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  1. #41
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    People will be surprised by the info I mention to them years later, they say "You remember that?"
    I do that a lot. Even if I could care less about the person. I remember what they say to me, almost verbatim. As you can imagine, this can work well for you when you want to make someone look stupid.
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  2. #42
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    i absolutely care, and i care intensely in that moment. my whole world in that moment is that one other person and as long as they are talking about something real, i am immensely into it and them
    Perhaps I didn't explain it well, but part of what I was trying to talk about was this temporal aspect of interaction. In the moment, I do care enough to continue conversation (and enjoy it immensely). If I didn't, or if it was just small talk, I could care less and probably wouldn't engage in interaction.

    My point was that I don't need a personal history or an inventory of special feelings racked up in order to feel like I care enough about a person to have an enjoyable conversation with them. I thought that was Fe, but perhaps I am completely wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.
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  3. #43
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I do that a lot. Even if I could care less about the person. I remember what they say to me, almost verbatim. As you can imagine, this can work well for you when you want to make someone look stupid.
    Lol, yes. That too.

    But I question if what I do is Fe, or a combination of high Ni + Fe-Ti, or something that can't be parsed with functions at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    this is insightful and you get an A for effort but i don't recognize this as Fe, for me, at all. i absolutely care, and i care intensely in that moment. my whole world in that moment is that one other person and as long as they are talking about something real, i am immensely into it and them, but if it's too much work, or they are small-talkers, i'm gonna be nice but go find someone more interesting to talk to.
    Hmmm...you must be my subtype of INFJ.

  4. #44
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Perhaps I didn't explain it well, but part of what I was trying to talk about was this temporal aspect of interaction. In the moment, I do care enough to continue conversation (and enjoy it immensely). If I didn't, or if it was just small talk, I could care less and probably wouldn't engage in interaction.

    My point was that I don't need a personal history or an inventory of special feelings racked up in order to feel like I care enough about a person to have an enjoyable conversation with them. I thought that was Fe, but perhaps I am completely wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.
    hmm. i don't either. when you have a half hour conversation with someone you obviously can't get their entire history.

    but this is different than what you said earlier, and i understood you perfectly, i thought. Fe seems like it's 'going through the motions' to be nice. that's kind-of what the literature says. but for me, it's really genuine. not just the motions. anyone can be nice. if i'm talking intently to you, i really dig you in that moment, and want the best for you, and want to find out about you. i'm not thinking anything bad about you at all probably. it's very deep. i think deeper than most people converse. i lean toward you, i hate to have our attention drawn away. i want to really get into it with you. that's me anyway.

    and how can you ever be wrong? you're intp for gosh sakes!
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  5. #45
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Lol, yes. That too.

    But I question if what I do is Fe, or a combination of high Ni + Fe-Ti, or something that can't be parsed with functions at all.


    Hmmm...you must be my subtype of INFJ.
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  6. #46
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    but this is different than what you said earlier, and i understood you perfectly, i thought. Fe seems like it's 'going through the motions' to be nice. that's kind-of what the literature says. but for me, it's really genuine. not just the motions. anyone can be nice. if i'm talking intently to you, i really dig you in that moment, and want the best for you, and want to find out about you. i'm not thinking anything bad about you at all probably. it's very deep. i think deeper than most people converse. i lean toward you, i hate to have our attention drawn away. i want to really get into it with you. that's me anyway.
    I do think Orangey's example can apply to many FJs, if not you and I. My mother and sister are ESFJ and ENFJ, respectively, and they both have this Oprah-esque style of relating.

  7. #47
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    RE the temporal aspect of Fe: I agree with orangey about the temporal aspect of Fe now that she clarified. Sometimes I think when people start talking about this, if they identify with it, there's a false association with shallowness or superficiality. I don't deny that in most of my casual interactions I can coast on that. It's like vodka and red bull for me, I enjoy it.

    I don't extend that temporal feeling towards people that are close to me and that I care about. I make a distinction about the depth and quality of the relationship with people I get real with. That same shot that carried me through in casually isn't satisfying in a more intimate relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    i can try. i am an aux Fe and i'm still fairly new to mbti. i just focus on people. my focus is people and i notice their body language so i can tell how they are feeling. i subconsciously take in their inflection or tone to clue me in to how they might be feeling. what they say means something and i while i might forget or not hear details of what someone is saying, i am taking the essence of them in on a deeper level and just feeling them almost. i don't know why i use it. by now, i am used to how it feels. i align myself with the person i am speaking with, or interacting with, and i focus all of my energy on them. i can completely tune everything else out, and do. i notice nothing else. you have my complete attention, when i am at my norm or best, that is. it is very trustworthy for me, but sometimes i can use intuition too loosely and make false assumptions with Fe. i feel it very deeply. i use Te too (aux/tert) but it feels efficient and methodical and tiring.
    This but add I have a general patience towards small talk.

    I like "small talk" with another experienced Fe-user because it's not really small talk/chit chat at all, it's very much like superior volleying skills. I think most people are afraid of small talk because they don't know how to use it effectively to deepen bonds, they just think of it as talking about the weather and something to dread when getting in a elevator with another person. Using small talk as an example, when I'm Fe-ing I make the subject matter something general that everyone can talk about or join in on, which some people view as vapid. I mean think about the reasons you don't like small talk. I guess this is why I'm just over talking about Fe with people on the forum because the mechanisms through which Fe generally works are always bashed to bits.

    I really think Fidelia had the simplest way of describing Fe. How do you make people feel comfortable? It seems like the same things that make people feel comfortable, i.e. small talk, also makes them feel uncomfortable. I mean take these phrases I use daily:

    "So how are you today?"
    "How was your weekend?"
    "How do you feel?"
    "I like your _______"
    "You look great today!"
    "Oh, don't worry about it, I think you did fine."
    "What do you think about _______?"
    "What are you doing this weekend?/Let's hang out"
    "Are you OK?"

    Notice how everything I wrote is basically a crowbar. Either you're receptive or you're not and if you're not I'm that annoying Fe-person who won't leave you alone. For me, Fe attempts to find commonalities between people to help us recognize our similarities and I need an in. My in is to be interested in other people.

    i can manipulate with it, sometimes unintentionally. sometimes i can think i know better than someone what they need, especially someone not in tune with their feelings/emotions. then i can use Fe subtley to manipulate someone into a course of action. i didn't really know i did this until i thought about it after i discovered the Fe function and reading about it on here. i try not to do this anymore, but it can be almost a habit sometimes. not majorly, but in little ways.
    Yeah this too.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  8. #48
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Yes! All of that is reflective of me. The crowbar comparison is funny, but apt.

    And it's not that I have no interest in the person I'm talking to. It's just that I emotionally invest differently depending on how close a person is to me.

  9. #49
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I really think Fidelia had the simplest way of describing Fe. How do you make people feel comfortable? It seems like the same things that make people feel comfortable, i.e. small talk, also makes them feel uncomfortable. I mean take these phrases I use daily:

    "So how are you today?"
    "How was your weekend?"
    "How do you feel?"
    "I like your _______"
    "You look great today!"
    "Oh, don't worry about it, I think you did fine."
    "What do you think about _______?"
    "What are you doing this weekend?/Let's hang out"
    "Are you OK?"
    I hate all of these phrases, with a passion.

    Unless I get the sense that the person really does care, when someone approaches me in this way, I'll give a quick reply and roll my eyes nearly out of my head when they're gone.

  10. #50
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I hate all of these phrases, with a passion.

    Unless I get the sense that the person really does care, when someone approaches me in this way, I'll give a quick reply and roll my eyes nearly out of my head when they're gone.
    Well then it's not a function of the phrases themselves, but rather the attitude of the person employing them. I do not have a problem with someone asking me how my day/weekend was, even if they don't expect a full account of how it really was. The act of reaching out to me is enough to tell me that they at least care enough to make the effort. Small talk, to me, is unnecessary conversation for the sake of conversation. Like when someone just has this need to talk even though there is no exigence that calls for talking. In those cases, people start to talk about B.S. like the weather or celebrity news, and it just gets boring.

    Even between my friends and I, we often start out conversations with the typical "how are you doing?" It signifies a sort of politeness that lets us all know that we're operating on the same level of respect. In tense and competitive situations, that kind of respect starts to mean a lot.
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