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  1. #71
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    When I'm getting to know someone I ask about their passions, aspirations, etc. Not what they did last weekend.
    LOL, I think you'd get if you started like that with me. I'm interested in those things as well, but I don't immediately start that way. And it's funny because those things tend to come out (as SciVo mentions) in the "idle" chat. I mean, in the course of what someone did last weekend they tend to reveal their passion for gardening and their dream of opening a bed and breakfast, ya know? Or that they're wine enthusiasts or have sky diving as a hobby. I find they naturally come out over the course of conversation.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #72
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    From what you're saying I'm getting mixed message. If I were to walk up to you and we've had no prior contact and say "I've been watching you over the last few months, but purposefully not interacting with you" and then launch into an abstract topic of your absolute delight then you are doing that Fe thing that Orangey mentioned. You didn't need the "deep" interaction in order for you to be interested. It's just a matter of content with you, not the interaction itself.
    Eh, I don't see the contradiction. She said that during interaction, she would care about the "deep" issues like the person's deepest feelings and secrets and what have you. Now she's saying that any conversation that is devoid of such content would be uninteresting to her, like the elevator "how about that weather" type conversations. What she'd ideally prefer, it seems, is interesting conversation that is broached without any such meaningless introductions.

    You're saying that this is sending a mixed message because if she's not interested in the interaction for interaction's sake, which she seems not to be if she maintains that cordiality in the form of "how are you" questions is meaningless, then any conversations that she does find interesting must be interesting because of their content, and not because of the interaction for its own sake. I find that she is not sending a mixed message, however, because she never said that an interesting, "deep" conversation was interesting independent of the content. On the contrary, she said that such conversations would be interesting precisely because of the content (finding out their feelings, talking about secrets, all that junk).

    And she never said that the type of Fe interaction I was describing didn't resonate with her because it placed content in a higher value position than the interaction itself, she said instead that she could not find such conversations interesting because they don't include personal content.
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  3. #73
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    LOL, I think you'd get if you started like that with me. I'm interested in those things as well, but I don't immediately start that way.
    Yes, I do have issues speaking with most people. Which is why I don't talk to many people. *shrug*

  4. #74
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SciVo View Post
    I've found that food and music are highly personal topics of superficial conversation, with infinite variation and real emotional significance. People love to share their favorite recipes, how it went with the new dish that they tried the other day, their favorite kind of music, how the bands were this weekend at the club, etc.
    Haha, that would be highly weird, for me at least, to encounter someone I know casually in an elevator or a hallway and start asking them, "so hey, what's your favorite music?" Or, even better, "what did you cook last night?"

    In fact, I wouldn't even call that interesting. I probably care even less about that than I do about whatever contrived answer they were going to give me about how their weekend was.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #75
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Haha, that would be highly weird, for me at least, to encounter someone I know casually in an elevator or a hallway and start asking them, "so hey, what's your favorite music?" Or, even better, "what did you cook last night?"

    In fact, I wouldn't even call that interesting. I probably care even less about that then I do about whatever contrived answer they were going to give me about how their weekend was.
    Lol, same. What you cooked last night? That was an example I used in another thread of what I definitely don't like to discuss. :zzz:

  6. #76
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I don't think SciVo was suggesting approaching it as a first conversation in the elevator. More that if you are talking with a colleague or something, you learn a lot about them through hearing about their interests/lack thereof regarding food and music. I love talking about that sort of thing and it often does evolve into something deeper.

    I understand wanting to go right in for the meaningful stuff, but what LA is suggesting sounds to me like the emotional equivalent of people a person who insists on foregoing all courtship rituals or foreplay and is surprised when the other party isn't ready to have sex on demand. Maybe I have misunderstood, but I'm unlikely to tell anyone my thoughts or talk about anything meaningful if they cannot even put up with hearing about something that semi-matters to me for a couple of minutes and I can do the same with them. And if you want to forego all of the conventional conversational rituals, it does have consequences. I suppose it's a matter of weighing your boredom or inconvenience (which wouldn't have to be either depending on how you look at it) against the social benefits and possibility of getting to understand people better.

  7. #77
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Eh, I don't see the contradiction. She said that during interaction, she would care about the "deep" issues like the person's deepest feelings and secrets and what have you. Now she's saying that any conversation that is devoid of such content would be uninteresting to her, like the elevator "how about that weather" type conversations. What she'd ideally prefer, it seems, is interesting conversation that is broached without any such meaningless introductions.

    You're saying that this is sending a mixed message because if she's not interested in the interaction for interaction's sake, which she seems not to be if she maintains that cordiality in the form of "how are you" questions is meaningless, then any conversations that she does find interesting must be interesting because of their content, and not because of the interaction for its own sake. I find that she is not sending a mixed message, however, because she never said that an interesting, "deep" conversation was interesting independent of the content. On the contrary, she said that such conversations would be interesting precisely because of the content (finding out their feelings, talking about secrets, all that junk).

    And she never said that the type of Fe interaction I was describing didn't resonate with her because it placed content in a higher value position than the interaction itself, she said instead that she could not find such conversations interesting because they don't necessarily include personal content.
    The reason why I found the statements contradictory is because to me the interaction is still the bolded part, it's just a matter of how she prefers to enter into the interaction. She begins in media res, I may start at the "so how's the weather" (btw, that annoys me too, but once again I'm willing to play along) in order to get to those other parts.

    And then we moved onto the matter of personal content, which for me is littered throughout the interaction, but for her seems to be concentrated in a few key topics. I still see how we're looking for the same information, just differently.

    Another reason why I'm not quite understanding/see a contradiction is take those brief encounters we mentioned. I made a distinction between people I interact with casually and those I have more sustained contact with. From what I'm understanding LA to be saying is that if she's in line with Jane Doe in the grocery store, if she can't find out those meaty parts of her then she's not interested. I say I don't need those meaty parts to be interested and satisfied, casually and even if I were interested, I have a good idea of how to get my interest satsified but I would feel like that would be getting too personal too quickly and that's when I have some sort of Fe block, like I'm overstepping my boundaries with someone I don't know well. It still seems like a Fe block, with LA only it's manifesting in "I'm not interested." Now if this is a person I interact with frequently, like at work, I need to know them in more depth because our relationship is different. LA are you saying you wouldn't be interested in any case if you couldn't get to the meaty parts? To me these two scenarios are in different categories so of course I wouldn't respond the same way.

    Hey, and I'm also saying I got slightly confused in what you said so if I'm not addressing your points that's why.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  8. #78
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I understand wanting to go right in for the meaningful stuff, but what LA is suggesting sounds to me like the emotional equivalent of people a person who insists on foregoing all courtship rituals or foreplay and is surprised when the other party isn't ready to have sex on demand.
    That's a rather interesting comparison....

    You've got it completely wrong. I simply said I am not interested when people ask how my weekend is or how I'm doing that day, because they are not really interested in these matters and are only going through the motions. Now if they actually wanted to know and were interested in my replies, that's a completely different story.

    Maybe I have misunderstood
    Yes, you have.

    And if you want to forego all of the conventional conversational rituals, it does have consequences. I suppose it's a matter of weighing your boredom or inconvenience (which wouldn't have to be either depending on how you look at it) against the social benefits and possibility of getting to understand people better.
    I'm not terribly concerned about the "consequences," actually. Which would be that the people would no longer approach me for these types of conversations. This is a benefit, IMO. I don't have to talk about what someone did last weekend in order to understand them better. I've understood people pretty well thus far without having to do so.

  9. #79
    flowing quietly by River's Avatar
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    "What did you do last weekend?"

    "oh, barbecue with the family <bla bla bla>. Saw event horizon with my eldest"

    "Oh, i found that film rather intriguing. What did you think of the concepts presented?" (or, even sneakier, mention a few then slowly branch it out)

    Its a few lines, if they don't bite you waste a short amount of time. If they do, interesting conversation. Difficult?


    As for elevators... A few remarks about the endless fascination with saving time... comment on the surroundings but leaves an opening. I've had several short, interesting exchanges in similar situations.

    Naturally, with limited time the depth is finate. Prefferable to discussion of just the weather, however.

  10. #80
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    And if you want to forego all of the conventional conversational rituals, it does have consequences. I suppose it's a matter of weighing your boredom or inconvenience (which wouldn't have to be either depending on how you look at it) against the social benefits and possibility of getting to understand people better.
    Or against the possibility of signifying something that you didn't intend to signify (e.g., that you don't respect the person, that you don't take them seriously, that they aren't worth your time, so on). The consequences of ignoring my professor, for example, would be that they wouldn't trust me, or that they would see me as uninterested in maintaining collegial relationships and therefore expendable. After all, what prof wants graduate students who have no chance of maintaining their connection with them once they're full blown, accomplished professors themselves?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

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