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  1. #21
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    re above... a true emotional and intellectual connection...

  2. #22
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    I know this is a sensitive subject, but I'm going to be very honest with you.

    I'm an ENFP, married to an INFP, so I hope you will find my comments helpful, and not take them as an insult.


    Quote Originally Posted by Quiet Fire View Post

    I tried hard to ask/convince him that we could communicate as friends (telling him I was dating and encouraging his meetings/dating) - but to no affect ('effect'..?!) After a divorce.. he should be making new friends.. re-building and formulating a new life for himself. I know it's a time of much change for him.. As I write this.. I can only conclude that I was/am more difficulty - trouble - a negative - - than worth... From what I know, he is trying to be consistent and being honest... just not saying anything (which is saying something - but what..?!)!
    I'm sorry to say it, but in my relationship, this kind of thinking/behavior is really tires me out---especially the bolded parts.

    It makes me feel like I'm stuck in the mud, running in place, instead of moving forward.

    I'm capable of great patience and endurance in relationships, but there is definitely a limit.

    I'm married, so when this happens, I accept that it's part of who she is, and I choose to cope with it.

    But if I were in the beginning stages of the relationship, and this was happening frequently, I would probably break it off.

    I can't speak for other ENFPs, but I would imagine they would feel the same way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Quiet Fire View Post

    .. perhaps he 'intuited' me as being too needy
    You may or may not be too needy, I don't know.

    But I think it's likely that he interpreted it that way.


    Another possibility, of course, is that he likes you very much, but just has a lot of friends/activities going on in his life, and that it's a part of him that you will have to accept.

    He may or may not need to work on that (---it depends on how extreme it is, I guess---)but ultimately, we have no control over others.



    I can only conclude that I was/am more difficulty - trouble - a negative - - than worth...
    Watch out for this, especially.

    I'm not suggesting that it's "bad" to feel this way, or that you should try to suppress it, but I recommend that you don't overwhelm yourself and others (particularly a free-wheeling ENFP ) with it.

    Whether you verbalize it or not, I think ENFPs can intuit it, and it feels very negative to an ENFP, and so it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    __________________


    I'M OUTTA HERE.

    IT'S BEEN FUN.

    TAKE CARE.

    PEACE OUT!!!


  3. #23
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    Quiet, you seem to be a wonderful person. The problem with NF/NF relationships are that we're all always so sensitive; we are strong, yes, but there are triggers each of us has that would make us fly away unless growth has happened to cause us to become calused to them.

    And no offense to the ENFPs, but unless they've grown up, they tend to be emotionally flaky (2nd Level Fi's retreat! But 1st Level Fe's have the opposite problem of not giving up when we should).

    So, I encourage you...go forth, my noble friend, and find yourself a gallant ENTJ to take care of you (not that you need it, but I know it's always nice...).


    --Fuzz
    Love is the point.

  4. #24
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    The problem with NF/NF relationships are that we're all always so sensitive; we are strong, yes, but there are triggers each of us has that would make us fly away unless growth has happened to cause us to become calused to them.
    Yeah, I think this is true.

    I'd say that NF-NF relationships benefit from a basic mutual understanding, but it takes a lot of patience to deal with each other's sensitivity and touchiness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    And no offense to the ENFPs, but unless they've grown up, they tend to be emotionally flaky
    I agree with this as well.

    I think it takes a long time for an ENFP to really figure out what they want out of love/out of life.
    __________________


    I'M OUTTA HERE.

    IT'S BEEN FUN.

    TAKE CARE.

    PEACE OUT!!!


  5. #25
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    I think it takes a long time for an ENFP to really figure out what they want out of love/out of life.
    My Ministry's Co-Leader, Brenda, is going through that right now. She feels that God isn't directing her anywhere new and it's driving her nuts; I tried to explain that she's going through a PDT--Personal Development Time, and that there would be no solid ministry direction until she figured out what was supposed to about herself during this time.
    Love is the point.

  6. #26
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    'Appreciate ENFP/J's thoughts... From what you say, Wonka... I am too tedious 'feeling'-wise for this ENFP (he'd been married to an INTJ from what I can tell - so I expect just newly exploring F's as friends) and that from his perspective it's just not fun or desirable. When he just stopped responding to email... it was hard to believe.. never thought/would think someone c/would do that.. But, gawd... I kept (we're talking months... yep, damn tedious) spilling my guts trying to talk about things.. reconnect.. not leave things on a negative note... and I gather he felt he just couldn't/didn't want to do it. I just needed to talk about/openly acknowledge/express things, but it apparently wasn't possible/reasonable for him. I'm not a silly person and think I deserve(d, if there is such a word) a little respect... in any kind of response.

    I realize, Wonka, that I may not be thinking very clearly here (trying to wrap on a diagnosis/treatment of an ongoing health issue... 'more tediousness..) - but that's the point to me - I would like to see both sides of this clearly - - so I appreciate your comments. You say 'NF relationships benefit from mutual understanding'... so, understand, damn it..! I never even met this guy.. I don't 'want' him... I just don't want to be thrown away by him. I understand and accept that he has much going on in his life... why can he not do the simple same for me...?!

    I tried to ask if there was a way to know if you were a real friend to an ENFP: my understanding is that if they are revealing/open with you, you may be 'in'.. I suppose I thought that had started... but then it fell apart after one 'fallout'/whatever.. so maybe it just didn't go anywhere.

    Again, I understand he's figuring things out... but so are lots of people.. And is there some arrogance mixed in with the sensitivity..?

    Fuzz.... I think of it more as learning/experience or maybe maturation as opposed to becoming 'calloused'... and I've seen enough of life to know 'lots of relationships just don't go the way you'd like or want them to. But I've also come to value those fewer relationships where you really can talk with (or think you are!) someone... then again, maybe I'm not getting out enough right now!! It is a hugely novel idea, btw, to have someone 'take care of me'.. though I have my needs for a shoulder (and perspective; I'm here aren't I..?!) now and then.. my expectation is to share/talk through the journey. And I want to be understood...

    Am I piling it on, Wonka...?.. And Fuzz.. I'm getting some anger out (I printed your signature out; it's great!) too.. and will take all of the encouragement and support I can get (thank you)..

    QF

  7. #27
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    You are allowed to be angry. He isn't handling this in a mature and adult manner, and you deserve better. At the very least, he should have let you know he can't be friends with you right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiet Fire View Post
    I don't 'want' him... I just don't want to be thrown away by him.
    If you decide to throw him away, it doesn't matter what he does. It's possible to love someone, and bitterly regret never having a fair chance, while recognizing they weren't worthy of you. That recognition will lead to eventual healing.

  8. #28
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    *supports* Go get 'em kitten. Wonka reminds me that creating lasting cohesiveness is worked at in NF/NF relationships.

    Like with my friend Brenda (ENFP); she'll talk and talk and talk and talk and then, when she's done talking, bounce somewhere else. I'm not offended by this...I just don't get a word in edgewise (and, you know, you've gotta listen sometimes) and as an extravert myself, I need attention too! She'll happily oblige if I summon her again when she's not busy and we're starting to develop a repor like this.

    Thanks for liking my sig, I like it too! I know it's not a matter of being caloused (though in many situations, quick, fast growth is necessary, and emotional calouses can occur to protect you from harm), what I meant to say was that NF/NF harmony is something that you might have to stretch yourself for. Once you do, I think it'd make an amazing marriage, very intimate marriage. I just fear the bordom I've seen in too many SJ/SJ couples.

    --Fuzz
    Love is the point.

  9. #29
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    To be fair to him, 'Dog, I think he may have let me know he 'couldn't be friends with me right now,' .. but I didn't want to hear it... and perhaps just hoped that would change... and then maybe other needs of mine took over... I never experienced anything like it.. would never have expected it.

  10. #30
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    Thanks, Fuzz... I'm reminded that the beginning of any relationship involves getting to know each other... and as things unfold and you get to know each other... either of you may choose to run the other way..

    And 'Dog... I can't conceive of throwing someone away, of course, but I can get growly sometimes... when I need to talk. Don't other INFPs have this need to express/share.. simply talk about something (I'm not talking major heaves.. just TALKING).. and then it's kind of like 'out there and an entire new picture, and (I) can move forward again...?

    And I might not be 'worthy' of him in eyes of some, with health issues hanging over me.. I might take cover, too...

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