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  1. #51
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    I'm assuming your an ESFJ? Don't get offended, we are clearly discussing unhealthy ESFJs, not attacking the entire personality type.
    No offense on my part. Didn't you start the ENTJ hate thread? If you take issue with the way ENTJs are portrayed then I'm sure you can see why adding to the misinformation mix with ESFJs could be offensive, but I am not I assure you.

    Twisted in that she is often crossing boundaries and taking too many initiatives.
    I'm not quite sure what this means when someone is elected to preside over something.

    She has self esteem issues and her Fe is so out of wack that she just tries to help everyone by getting involved in their work and even taking over doing everything on her own.
    I don't know this person, so I don't know if she has legitimate self-esteem issues and won't comment on that. In my previous post I stated that many people often misinterpret ESFJs offering to help as presumptuous. What I'm suggesting to you is step back, get out of your friend group who basically confirms each others world view back to each other and see if she is truly as destructive a force as she seems.

    The feelers sympathize with her and appreciate her "motherly" nature but the thinkers get insulted and annoyed that she is violating all of our rules and making us appear incompetent.
    Well perhaps she tried rallying everyone together and that didn't work and then she tried another method which stepped on people's toes as well. If nothing she attempts is ever right or will please everyone then what is she left to do? It seems like one group of people approve of her actions and another doesn't. Sounds like life.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #52
    Pumpernickel
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    I am not sure how quoting in parts works so I'm going to break down this message without it.

    - I don't understand what this has to do with my thread. There I am asking why people generally see ENTJs in such a negative light. Here I am complaining about a specific girl I know who I've describe as highly unhealthy. What exactly are you asking me about my thead?

    - Being elected to preside over something is exactly my point. Without going into specific details, we have all been elected for our own specific positions that we were interested in and are running them quite well. That is why we don't appreciate her interfering and mothering attitude that makes us look like we are somehow less competent and less interested in our goals than she is, just because our process is different.

    - Destructive force overall? No. That doesn't change the fact that she is not behaving in a very considerate or professional way, and that she is offending us at every turn.

    - I didn't say one group of people approved and the other didn't. I said some people are bothered and others just let it happen and say (yeah, but what can we really do? whatever)

  3. #53
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    I am not sure how quoting in parts works so I'm going to break down this message without it.
    At the bottom of each post, there is a "quote" button. You can specifically quote that reply when you click on it.
    - I don't understand what this has to do with my thread. There I am asking why people generally see ENTJs in such a negative light. Here I am complaining about a specific girl I know who I've describe as highly unhealthy. What exactly are you asking me about my thead?
    I understand. I brought your thread up to get you to see how just as you feel that people see ENTJs in a unfair light, it's the same thing with ESFJs. Just how you feel people misunderstand how ENTJs and see them as

    - uninteresting
    - not friendly
    - controlling
    - closed minded

    the same thing can be said of how people unfairly view ESFJs.

    - Being elected to preside over something is exactly my point. Without going into specific details, we have all been elected for our own specific positions that we were interested in and are running them quite well. That is why we don't appreciate her interfering and mothering attitude that makes us look like we are somehow less competent and less interested in our goals than she is, just because our process is different.
    Are you in SGA? I was all about SGA when I was in high school. I guess this depends on how you view how things get accomplished, basically your work style. Fe-doms tend to be more collaborative in their approach to working, meaning they try get everyone involved and expect a fairly transparent communication style. My old department director was an ESFJ and we had meetings every week were we had to explain what projects we were working on. Although I thought weekly meetings were excessive, I understood that she was trying to foster a certain atmosphere in our department. When we would explain what we were doing she'd often interject who we should contact to get something or "don't forget this" statements. Sometimes I'd think "duh, I know to do that" other times I'd think "oh ok, thanks didn't know that." If she thinks she's just informing you all on how to do something then it doesn't necessarily mean she thinks people are incompetent.

    Maybe you can control for what you consider interfering by voluntarily updating her on what you're doing, why you're doing it, and how you're going to do it. Try this a few times before she even has a chance to say anything to you and see if she chills out.

    - Destructive force overall? No. That doesn't change the fact that she is not behaving in a very considerate or professional way, and that she is offending us at every turn.
    She may not think she's being inconsiderate or unprofessional, she may just think she's being the president and doing her job.

    - I didn't say one group of people approved and the other didn't. I said some people are bothered and others just let it happen and say (yeah, but what can we really do? whatever)
    Have the officers tried to have a meeting and get on the same page? I'd say all of you need to get together and talk things out. Don't gang up on her and attack her. See what changes happen as a result of that meeting. If in a while nothing happens then try talking to your SGA adviser about the situation.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #54
    Pumpernickel
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    Yeah but I wasn't talking about all ESFJs I was talking about a specific one I have a problem with. I more than understand that there can be some fucked up ENTJs that people will have problems with and I am not defending that.

    I have no clue what an SGA is but it sounds like what your advisor did to you is kind of really similar to what is happening with us. She goes overboard though and goes out and obtains a quote for something I am working on that I've already obtained the quote for and to me that is really insulting. Also, excessive meetings, excessive amounts of telling us how to do things, and basically an inability to stay out of a matter that transcends the university student club into something in our personal lives.

    What I meant in my original post is that I kind of understand now why she does what she does and that she basically doesn't mean anything rude by it but I still have no clue how to make her stop behaving like such a bitch. Maybe its an ENTJ thing, but I can't stand being preached to and blindsided by someone I find to be an incompetent moron.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    Maybe its an ENTJ thing, but I can't stand being preached to and blindsided by someone I find to be an incompetent moron.
    And what if the ESFJ thinks you are an incompetent moron--then what?
    Or do you think you are the final arbiter as to who is, and who is not, a moron?
    For all you know, she thinks you're the stupidest bitch on earth.

  6. #56
    Pumpernickel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    And what if the ESFJ thinks you are an incompetent moron--then what?
    Or do you think you are the final arbiter as to who is, and who is not, a moron?
    For all you know, she thinks you're the stupidest bitch on earth.

    That doesn't even make sense, I am not the one interfering with her business.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    That doesn't even make sense, I am not the one interfering with her business.

    Protean's post went right over your head.
    My post went right over your head.
    If it's that difficult for you to see the forest, forget it.
    You look at trees.

  8. #58
    Pumpernickel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Protean's post went right over your head.
    My post went right over your head.
    If it's that difficult for you to see the forest, forget it.
    You look at trees.
    You must have read a different conversation.

    Read again.

    I THINK you are trying to pull out random confrontational bullshit that is irrelevant to the conversation, but I am giving you more credit than that.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Justxher - I am surprised you are having such a hard time with this particular individual.
    My best friend and ex work colleague is an ENTJ and we get on like a house on fire. We both understand and RESPECT what the other is doing. Should there be a problem we SPEAK UP about it. So far we have not come to loggerheads once. We are able to see each others STRENGTHS and use them to our advantage.



    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post

    So many people in this thread are off the mark it's ridiculous.
    Ahhh, what can you do about it. People will have their opinions no matter how much you argue for the other side. Your comments though giving the explanation of why we behave the way we do, made complete sense.
    Possibly some people are not as openminded as they would like to think.
    *waits for the backlash* or just choosing not to listen.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  10. #60
    Pumpernickel
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Justxher -

    Ahhh, what can you do about it. People will have their opinions no matter how much you argue for the other side. Your comments though giving the explanation of why we behave the way we do, made complete sense.
    Possibly some people are not as openminded as they would like to think.
    *waits for the backlash* or just choosing not to listen.
    See that is my current problem, I understand her better now since I've determined her type and read up about it, and this explanation made total sense, but I still just wish I could figure out how to keep her from meddling in my work quite so much. However innocent it may be, i don't like it and it interferes with my productivity and annoys me like there is no tomorrow.

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