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  1. #31
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    From what I can see, Fe is more concerned with making others feel comfortable, even when you'd rather not, and it expects others to do the same and gets on them when they don't. Fi is more individualistic and about being true to yourself and giving others the space to do the same. To Fe users, that can seem moody/selfish or uncaring at times. To Fi users, Fe seems a little pushy and cohearsive/manipulative.
    I suppose this is the simplest way to explain Fe that doesn't bring a bunch of assumptions and stereotypes about how it manifests itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Somehow I get the feeling that Fe is like how I act when I'm a bit drunk- I respond nicely and socialize in an active and friendly way, but I don't actually care (in a personal sense) about the other person. Meaning, I like them just fine in the context in which we are conversing, and I respect them as people, but I just don't really care about them on a deeper level. Not that I might not care about them on a deeper, more personal level in the future, or that I don't think that they deserve that kind of caring, but I just don't care about them like that at the moment. Yet, that doesn't stop me from engaging in some pretty wonderful conversations and interaction.
    I don't know what to say about on a deeper level part. The concept of there being billions of people on this planet and not being able to care about each one like they're a family member or friend does not escape me.

    I care about human rights and being treated with the respect and dignity all humans deserve by virtue of them being living creatures. I care about victims of natural disasters or people that are victims of circumstance (losing jobs because of the depression and the consequences of that), I care that Americans are dying of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, violent crimes, I care that there are genocides, and corrupt governments abusing their citizens, I care that there's a International Pillow Fight Day...I mean what do you mean when you say "deeply"? These are things that are on my radar, but do I care deeply as in they predominate my being? No, I care that I'm always late for work, deeply. I don't see a person on the subway or the person in the line in front of me and the grocery store and get overwhelmed with feelings of abiding love for them, I don't think I'd be very functional. So I'm not sure what you mean when you see not care for them deeply and what the relation of that is to Fe, could you explain?
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #32
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I mean that I don't care about the other person in the sense that I don't know (or want to know) about their deepest feelings, secrets, or what have you. I just enjoy and respect them as a person during the moments of interaction, and I go from there. If I want to get to know them on a deeper level afterward, I will. But that's not required for me to be nice and enthusiastic during interaction (though for me, as an INTP, alcohol is almost always required, or else I'm not open to anybody, close or not ).
    But I do, I really do. That is my main motivation. People will be surprised by the info I mention to them years later, they say "You remember that?" This is why I loathe small talk and I'm not good at it at all; I want to go deeper than that and it's sometimes too much for people.

    Anyway, this is clearly an individual thing since the other FJs said they can relate to what you wrote.

  3. #33
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    But I do, I really do. That is my main motivation. People will be surprised by the info I mention to them years later, they say "You remember that?" This is why I loathe small talk and I'm not good at it at all; I want to go deeper than that and it's sometimes too much for people.

    Anyway, this is clearly an individual thing since the other FJs said they can relate to what you said.
    Everyone cares about the person he speaks too, even Fe users. But you need to draw a line somewhere cause you cant be Jesus. And either you are not INFJ or you havent found out yet what it means to preserve ones own sanity.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #34
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Everyone cares about the person he speaks too, even Fe users. But you need to draw a line somewhere cause you cant be Jesus.
    Speak for yourself.

    Kidding.

    I'm not trying to be Jesus. That's why I began "When I am Fe-ing..." Because I don't, most of the time. I'm very introverted so I don't do excessive socializing. When I do put forth the effort to engage someone, it is not shallow.

    And either you are not INFJ or you havent found out yet what it means to preserve ones own sanity.
    I've noticed there are INFJ subtypes. But that's another thread.

    When you figure out how to preserve sanity, let me know.

  5. #35
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I maybe an old bad fart that's for sure, but I am maybe socializing more heavily too yes.

    + I am an asshole.

    So what did I want to say ? I have no clue, you do go on here
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #36
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    But I do, I really do. That is my main motivation. People will be surprised by the info I mention to them years later, they say "You remember that?" This is why I loathe small talk and I'm not good at it at all; I want to go deeper than that and it's sometimes too much for people.

    Anyway, this is clearly an individual thing since the other FJs said they can relate to what you wrote.
    This may be a Fe-dom vs. a Fe-aux difference, of course with the usual caveat that I can only speak for myself. Since I cast my net wider, my feelings (I guess if you want to call it Fe I don't know anymore) are more generalized and diffuse.

    When I worked at National Air and Space Museum and I would deal with literally hundreds of people per day, I could not get deep down in it with every person I came across. Now that I'm at an office job, I can afford to get deeper with people if I want because it's fewer people and that can happen. Do I want to get deep down in it with all those people? Not really, but the ones I have decided to do that with I have. In a more one on one situation with people I have a genuine relationship with it's concentrated and no longer diffuse.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  7. #37
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I don't know what to say about on a deeper level part. The concept of there being billions of people on this planet and not being able to care about each one like they're a family member or friend does not escape me.

    I care about human rights and being treated with the respect and dignity all humans deserve by virtue of them being living creatures. I care about victims of natural disasters or people that are victims of circumstance (losing jobs because of the depression and the consequences of that), I care that Americans are dying of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, violent crimes, I care that there are genocides, and corrupt governments abusing their citizens, I care that there's a International Pillow Fight Day...I mean what do you mean when you say "deeply"? These are things that are on my radar, but do I care deeply as in they predominate my being? No, I care that I'm always late for work, deeply. I don't see a person on the subway or the person in the line in front of me and the grocery store and get overwhelmed with feelings of abiding love for them, I don't think I'd be very functional. So I'm not sure what you mean when you see not care for them deeply and what the relation of that is to Fe, could you explain?
    All I mean to say is that knowing a person in the most intimate way, and having a personally significant relationship is not necessary to interacting in an enthusiastic way. I don't need to feel that the person is my best friend, or that the person really really likes me, or that the person has something in common with me and is therefore special in my estimation in order to have good interaction. Perhaps I am mis-characterizing Fi and Fe, but that's what I thought (at least as regards my own behavior) Fe looked like.
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  8. #38
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    This may be a Fe-dom vs. a Fe-aux difference, of course with the usual caveat that I can only speak for myself. Since I cast my net wider, my feelings (I guess if you want to call it Fe I don't know anymore) are more generalized and diffuse.
    Yes, I think that's part of it. I think Orangey's example applies well to ExFJs. After all, they are the mixers and socialites. But, I do know IxFJs that seem considerably "lighter" than I do. So what I said may just apply to some INFJs, or only me. Lighter is probably not the best word to use, but I hope you understand what I mean.

  9. #39
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    All I mean to say is that knowing a person in the most intimate way, and having a personally significant relationship is not necessary to interacting in an enthusiastic way. I don't need to feel that the person is my best friend, or that the person really really likes me, or that the person has something in common with me and is therefore special in my estimation in order to have good interaction. Perhaps I am mis-characterizing Fi and Fe, but that's what I thought (at least as regards my own behavior) Fe looked like.
    No this sounds right for me, thank you for clarifying. I can shoot the breeze and have a good time with people I just met and will never see again and that interaction is enjoyable to me as well.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  10. #40
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I have been really watching my wife(ENFJ) and how she interacts and I am really starting to understand Fe and what it is. Fe is the ability to drive emotions into others. If you hurt them they are experts at making you feel bad. Its like they drive feelings in you to try to make you want to do something, not always something for you, but to kinda light a fire under your ass. The things is that they go for feeling, but stop at that, there is no making it up to Fi or with Si. With my wife she goes for making me feel bad, but wont allow me to do anything to make it up, because she wants me to do what I want to do. Its like I just want you to feel this way about what you did, but I wants you to continue to do it anyway because thats what you wanted to do.

    Its like they blow up because of something but wont actually put there foot down and physically take control of a situation. Hopefully this does not offend any ENFJ/INFJ types. It is just what I have seen.
    haha. she sounds so enfj. my neighbor is enfj. i have to take her in small doses. she is the neighborhood watchdog. not that they all are, mind you. but definitely multi-tasker extraordinaire.

    maybe she just wants to vent and make you understand what she's feeling? my istp husband can't help but try to jump right to fixing it. he gets what i'm saying before i'm done ranting, and has already used his Ti to come up with a solution. so when i stop to take a breath, he switches in to solution mode. but i don't want him to fix it. i want him to simply understand and validate. that's it. i can fix it myself after i vent it. after i vent it, i can move to understand it. all i want from him is to actively listen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    So tell us the essence of it. I'd love to hear from Fe-users how they experience Fe, how they apply it, how it is part of them, what makes you use it, why do you rely on it and how, what the depth of Fe is and how you experience that depth, how it makes you as a person feel to use it etc.
    i can try. i am an aux Fe and i'm still fairly new to mbti. i just focus on people. my focus is people and i notice their body language so i can tell how they are feeling. i subconsciously take in their inflection or tone to clue me in to how they might be feeling. what they say means something and i while i might forget or not hear details of what someone is saying, i am taking the essence of them in on a deeper level and just feeling them almost. i don't know why i use it. by now, i am used to how it feels. i align myself with the person i am speaking with, or interacting with, and i focus all of my energy on them. i can completely tune everything else out, and do. i notice nothing else. you have my complete attention, when i am at my norm or best, that is. it is very trustworthy for me, but sometimes i can use intuition too loosely and make false assumptions with Fe. i feel it very deeply. i use Te too (aux/tert) but it feels efficient and methodical and tiring. using Fe feels intense and personal. i am fatigued after spending a few hours with someone one-on-one. even in a crowd i single someone out for one-on-one conversation because i hate small talk.

    i can manipulate with it, sometimes unintentionally. sometimes i can think i know better than someone what they need, especially someone not in tune with their feelings/emotions. then i can use Fe subtley to manipulate someone into a course of action. i didn't really know i did this until i thought about it after i discovered the Fe function and reading about it on here. i try not to do this anymore, but it can be almost a habit sometimes. not majorly, but in little ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Somehow I get the feeling that Fe is like how I act when I'm a bit drunk- I respond nicely and socialize in an active and friendly way, but I don't actually care (in a personal sense) about the other person. Meaning, I like them just fine in the context in which we are conversing, and I respect them as people, but I just don't really care about them on a deeper level. Not that I might not care about them on a deeper, more personal level in the future, or that I don't think that they deserve that kind of caring, but I just don't care about them like that at the moment. Yet, that doesn't stop me from engaging in some pretty wonderful conversations and interaction.
    this is insightful and you get an A for effort but i don't recognize this as Fe, for me, at all. i absolutely care, and i care intensely in that moment. my whole world in that moment is that one other person and as long as they are talking about something real, i am immensely into it and them, but if it's too much work, or they are small-talkers, i'm gonna be nice but go find someone more interesting to talk to.
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