User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 72

  1. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    14

    Default

    I once had a slightly similar situation with a coworker. More trust issues than honesty issues, but anyway. I decided to write him a letter so I would not get too furious to be able to make my point effectively.

    Once the letter was done, I read it, and I knew it wouldn't do any good. He would deny, evade, ignore, pretend, and not even really understand what disturbs me. So I let sleeping dogs lie. Turned completely 'ice queen' towards him, polite but cool, and that upset him more than anything else I could do. Of course he didn't dare talk to me directly about this, and I ignored all the hints. Because any discussion won't be worth it. The guy has too different values. I cant start his reeducation at this stage.

    Try to write such a letter. It's a good exercise: it made me feel better, clear-headed, and calmer. It also made me realize that some people just can't understand the enormity of their misdeeds, you can shout till you are blue in the face and show illustrative diagrams they will just. Not. Get. It.

    It's hard not to be able to make your point. But please understand this guy has serious issues, and probably isn't as self-aware as you are. If he could be so dishonest, he isn't likely to suddenly admit openly that he was in the wrong. For all you know, he might delude himself into thinking that since he wasn't calling the times you spent together 'dates' everything he was doing was perfectly ok

  2. #12
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,657

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    Amargith, thanks so much for following my story. I guess I wanted to believe that he really wasn't so bad. I'm still very naive and innocent in a lot of ways.

    What happened to ENFP's caring about hurting others' feelings or caring about what others think of them?

    I guess in his attempt to not further hurt me, he would most likely resort to lying anyway...
    Oh hunny, even we hurt people in the process of figuring out ourselvse, as much as we don't want to, or deny to do so. I know I have in my day, and I'm not proud of it (not in this way but still...). ENFPs are far from perfect in this area, even if we would like to be. It takes time and self-reflection to figure out what you want in life, what values you hold dear and how you will navigate the murky waters and the many temptations in life to fully adhere to those values (Fi), especially when life is filled with wonderful options (Ne). And it takes skill to be able to navigate through life in the way you want to succesfully.

    I don't know him or you, but I'd like to think that you turned his head so much that he couldn't resist and got taken by surprise. INTJs will do that to us

    I had the same going with mine when I finally met him while dating someone else. I was able to stop him from kissing me..but the electricity, the passion, the entire weekend of head in the clouds...I've never cheated on anyone, but I've been close, because those feelings were so intoxicating.

    And..fwiw, I've seen a female INTJ do the same thing with an INFP in my group of friends. NFP-NTJ connections..
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #13
    Senior Member SciVo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    924
    Posts
    244

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    I guess in his attempt to not further hurt me, he would most likely resort to lying anyway...
    We humans are naturally self-centered and thoughtless, by nature. Naturally. Because nature made us that way. Not requiring any particular fancy, artificial cause. It just happens. So, the simplest explanation of bad behavior is self-centered thoughtlessness. Therefore, he'd resort to lying to avoid getting hurt long before he'd get around to lying to avoid hurting you.

    I'm not saying that he won't lie. I'm just saying that he won't be thinking of your feelings when he does it. Because he's human, and therefore self-centered and thoughtless by default, requiring special activation of higher potential just to avoid that sad fate.
    INFP ~ Fi/Ne/Ni/Te ~ 9-2-4 sp/so

  4. #14
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    If it's a male who's interested --> Not trust them.

    or
    Yeah but, see, sad to say, I'm not so sure this guy's behaviour is so very far away from normal for an ENFP. A young ENFP anyway. Under 30.

    So maybe the next guy gets the benefit of you knowing he might well try by nature to pull some shifty not quite actually strategic strategy, and you knowing to call WTF at the right times, and he gets to decide if he'll shape up or not.

    But there's something else as well. Like, why they behave that way. And is there ever a time to count them as trustworthy and strong.

    ENFPS had better be. They had definitely better have ways of being trustworthy and strong. So, what counts as trustworthy and strong? And what's your role? Real questions to be answered by the real people.

    Knowing that crap might be a better closure than bringing this guy down.


    PS. Another question: if you literally never had to actually look at this guy, would this issue still be live?

    (I don't know if that's a worthy question or not. Maybe not.)

  5. #15
    Senior Member thescientist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    254

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    PS. Another question: if you literally never had to actually look at this guy, would this issue still be live?

    (I don't know if that's a worthy question or not. Maybe not.)
    It would probably dissipate a lot faster if I didn't have to see him, rather than being reminded everyday of the deceit and having to overhear whispering phone conversations that are sometimes with his 'gf'. That just makes me harbor more anger and resentment.

    I thought about writing out what I would say to him like above poster suggested. Dont know if it would do it for me. I usually need face-to-face confrontation. Get it off my chest REGARDLESS of their response. I'll try writing it out anyway.

    Wouldn't it be amusing if I just emailed him a link to these forums? Ha! Wonder how he would feel to see how others perceive his actions.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Sizzling Berry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    187

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    So, what counts as trustworthy and strong? And what's your role? Real questions to be answered by the real people.
    But what if answering those questions hurts? :sad: Probably inevitable though.

    Anyways, thescientist, when it comes to talking to the guy my question would be: would u like the guy just to hear you (see that u r pissed with him) or to really understand why you are angry? What would make u calmer?

    The first one will give u at least a behavioural reaction - he will know that u r angry at him for a strange reason and around u he will be more concious - u can get a respect thingy - don't mess up with this gal.

    The second one - as Wellspring has said - u may never get. As SciVo mentioned - the guy may just start protecting himself, defending himself in his mind and thus not allowing himself to understand ur point.

    Yeah - but I can feel ur annoyance - the fact that u r attracted to somebody doesn't give this person a right to lie to u.
    Hot-hearted head

  7. #17
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    nnnn
    Posts
    1,633

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    Because I want some friggin closure, because I dont want to harbor these feelings anymore, because I work with the bastard, because he blatantly lied to my face about not being with anyone, because I'm sick and tired of the BS, because I don't think I've ever been deceived before in this manner.
    I have plenty of reasons to care and a sense of justice that wont stay quiet.
    Yeah...the whole not letting people get away with thinking they have deceived you thing. I would be the same. It's kind of justice and pride intermingled, I guess. And it's very difficult to let go of. I'd just tell him, at this point he can go fuck himself if he doesn't like it and he should be able to take the fallout of his own actions anyway (that's not to say he's "to blame" for the whole thing going awry...but the gf thing...ehh). It doesn't really matter if he denies it, as long as he knows we know...at least that's my thing. I suppose it's more about being true to our own values (honesty, (confrontation), respect...)...I would respect myself more for letting him know he cannot just get away with it. This does give closure. Time to think about your own feelings.

  8. #18
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    The question was, "What are you going to do with the next ENFP you meet?"
    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    If it's a male who's interested --> Not trust them.
    Judging a whole MBTI group based on the behavior of one individual is irrational at best and dangerous at worst.

    It's like saying you're never going to trust blondes again, or people who are 6 feet tall, or ... you get the idea.

    And of course I think you should be aware in the future, but love involves an element of falling into it and therefore trust, so I would just caution you not to have your guard up to such an extent that you never let yourself try again.

    Sending you a for comfort and appreciation of your pain and frustration.

  9. #19
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    Because I want some friggin closure, because I dont want to harbor these feelings anymore, because I work with the bastard, because he blatantly lied to my face about not being with anyone, because I'm sick and tired of the BS, because I don't think I've ever been deceived before in this manner.
    I have plenty of reasons to care and a sense of justice that wont stay quiet.
    Well personally i think you should tell him that you know he was seeing someone else and tell him to drop the bullshit. Tell him all you know about his bullshitting, tell him how you feel about him and the situation and tell him that you want a closure to this.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  10. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SciVo View Post
    It's not worth it. Consider: what do you want? For your universal human psychological needs to be met. What needs? In this case, your needs for respect of worthiness, reciprocity of exclusivity and non-betrayal of trust. Can you get more of what you want by confronting him? No, he'll go from an evasive jerk to a defensive jerk. All you can do is empathize with your own needs -- explicitly verbally recognizing your right to have them met -- and then take actions that will help with that... such as avoiding the jerk (and maybe seeking a worthy guy, if you feel like it). But I really don't see how there's anything you can say to him that will help actually meet those needs, as opposed to in a fantasy where he's suddenly overcome by remorse and tearfully admits how wrong he was (not gonna happen).


    It doesn't sound like directly confronting him or being passive aggressive will ultimately get what you want, which is for him to confess his wrongdoings on his own, with no prodding from you. That's the ideal scenario, right? That someone you liked would live up to the good things you saw in them.

    Since you're unlikely to get that, I suggest that you focus on yourself. What would make you happy? What would release this anger within you, that's harming you and not him? You feel mistreated by him. What would give you that respect back in your own life? More time with friends and family? Kicking ass at your job? Learning that foreign language you've been meaning to set aside time for? Focus on yourself. Everyone needs to learn how to make themselves happy. This might be a good opportunity for you to do that.

    Also Scientist, I wanted to comment on this part of your OP.

    So after all this time, and now that we're just back to amicable coworkers, I hear through the grapevine in the office that he does indeed have a gf, but it's unsure how serious the relationship is. Which means he had a gf the whole time he was going out with me and kissing me. She lives a few hours away, which I realize is why he always goes to that city once/twice a month. And this is why he never liked to call our dates "dates" claiming that word was TOO SERIOUS. Pieces finally coming together...
    You probably didn't give all the details here, but I just wanted to raise the question of whether you might have jumped to conclusions on this. Just from what you wrote, I couldn't really make a judgment call on whether he did have a gf when he was going out with you. Maybe he wasn't that serious with her? Maybe they were on hiatus? Who knows?

    Anyway, it's hard to do, but I think you should give him the benefit of the doubt and while you're at it, cut yourself some slack too.

    Wish you well.

Similar Threads

  1. [ENFP] How to spot an ENFP a mile off
    By LostInNerSpace in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 198
    Last Post: 08-27-2017, 05:23 PM
  2. [INFJ] ENFP trying to understand her special INFJ. Very special !
    By supercalifragilistic in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 04-08-2017, 11:13 PM
  3. [Se] An INTJ trying to pinpoint and understand Extraverted Sensing
    By fecaleagle in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-26-2011, 10:27 PM
  4. [MBTItm] INTJ: trying to understand my ISTJ friend
    By Glass Forest in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-06-2010, 01:13 PM
  5. [ENFP] INTJ trying to understand an ENFP's actions
    By thescientist in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 154
    Last Post: 08-30-2009, 04:58 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO