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  1. #51
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Generally speaking, if one--anyone, not just in this case--wants to continue the relationship, you confront with an open-handed "here's where I'm at, where are you at?" If one doesn't want to continue the relation but has to because of, say, working *closely* together, you confront with a view to laying down ground rules. If, on the other hand, the relationship is over, you get out, get clear, remove yourself from the toxic cloud that dying feeling leaves behind.

    You're angry, and this is a little bit were you're screwed, because you're almost never going to beat an ENFP at wriggling around an issue. They just do have the strength indeed the interest for endlessly bullshitting, skipping around an issue and trying to move it their way. And right when you're about to skewer them, they'll just skip off and play with someone else.

    Perhaps the thing to observe is, a lot of it is an act. We actually do destabilise them as much as they destablise us. But their sheilds are happy and smiley where ours are terse and hard, so from the outside it looks like they get away with it while we sit around being Mister Frowny Pants.

    Thus, you admit you're still hot for him, even if it's just angry hot, and be disappointed at how he can't internalise the opportunity to try out something deeper than he's used to, or you say fuckit and say goodbye.


    It still always takes two people working together to make something work, and they both have to choose. This guy spoiled his choice. I don't know if that's something you can confront someone about. I figure you are allowed to say things like, "Meh, don't talk to me, you made me feel bad and I don't want to know anymore" but not only is that a blame statement, it's not good confrontation material either.



    Oh, the irony of INTJs giving INTJs relationship advice, but it's either that or have to listen to the Fs knowing better than we do.

  2. #52
    Senior Member SciVo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Oh, the irony of INTJs giving INTJs relationship advice, but it's either that or have to listen to the Fs knowing better than we do.
    Well, sorry, but damn! I mean, seriously, you know?
    INFP ~ Fi/Ne/Ni/Te ~ 9-2-4 sp/so

  3. #53
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Oh, I do know.

    But there's still the fact that extraverted thinking is a bigger part of an INTJ. Even if we do get around to working out some kind of feeling stability, we still want to have that extra component, the bit where one knows what to do about the feeling. It doesn't feel right to simply emote.

  4. #54
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Oh, the irony of INTJs giving INTJs relationship advice.
    To the outsider, it's ultimate exemplar of the blind leading the blind.

    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    For those of you that do agree with confronting/approaching him about it, what would you say? Or how would you even start? Just curious...
    At this point, you have to clarify your objective 100%. So far it sounds like you're desperate to put this entire ordeal behind you. Good enough? Now we have a goal.

    The next part is acknowledging your challenges, which are probably: 1.) Anger; 2.) Remaining attraction the ENFP; 3.) Possible awkwardness at work; 4.) Loss of face; 5.) Retribution; 6.) Wanting the ENFP to admit his mistakes; 7.) Etc.

    Then analyze and gather the resources available to handle these challenges. Looking at these factors and what you've written, something may have to be solved on your own. I sincerely doubt that your ENFP would readily admit his lesser brilliant choices without a struggle -- he's just as stuck in his world of thoughts as you are in yours. In retrospect, it will be wise to keep back-up plans to quench your anger/retribution needs in a more mutually satisfactory way.

    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    No, he didn't bring it up because he thought i was annoyed. His conscience finally felt bad about how he cowardly let the whole thing fade rather than confront me like an adult and let me know he was no longer interested.
    You can't teach an old dog new tricks, yet you can perhaps guide him into performing the old tricks incredibly well. How about helping him out with his GGS? Use your creativity to think of more solutions. Criticize them only after you've conjured a handful.

    Lastly, remember that:

    1.) Square pegs do not fit into round holes. This is includes forcing someone to do something against their will. (Trust me, I've been there. You'll run into a dead-end and it might cause irreparable damage.)

    2.) You cannot stop the waves, but you can learn to surf. Discover what you can control: yourself and your decisions.

    3.) Focus more on managing your reactions and relying less on how other people will respond. Human nature can be rather unpredictable and chaotic. The opportunities will unveil themselves. Be patient and persistent.

    4.) If something doesn't work, keep your passion while changing your tactics. Don't keep retrying those futile methods. They're not working for a reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Generally speaking, if one--anyone, not just in this case--wants to continue the relationship, you confront with an open-handed "here's where I'm at, where are you at?"
    Bingo.

    Tell him how you feel about his actions and where you are without blaming him at all costs, as his fickle nature will only exacerbate. You might even say he's not required to respond to your concerns, but you would like for him to at least lend an open ear. Make your grievances sound fixable, in addition to clarifying that you are open to his side of the issue. He currently has a highly defensive barricade and you must take them down gently if you want to reach him. Fickleness is his way of protecting himself like emotional distancing is your personal shield. If neither individuals move past their defenses, then progress won't be made. That, I can guarantee.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
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  5. #55
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Side note: I've come to realize that an ENFP's actions are nearly impossible to predict or understand, since most of the time they don't know what they're going to do in the next 10 seconds.

    Now I'm convinced that 'F vs. T' only means 'gut feelings take priority over logic vs. logic takes priority over gut feelings' in decision making, there is not more of a correlation between F and sensitivity than T and the abovementioned quality.

    It seems EFP's particularly like to fuck around and toy with people. They flirt with others, and when it seems the victims have taken an interest in them, they throw them out like shit and move along. Is that fun OR WHAT?

    Am I generalizing here? Yes. Am I being irrational? A little, I guess. Do I care? Not for one second.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    You could just blow up into his face and unleash your emotions...yes, maybe it'll devolve into a shouting match, but sometimes these things are good/the only way to clear the air. Maybe if you are both enraged enough (a.k.a. show each other your weak emotional belly), you'll get out what's inside. ENFPs can be superdifficult to get to really open up. You are both Fi-ers after all. Maybe he'll be relieved at seeing some form of emotion? And at least you'll have gotten it out of your system.

    Coating really strong emotions with Te doesn't work for me...very unsatisfying.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    Side note: I've come to realize that an ENFP's actions are nearly impossible to predict or understand, since most of the time they don't know what they're going to do in the next 10 seconds.
    We're NPs, we don't exactly dive in blindly without considering everything. But yeh, it is true. I rarely work premeditated, just know the possibilities, try to understand the situation, and trust myself to adapt in the moment. I don't know what I'm going to do in the next 10 seconds, but I know the possibilities of what either of us might do quite well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    You could just blow up into his face and unleash your emotions...yes, maybe it'll devolve into a shouting match, but sometimes these things are good/the only way to clear the air. Maybe if you are both enraged enough (a.k.a. show each other your weak emotional belly), you'll get out what's inside. ENFPs can be superdifficult to get to really open up. You are both Fi-ers after all. Maybe he'll be relieved at seeing some form of emotion? And at least you'll have gotten it out of your system.
    Unless ENFPs are really comfortable they won't open up. They can be very open to a point, but anything close to their hearts, that really matters, normally stays well protected. I notice with FPs I get to the point of being completely open very quickly, with some other types I may never get there. INTJs seem to be one that I do get there with though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    Tell him how you feel about his actions and where you are without blaming him at all costs, as his fickle nature will only exacerbate. You might even say he's not required to respond to your concerns, but you would like for him to at least lend an open ear. Make your grievances sound fixable, in addition to clarifying that you are open to his side of the issue. He currently has a highly defensive barricade and you must take them down gently if you want to reach him. Fickleness is his way of protecting himself like emotional distancing is your personal shield. If neither individuals move past their defenses, then progress won't be made. That, I can guarantee.
    Yep, the best approach for an ENFP, or any P, is to hit them with where you are at, and perceptions rather than judgments. If he sees he's messed you round, he will blame himself anyway. It saves you some work and a conflict.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  8. #58
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    Side note: I've come to realize that an ENFP's actions are nearly impossible to predict or understand, since most of the time they don't know what they're going to do in the next 10 seconds.

    Now I'm convinced that 'F vs. T' only means 'gut feelings take priority over logic vs. logic takes priority over gut feelings' in decision making, there is not more of a correlation between F and sensitivity than T and the abovementioned quality.

    It seems EFP's particularly like to fuck around and toy with people. They flirt with others, and when it seems the victims have taken an interest in them, they throw them out like shit and move along. Is that fun OR WHAT?

    Am I generalizing here? Yes. Am I being irrational? A little, I guess. Do I care? Not for one second.
    Neither do the ENFPs. We are too busy fucking around and toying with other people.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    Unless ENFPs are really comfortable they won't open up. They can be very open to a point, but anything close to their hearts, that really matters, normally stays well protected. I notice with FPs I get to the point of being completely open very quickly, with some other types I may never get there. INTJs seem to be one that I do get there with though.
    You mean there won't be any angry shouting+passionate make-up sex?

    I was about to buy the rights to this story, dammit.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    You mean there won't be any angry shouting+passionate make-up sex?

    I was about to buy the rights to this story, dammit.
    Actually, I think "make up sex?" as a question would go down quite well with an ENFP male .
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

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