User Tag List

First 34567 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 61

  1. #41
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default SFJ and NFJ: REALLY LONG POST

    Dealing with ESFJs doesn't require some special understanding. In fact, I'd say the FeSi combo typically works to your advantage if you don't use it stereotypically and myopically.

    Being Fe-doms, ESFJ behavior will vary depending on what group they're with. I think people often get "traditional" confused with larger cultural traditions and not group specific traditions, typical difference between macro and micro systems. It's about picking up the particular strain of Si the ESFJ is using and recognizing it's going to be pretty stable in output. I find that people very rarely take into account the vast amount of variability between SJs. I'm pretty sure there are quite a few ESxJs in people's lives that they don't even recognize as being ESJ because they don't act straight enough to type.

    If you want to find the ESFJs more constant personality I'd suggest paying attention to how they behave with friends, not even necessarily family because then the duty factor comes into play a bit more. A "tradition" for a ESFJ is that all their friends meet for brunch on Sunday morning or getting stinking drunk once a month.

    I've also noticed a distinct difference between older, married ESFJs with children and younger, single, ESFJs. I consider younger ESFJs to be kind of like Thoroughly Modern Millies and older ones taking on that more the typical ESFJ persona. I know more younger ones than older ones but even the older ones, I tend to see a great love for their family and professionally they tend to really be the glue that holds my department together. My Division is basically run by NFPs and if it wasn't for the ESFJs I'm pretty sure things would be even worse than they are now.

    I also think that ESFJs are the most socially pragmatic of the FJs; I see a depth and acknowledgment of social realities that I know NFJs see but don't "accept" which leads to greater NFJ frustration and anger as compared to their SFJ counterparts. This perceptiveness is often unacknowledged and unappreciated in SFJs. I think SFJs have a greater mastery of the concept of "Don't sweat the small stuff" than NFJs. When I talk to some of my SFJ coworkers about policies and practices that absolutely outrage me and my INFJ coworker, they're pretty mellow about it. Recently, they changed the Internet and Personal Email policy at work and the two of us were fuming at the injustice and a couple of them simply said: "You're here to work. Check your email from your phone." And then we went on and on about how employees should have free access to personal emails, what if this and what if that. In the end, it really was about us being here to work.

    I've always thought Sade is an ISFJ. Her song "King of Sorrow" sounds so very SFJ to me, especially the line "I have so much to do...I have to carry on." I think this is generally why (and I know I sound stereotypical) I do see more SFJ in the hands-on medical profession tending to the physical care of others. So yeah in a specific sense that comes out as "Clean your room!" but in a general sense they often become beasts of burden and feel it themselves and resent it. People do often take advantage of their steadfastness and they strike out.

    Since my mother has been sick I've seen so many of her fellow churchgoers just volunteer to do stuff for us. During the worst part of it earlier this year, they'd take shifts sitting in the hospital with my mother while we had to go to work in order to earn paychecks. Many SFJs have come to our house to keep my mother company and lift her spirits, sing with her, and hell even cleaned the house. That's not something people should thumb their noses at and disdain as being a lesser ability.

    I think SFJs are more neglectful of themselves than NFJs and they have a greater appreciation for someone paying attention to them and relieving the burden from their shoulders. Practically that works out as them not having to ask you to do things, but you looking and noticing what things need to be done and doing it for them. Of course, unhealthier versions of any type will find something to complain about.

    And believe it or not, IME ESFJs actually enjoy doing things that many people on this forum would find distasteful. One of my ESFJ coworkers came to me and asked me if I needed help organizing my bookshelf. I didn't feel he was insinuating 'clean that monstrosity!' but that he genuinely saw that is was and is out of control and I hadn't stopped to do it yet and that he could really be of help. I think this is a problem most people have in understanding ESFJs: they don't know how to interpret when they are genuinely reaching out to be of practical help. They take it as "are you saying I'm a slob?!?!" "are you saying I can't do this on my own?!?!" Just stop. Take it at the level it's being said. I know once I figured out an ESFJ did that to everyone, it stopped bothering me. They weren't singling me out for any special disapproval or censure.

    And once again, in a general sense, I appreciate someone who looks around them sees what needs to be done and makes action to do it and they're Fes which I like how easy it is to talk to them and how they actually take the effort to make people feel comfortable and relax. That's nothing to sneeze at when you're at a work baby shower and everyone else is nervously and awkwardly pushing cake around on their plates because they have nothing to say. Fine, talk about Ace of Cakes anything to get all these nervous people talking!
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #42
    Member braziljoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    infp
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    infj
    Posts
    45

    Lightbulb

    I'm not NF (weak T), but I think ESFJs are nuts. Like you, I had an ESFJ roommate (I'm an INTP, imagine the situation...). They get angry over so many insignificant things and what about that obsession with cleaning the house?

    At the other hand, though, they are one of the most altruistic people I know.

  3. #43
    brainheart
    Guest

    Default

    My (I think) ESFJ older sister is one of my best friends. Although we are six years apart she always made the time for me and treated me like an equal. She has a very big heart and is usually taking other people's feelings into consideration in every thing she does.

    That doesn't mean we don't have our problems. For example, when I go to visit her, I kind of just let her take over in the role of social director because typically I really don't care what we do, provided I have ample time to myself to do my own thing. She can get really frustrated by this because she can't comprehend that anyone can be happy just doing whatever, so she's always saying, "No, really. Tell me what you want to do!" And then I will reply, "Obviously you have a stronger opinion, so let's just do what you want." By this time, we are both ready for me to go home.

    Also, she has all sorts or relationship woes because she always falls for these ISTP/ESTP slacker sort of guys (not saying all ISTP/ESTP guys are slackers, I am married to one after all) who I think she has a vision of changing- you know, the whole "a good responsible woman like me will transform them into responsible law-abiding citizens and then everything will be perfect!" Needless to say, this never transpires and her life falls to shit and she calls me for advice, because that's what I guess we INFPs are good at. I love to help, but it's hard to ignore her repeating patterns and she gets so defensive about it because she is just doing what all good, responsible people do. And then she gets so manipulative and psycho with her boyfriends- you know, reading between the lines of what they say and spying on them on facebook and reading their texts to other people off their phone, etc. I try to tell her that trust is key in a relationship and you can't control people and she'll say, "well, if he would just behave this way, I wouldn't have to do it!" It can be hard to witness because when she is healthy and happy she is the nicest, most giving, most loving person around.

  4. #44
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by braziljoe View Post
    I'm not NF (weak T), but I think ESFJs are nuts. Like you, I had an ESFJ roommate (I'm an INTP, imagine the situation...). They get angry over so many insignificant things and what about that obsession with cleaning the house?

    At the other hand, though, they are one of the most altruistic people I know.
    I don't know what insignificant means.

    In college I had one set of roommates who were so gotdamn dirty that there were maggots crawling around in the vegetable bin in the refrigerator on several occasions because the fruits and vegetables had rotted and no on threw them out. I will say dishes weren't a problem because people bought plastic plates and cutlery.

    They'd bake brownies and leave them out on the counter so long they'd grow mold. There was pee crust on and around the toilet from where boyfriends with bad aim had missed. Toothpaste all over the sink. Hair all over the floor. They were green enough to recycle, but since no one ever took out the recycling or rinsed out soda cans we had ants and fruit flies. No one vacuumed anything.

    I had to petition student housing in order to move out. I don't view cleaning up after yourself as insignificant. It's a disgusting atmosphere to be in and around. And I'm only referring to common areas, not personal space.

    Everyone's tolerance of what is dirty/clean is different. Some people think having one dirty pot in the sink makes the whole kitchen dirty. I've met people who are comfortable having pee pools in their bathrooms.

    Have you guys ever talked about what level of cleanliness is adequate for everyone? The only time personal space/rooms factors into the equation is if there are any foul smells coming from the room, but other than that just focus on common areas. Other than that state of a person's room is off limits. Some people may have to relax their standards of cleanliness and others may have to raise them.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #45
    Senior Member Drezoryx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    ENTp
    Posts
    213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Since my mother has been sick I've seen so many of her fellow churchgoers just volunteer to do stuff for us. During the worst part of it earlier this year, they'd take shifts sitting in the hospital with my mother while we had to go to work in order to earn paychecks. Many SFJs have come to our house to keep my mother company and lift her spirits, sing with her, and hell even cleaned the house. That's not something people should thumb their noses at and disdain as being a lesser ability.
    yep i agree with that!
    Type 8 sx/sp/so
    O:C:E:A:N :: 65:69:59:57:9

  6. #46
    Member braziljoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    infp
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    infj
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I don't know what insignificant means.

    Some people think having one dirty pot in the sink makes the whole kitchen dirty.
    That's what I meant by insignificant things.
    Besides, I was talking about one specific person who I have nothing against. Just the constant anger and the cleaning thing were what pissed me off.
    Not trying to be contradictory, but ESFJs are pretty good people indeed.

  7. #47
    Senior Member BlueinGreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    105

    Default

    The bassist in the band I'm in is an ESFJ, but when he gets irritating we tend to keep him in check by making him the butt of our jokes, which often fly over his head... :p

    (drummer is xntp, singer/rhythm guitar is estp, interesting dynamics lol)

    But seriously, he's a genuinely nice guy, he just sometimes get hypercritically perfectionist. On the bright side, he takes criticism better than probably anyone I've ever met. And he's the only one of us with a house...

  8. #48
    Pumpernickel
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    1,960

    Default

    I totally can relate, I have this hyper-involved ESFJ president at school who tries to mother everybody and take control of every situation. It took me a supberly long time to realize that she isn't an evil psycho bitch but is in her own twisted way doing what she thinks is best.

    I found recently that I could manipulate her easily by just throwing NT logic her way in every situation and being as direct and confrontational as possible. She absolutely hates criticism and will give in to anything I throw at her, going out of her way to please me. Its nice


    Might be harder with you being a feeler and stuff but maybe you could try just directly throwing stuff at her like "Okay, I need space" when she comes into your room. She'll probably go dwell on it for a while and then adapt.

  9. #49
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    I totally can relate, I have this hyper-involved ESFJ president at school who tries to mother everybody and take control of every situation. It took me a supberly long time to realize that she isn't an evil psycho bitch but is in her own twisted way doing what she thinks is best.

    I found recently that I could manipulate her easily by just throwing NT logic her way in every situation and being as direct and confrontational as possible. She absolutely hates criticism and will give in to anything I throw at her, going out of her way to please me. Its nice


    Might be harder with you being a feeler and stuff but maybe you could try just directly throwing stuff at her like "Okay, I need space" when she comes into your room. She'll probably go dwell on it for a while and then adapt.
    I would not automatically define your lack of understanding into how she operates is "twisted" and "manipulative." And she's the school president? What is she supposed to as school president?

    So many people in this thread are off the mark it's ridiculous.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  10. #50
    Pumpernickel
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    1,960

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I would not automatically define your lack of understanding into how she operates is "twisted" and "manipulative." And she's the school president? What is she supposed to as school president?

    So many people in this thread are off the mark it's ridiculous.
    I'm assuming your an ESFJ? Don't get offended, we are clearly discussing unhealthy ESFJs, not attacking the entire personality type.

    Twisted in that she is often crossing boundaries and taking too many initiatives. She has self esteem issues and her Fe is so out of wack that she just tries to help everyone by getting involved in their work and even taking over doing everything on her own. The feelers sympathize with her and appreciate her "motherly" nature but the thinkers get insulted and annoyed that she is violating all of our rules and making us appear incompetent.

Similar Threads

  1. [ENFP] Why does she bother me so much? Is there a type that doesn't get along with ENFP's??
    By cheerchick23 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 06-21-2014, 06:28 PM
  2. How is it I get along with ENFJs long term but not ESFJs?
    By prplchknz in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-21-2011, 10:20 PM
  3. What types do certain types get along with best?
    By Crazydaisy in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 01-12-2010, 03:30 PM
  4. [MBTItm] Do you get along with people of your own type?
    By fidelia in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-11-2009, 12:46 PM
  5. [MBTItm] How do you get along with the SJs?
    By nolla in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 06-05-2008, 03:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO