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  1. #51
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    What Orangey said.

    Asking these questions are ways to show that I actually truly do care. It's a way of testing the waters. People then can go as shallow or deep as they like with it after that. What would you prefer for people to do?

  2. #52
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Yes! All of that is reflective of me. The crowbar comparison is funny, but apt.

    And it's not that I have no interest in the person I'm talking to. It's just that I emotionally invest differently depending on how close a person is to me.
    Oh and there's the reverse crowbar which is when I begin the whole process of prying (please think of that word neutrally) by starting about myself.

    "You won't believe what happened to me!"
    "Let me tell you..."
    "The end is near, the end is near! Blah blah blah."

    Once again, you can possibly run afoul of the "It's all about me" problem, when people misinterpret your prompt for them to self-disclose via your self-disclosure.

    What I do notice with most FJs (I don't know where TPs fall in their usage of Fe) is social practicality. For right now, the best way I can describe it is knowing which side you bread is buttered on, generally knowing where you stand in relation to others/where they stand in relation to you, and the group dynamics involved to move you from point A to point T. I feel like when I'm talking to other FJs (doesn't matter if they're SFJs or NFJs) who share the same concepts of social relationships that I do, there's less explaining why mechanics of this and that is important than I do with other types.

    I will never forget when I started that thread about my friend's who was basically told in so many words to get a piece of cake for a director that is not her boss and how demeaning she felt that was. Many people were like, what's the big deal, get the cake, like it was just about a piece of cake. I understood why she felt that way (I'm sure others did too) and why that was such an affront to her and she felt like a bimbo, like it was 1955 or something.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  3. #53
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Well then it's not a function of the phrases themselves, but rather the attitude of the person employing them. I do not have a problem with someone asking me how my day/weekend was, even if they don't expect a full account of how it really was. The act of reaching out to me is enough to tell me that they at least care enough to make the effort. Small talk, to me, is unnecessary conversation for the sake of conversation. Like when someone just has this need to talk even though there is no exigence that calls for talking. In those cases, people start to talk about B.S. like the weather or celebrity news, and it just gets boring.
    It's absolutely the attitude. The way protean mentioned it, it seemed like the "going through the motions" kind of prompts that people try to engage me in when I go to work in the morning. I know these people don't really care about the responses to my questions.

    Even between my friends and I, we often start out conversations with the typical "how are you doing?" It signifies a sort of politeness that lets us all know that we're operating on the same level of respect. In tense and competitive situations, that kind of respect starts to mean a lot.
    Ha, with my close friends, I don't start off with any kind of introduction. If I have something to say or I want to ask them something, I just dive right in.

  4. #54
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    The way protean mentioned it, it seemed like the "going through the motions" kind of prompts that people try to engage me in when I go to work in the morning. I know these people don't really care about the responses to my questions.
    Right, but then you have to ask yourself, should they care? And if so, why? And if they don't really have any reason to care, would you rather have them give you the cold shoulder, or would you rather have them say something pleasant, even if it's emotionally meaningless? I'd prefer the latter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Ha, with my close friends, I don't start off with any kind of introduction. If I have something to say or I want to ask them something, I just dive right in.
    I am around a lot of strongly Fe type folks . I had one friend tell me, when I turned down her offer of bowling one night, that instead of simply saying that I don't feel like it, I should have come up with some legitimate excuse for why I couldn't come, even if it wasn't true. Maybe she is unhinged. I don't know, hehe.

    And proteanmix, I never encountered that thread about the cake, but after reading the scenario, I can certainly agree that it was weird for the other guy to ask for cake. It's like at this one job that I had in college. My duties were to edit video programs for the city broadcasting network (so stupid stuff like local sports games, city council meetings, etc.,), and on one occasion the station director asked me to get him coffee. I balked because of what it would have signified, appearance wise, about my gender, position, and all sorts of other things. He didn't ask me again. Now, one could say that I was being oversensitive, but I was the only female that worked there, I was busy doing my job, and there were at least three other people equally as busy as I was. Why did he ask me?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #55
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Right, but then you have to ask yourself, should they care? And if so, why? And if they don't really have any reason to care, would you rather have them give you the cold shoulder, or would you rather have them say something pleasant, even if it's emotionally meaningless? I'd prefer the latter.
    They don't have to care. Saying nothing at all would be preferable, actually. I rather enjoy silence unless something more imperative needs to be said. Being "pleasant" doesn't mean much to me. I know, I'm an Fe failure.

  6. #56
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    You're still going on about this one ? Man you got issues
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #57
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    ...I balked because of what it would have signified, appearance wise, about my gender, position, and all sorts of other things. He didn't ask me again. Now, one could say that I was being oversensitive, but I was the only female that worked there, I was busy doing my job, and there were at least three other people equally as busy as I was. Why did he ask me?
    Yeah, and maybe other people can chime in, but a lot of my Fe is centered around that type of thinking as well. I don't find that oversensitive, that's the social awareness I was talking about, but that may not even be Fe. I know I'm not oblivious to how things come across and how they can be interpreted and the ramifications of the interpretation(s).
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  8. #58
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    They don't have to care. Saying nothing at all would be preferable, actually. I rather enjoy silence unless something more imperative needs to be said. Being "pleasant" doesn't mean much to me. I know, I'm an Fe failure.
    I don't know. If I get onto the elevator going to my department, say, and I encounter one of the professors on my committee, I expect to be acknowledged. It gets to be one of those things where, yeah, I know they don't really care how I'm doing (or at least I assume as much because I don't really care how they're doing, and they don't know me well enough to care anyways), but it means a LOT more if they don't say anything at all. It is disrespect.
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  9. #59
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I don't know. If I get onto the elevator going to my department, say, and I encounter one of the professors on my committee, I expect to be acknowledged. It gets to be one of those things where, yeah, I know they don't really care how I'm doing (or at least I assume as much because I don't really care how they're doing, and they don't know me well enough to care anyways), but it means a LOT more if they don't say anything at all. It is disrespect.
    If I know the person somewhat well, a simple acknowledgment like "Hey," is fine. All the queries like "What are you doing this weekend? and "Did you hear the thunder last night?" are highly unnecessary, to me. But that's just me; idle chatter bugs me to no end.

  10. #60
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    If I know the person somewhat well, a simple acknowledgment like "Hey," is fine. All the rest of the queries like "What are you doing this weekend? and "Did you hear the thunder last night?" are highly unnecessary, to me. But that's just me; idle chatter bugs me to no end.
    I agree, if the chatting lasts too long, or is about stupid, uninteresting things (like the thunder last night). But that's adding a new dimension- length of conversation. The longer the conversation, the greater the risk of getting bored and having to endure stupid time-killer topics. I of course like to keep it brief, but the initial cordiality is needed, especially in those types of collegial relationships.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

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