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View Poll Results: Do ENFJs have an unmatched "double pedagogue" relationship with INTPs?

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  • Yes

    3 60.00%
  • No

    1 20.00%
  • Yes, but other pedagogue pairings (e.g., ESFP/ISTJ) have their own unique quirks

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  1. #1
    Member FlamingMask's Avatar
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    Post ENFJ relationship to INTP - DOUBLE pedagogue?! - Yet another ENFJ/INTP Thread

    So I have heard that ENFJs are the "pedagogues" of the world, meaning that they are particularly good teachers and/or are good at relating to people.

    I have also heard of the "pedagogue relationship," which is the relationship a person of a particular MBTI type has with the type that only shares their perceiving type. As I'm sure you realize, ENFJs and INTPs have this relationship, which is often seen as the ideal-mate relationship as well.

    I am posting this despite the disproportionate amount of both types in this forum, which could affect the responses. After all, when has that ever stopped anyone? (Answer: we don't know, because it did)

    Here are my questions:

    Does this make for a different pedagogical relationship because of the sheer inclination of ENFJs to act the teacher already? Do INTPs and ENFJs have a different connection, then, say, ESTJs and ISFPs? Is the fact that the word pedagogue has been used to describe ENFJs merely coincidental, with no impact on the ENFJ/INTP dynamic?

    Hit me up with some answers.
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  2. #2
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    I would assume all pedagogue interactions are different simply because all the types are different. What ESTJs and ISFPs need to learn from each other and how is far different than what ENFJs and INTPs need to learn from each other and how. With an ENFJ, maybe on the surface this pedagogue role can seem very visible as they actively take joy, pleasure, and responsibility in being in that role, whereas other pedagogue relationships simply may be such because of how the interactions play out; it may not be a conscious desire, it just happens that way.

    I don't really put much too much stock in those role/relationship pairings, but they're interesting from hypothetical standpoints. Personally, xNFJs in general...I think their emotional depth can seem intimidating, yet fascinating, to me at times. I think they'd want someone who is better equipped with tools to appreciate and relate to that, where I, and my stupid Ti, would be the equivalent of the awkward, fumbly doctor with cold hands asking too many stupid questions. I'd feel my shallowness in that area would eventually be resented, and that's the last thing I think my partner would want to feel.



  3. #3
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    As an aside, it's threads like this that make me wonder what the hell these romantic-type matching people are talking about.



  4. #4
    Member FlamingMask's Avatar
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    Yeah I dunno what to say on that topic either. This is a very speculative thread but specifically I was really wondering if INTPs can take all the teaching and mentoring. On one level I find ENFJs very attractive but at the same time I like my individuality and ability to come up with ideas on my own.

    Maybe the two aren't mutually exclusive, but it might make for some really difficult interaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I think they'd want someone who is better equipped with tools to appreciate and relate to that, where I, and my stupid Ti, would be the equivalent of the awkward, fumbly doctor with cold hands asking too many stupid questions. I'd feel my shallowness in that area would eventually be resented, and that's the last thing I think my partner would want to feel.
    I think you put it very nicely here.
    I (89%) N (88%) T (88%) P (56%)

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  5. #5
    Senior Member Koocoomoo's Avatar
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    My brother is an ENFJ and my other brother is an INTP and he's always talking to hi like they're in a classroom and the INTP is the dumb student and needs to be taught.
    It's actually quite hilarious because the INTP is much smarter than the ENFJ but he lets him do his thing to feel special - though he does get very annoyed.

    Painfully Bipolar

  6. #6
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    In theory.. ENFJs love teaching. INTPs love learning. School is all about learning. Perfect matches all around, eh?

    NOT!

    INTPs often end up learning on their own because there is too much BS from both sides, and schools and teachers often become too obsessed with trying to take credit for the spark or for the INTP becoming who they are (or "growing" or "maturing") when they haven't done shit to help. Also, rather than being a place for accelerated learning or for tilting the brain to it's maximum capacity, schools are a place to indoctrinate students with BS, and all those teachers end up caring about is pushing their way in to have some trite played out "miraculous change" happen (that they can then take credit for). Just teach the damn class already. But no, now they are sad and in low spirits because they aren't getting anything out of the deal.

    ENFJs and INTPs are often paired together as great matches, but so are ENTJs and INTPs. And what needs to be noticed is that this pairing is related to business environments, and in that environment a compatible pairing of an INTP with an ENTJ is actually much stronger.

    I don't think the ENFJ-INTP pairing is a good one, but if it's working for you, then don't let me get in the way.

    On a personal note, I find ENFJs annoying. Sure, the women are sometimes attractive, and I spend a lot of time staring at them, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Their drive to "teach" and to "help" is overwhelmingly annoying, seems selfish, seems forced upon me, and is really trying to take credit for things I already am, or already do (you don't "see the potential in me," you see me already doing it, or already on a path that will have it under control and you're trying to push your way in. Move on.). They are frequently people that try to change me, and more than that they try to change me to fit some status quo, or some bullshit ideal that I have no desire to subscribe to. All they do is get in the way. I'm sure a well-developed ENFJ would be less annoying with their tendencies, but at the end of the day it's just the same old thing. And they usually have nothing to teach me (that I want to learn, or that I want to learn from someone else).

    I would be more receptive to ENFJs if I didn't find them so annoying. ANNOYING. I wonder if other INTPs have this same experience.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    I have an ENFJ boyfriend and I could see our relationship as somewhat pedagogical. He knows a lot about things I don't like hard science, cooking, bikes, emotions, relating to people, mechanics film etc. I know more about other things and he listens and tells me how much I teach him new things all the time. but I don think generally it's more him as teacher me as student. Or more appropriately him as talking and me as listening. He is a very loud, chatty person. i'm a very quite person. He is an extravert that likes to teach and give out information. I'm an introvert who likes to take in information. A shallow as it sounds, because he's a very smart ENFJ it's almost like having a great series of books on tape. He gets to jabber away and I get to quietly contemplate.

    of course there are occasions that I get annoyed that he wont stop talking or he gets annoyed that I'm not participating enough in the conversation, but generally it's easily solved by mentioning it.

    As for the idea of ENFJs crushing the independence of thought for the ENFJ I don't find that to be true. I think what it is, just based of my experience with NFs, is that NFs have a hard time justifying why they value the things they value because it's (obviously) intuitive and emotional rather than practical or logical reasons that would be much easier to put into words. I know at least one person of every NF type and while they all are very opinionated and won't let those opinions go they are very reluctant to give reasons why. They don't like debate and tend even, at least the lead Feelers INFP and ENFJ, to seem hurt or saddened that you don't share your view. The sadness, compared to the more forceful reaction of say an ESFJ or ESTJ, is not as grating IMO. it's more annoy in INFPs who tend to brrod, but with the ENFJ he tends to move on quickly enough probably because his Fe wants harmony.

  8. #8
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I have an ENFJ boyfriend and I could see our relationship as somewhat pedagogical. He knows a lot about things I don't like hard science, cooking, bikes, emotions, relating to people, mechanics film etc. I know more about other things and he listens and tells me how much I teach him new things all the time. but I don think generally it's more him as teacher me as student. Or more appropriately him as talking and me as listening. He is a very loud, chatty person. i'm a very quite person. He is an extravert that likes to teach and give out information. I'm an introvert who likes to take in information. A shallow as it sounds, because he's a very smart ENFJ it's almost like having a great series of books on tape. He gets to jabber away and I get to quietly contemplate.

    of course there are occasions that I get annoyed that he wont stop talking or he gets annoyed that I'm not participating enough in the conversation, but generally it's easily solved by mentioning it.

    As for the idea of ENFJs crushing the independence of thought for the ENFJ I don't find that to be true. I think what it is, just based of my experience with NFs, is that NFs have a hard time justifying why they value the things they value because it's (obviously) intuitive and emotional rather than practical or logical reasons that would be much easier to put into words. I know at least one person of every NF type and while they all are very opinionated and won't let those opinions go they are very reluctant to give reasons why. They don't like debate and tend even, at least the lead Feelers INFP and ENFJ, to seem hurt or saddened that you don't share your view. The sadness, compared to the more forceful reaction of say an ESFJ or ESTJ, is not as grating IMO. it's more annoy in INFPs who tend to brrod, but with the ENFJ he tends to move on quickly enough probably because his Fe wants harmony.
    I constantly suspend judgement…
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I constantly suspend judgement…
    ?

  10. #10
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    Im an IN*P. if you are involved or see yourself getting swept into the politics at work, I gotta say, it is great pairing with them. I am not the kind of person who likes or cares for dominant role, I have my own plans but the enfj has her eyes set on being boss. I know working under her would be ideal because she is not a micro managing bitch, charming and fun to be around (she won`t needlessly create issues out of non issues). this aside, there are people at work who are also competing for the same role, we both see, her and I see the same short comings in these people and know, easily how things will play out, should these people make manager. anyway, that said, I do the dirty work by taking pot shots or create situations of failure that reveal and highlight the weak spots of these people and why they should be passed over as manager.

    now if these people show the intellect to rise above the challenges presented, and are capable, good for them. I misjudged and they are worthy, but if they fail, good fucking riddance.
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine. "
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