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Thread: NFP Idealism

  1. #11
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    yeah...how funny. i'm sure i've had several of those sorts of conversations...and you're right we/i can be detrimentally optimistic and unrealistic at times.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    I am more inwardly idealistic. I am not out to change things to my idealistic values.

    But my standards are really high. I am always trying to live up to my expectations and ideals, and sometimes don't. It's a battle.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

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    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    yeah actually...thinking about it more. i seem to have really high standards for the way people ought to be treated..there is a huge need for fairness and respect and i will speak up immediately to whoever on someones behalf if i think they're being treated below my standards.

    which..right..who appointed me the judge of such things...it's all contradictory and doesn't make any sense which in a way is unfair to other people perhaps...i see what you mean.
    i think our accepting nature can make us feel wrong to judge in any way...but we are people with opinions and standards so...it's a hard thing to feel balance with i guess...
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

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    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    proteanmix: Is it then weird that I also have a decent grasp of the roadblocks to any of the dreams I have?
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #15
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    proteanmix: Is it then weird that I also have a decent grasp of the roadblocks to any of the dreams I have?
    No, I don't think it's weird...you know your situation better than anyone else, which was why I was slightly offended with that particular conversation. I felt like the blind optimism was irresponsible and short-sighted.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    When the INFJ and I were alone, I asked her did I seem like I was being too negative and pessimistic. I think her answer is a key difference between NFJ and NFP. The two of us seem to be more acknowledging of road blocks and hindrances not for the sake of complacency but maybe as a way to substantiate that people have very legitimate and real fears or life circumstances that make pursuing a dream difficult. I think by acknowledging those things and creating a plan to eliminate or lessen the severity of those obstacles is a better method that just saying "You can do it!"
    I'm sure I've done this with my friends as well. I'm actually well aware of roadblocks, but I never feel like those are things need to be aired out in conversation. I mean, who doesn't have roadblocks and difficulties in life?

    When I've happy-bombed my friends like your coworker has, it's my way of showing them that life can take inexplicable turns for the better sometimes. Maybe you'll get a financial aid package to help you through school. Maybe you can get family members and friends to help out. You don't know what will happen in the future, so why dwell on the obstacles in your mind -- I guess that's my take on things.

    Of course, I'm talking about material obstacles here, not emotional obstacles. I'm all for airing out and discussing emotional obstacles. That's the Fi, perhaps?

  7. #17
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    When the INFJ and I were alone, I asked her did I seem like I was being too negative and pessimistic. I think her answer is a key difference between NFJ and NFP. The two of us seem to be more acknowledging of road blocks and hindrances not for the sake of complacency but maybe as a way to substantiate that people have very legitimate and real fears or life circumstances that make pursuing a dream difficult. I think by acknowledging those things and creating a plan to eliminate or lessen the severity of those obstacles is a better method that just saying "You can do it!"

    I felt like my ENFP coworker was glossing over the fact that when I told her my school debt is not imaginary; I owe money and I don't to add any more debt it wasn't just a matter of me not being determined enough. I'm definitely more realistic than she is and she's admitted she's an eternal optimist. She's good to have around and I like her, it's just that sometimes I feel like if I say my more negative thoughts and feelings with her because I'll get a "buck up sunshine!" She's also a crisis counselor and her natural sunny disposition is great in that line of work...I think there's definitely many places for her attitude towards life.
    Perahps you are picking up on a twist of the P/J theme. For you I would guess you use Fe to give structure to your long term plans. So you build them, notice very clearly the emotional/social/disruptive aspects of the plan and then have to identify conciously how to circumvent them, in order to make a stable Fe plan. This is not all roses and candy. Let me know if this sounds at all correct...could be BS.

    For me, I will set a long term Te goal and once set I WILL NOT QUIT. For instance going to school as a single mom. My days may be all over the place, moody Fi-ing looniness, silly spasticity, however Te holds me strongly accountable in the longterm. Since it isnt a dom or aux Te though, I have a hard time clearly delineating individual steps. So the goal-finish my BS in biochemistry-driven by Te, but on a daily basis motivated by NeFi curious enthusiasm and emo affirmation maybe? It worked well for undergrad but leaving grad school with an MS was so hard for me-I felt like a horrific drop out.

    So your enfp is applying what will work with an enfp onto an ENFJ and it doesn't translate well?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    NFPs, do you ever feel like you are just too idealistic? That your standards and values are too hard on other people? How do you turn off the idealistic switch in your head, and do you come to terms with the reality that the way the world/life works is rarely comparable to your own ideals of how it should be?
    yes. I dont usually voice it though. Proteo mentioned her boss, who would whine that "I walked up fifteen hills in the snow...." sort of stuff. Sometimes I find myself doing this in my head. If I can accomplish something by working hard and devoting my time, why cant this other person. But almost immediately I quell the thought as I recognize I dont understand thier life or what complications they have so I cannot judge them. I think this is a gut Te thing as well.

    Te is cruel and unforgiving. It holds me and everyone around me to high standards and lets me clearly know where I have failed. It is the voice in the back of my head when I want to quit that says "suck up and get back to it".

    Fi is the forgiveness factor above that allows other people leniancy, if you are not horrific I will have some level of Fi automatic caring for you. I get no leniancy personally though.

    However when involving hurting others both Fi and Te step up and can be very harsh and critical to others. It suprises me when others are very unaware of how thier actions affect others around them and inflict harm. When I see this I have to spend some time thinking on how they could not see what they do. Once I understand thier weaknesses/blind spots I can forgive them very easily.

    Maybe this is why enfps feel we have to understand others. Te has exceptionally high standards but Fi has exceptional forgiveness for others. By understanding the other person as much as possible, it allows us to calibrate our response-our standards-to their actions and respond accordingly and not be overly idealistic. We understand how they differ and accept them fully, embracing those differences and forgiving as slights they may inflict.

    Does this sound nuts?

  8. #18
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Ne-Monster: how do you explain me then?
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #19
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberrylover View Post
    I'm sure I've done this with my friends as well. I'm actually well aware of roadblocks, but I never feel like those are things need to be aired out in conversation. I mean, who doesn't have roadblocks and difficulties in life?

    When I've happy-bombed my friends like your coworker has, it's my way of showing them that life can take inexplicable turns for the better sometimes. Maybe you'll get a financial aid package to help you through school. Maybe you can get family members and friends to help out. You don't know what will happen in the future, so why dwell on the obstacles in your mind -- I guess that's my take on things.

    Of course, I'm talking about material obstacles here, not emotional obstacles. I'm all for airing out and discussing emotional obstacles. That's the Fi, perhaps?
    Happy bombed! I hate being happy bombed. :SaiyanSmilie_anim: Just joking, but not really.
    How do people who resist being happy bombed come across to you? Oh, and to let you know my Ne sucks so to have all those Ne maybes flying at me just is like 'Do you hear what I'm saying to you?' I've thought about those things and it's probably been decided it's a no-go. I cannot help myself; I will always go with those handful of things most likely to happen over the myriad of things that may happen. I do the maybe this and maybe that too so that may not be a distinguishing factor, but my maybes and mights are what I've figured are the real outcomes of situations.

    I just want to make it clear that I'm definitely a person that tells myself and others to TRY. I do believe in trying and seeing what could happen because for so many things you don't know the outcome and it may very well turn out in your favor. My trying has been successful in virtually all situations that I've put the effort into. I always say try after assessing the situation and seeing that your effort won't be fruitless and wasted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    Perahps you are picking up on a twist of the P/J theme. For you I would guess you use Fe to give structure to your long term plans. So you build them, notice very clearly the emotional/social/disruptive aspects of the plan and then have to identify conciously how to circumvent them, in order to make a stable Fe plan. This is not all roses and candy. Let me know if this sounds at all correct...could be BS.
    Sounds good to me...and I was mostly definitely thinking about the emotionally/social disruptions that can not just the material/financial ones. On the family front I think 'do I want to overburden my siblings with taking care of my parents while I'm off in school?' 'Will I be willing to do the same if they decide they want to go to school?' 'Will I be able to handle the pressure of working and going to school?' 'What if the program I'm interested is on the other side of the country' I mean all these questions can't be ignored or remain unanswered for me and I'm not comfortable winging it with such major issues.

    For me, I will set a long term Te goal and once set I WILL NOT QUIT. For instance going to school as a single mom. My days may be all over the place, moody Fi-ing looniness, silly spasticity, however Te holds me strongly accountable in the longterm. Since it isnt a dom or aux Te though, I have a hard time clearly delineating individual steps. So the goal-finish my BS in biochemistry-driven by Te, but on a daily basis motivated by NeFi curious enthusiasm and emo affirmation maybe? It worked well for undergrad but leaving grad school with an MS was so hard for me-I felt like a horrific drop out.

    So your enfp is applying what will work with an enfp onto an ENFJ and it doesn't translate well?
    The spirit of it translated. I wouldn't even so much mind if it was just me and my own personal risk with no one else who would be affected, but since I know that my decisions right now affect others I can't help but modify my decisions based on how they affect my family. What would be most helpful to me is the encouragement+a plan of action and healthy NFPs are good at helping people see the light at the end of tunnel.

    I think maybe when NFPs do their whole happy bomb thing, for those who you see reacting like you're tossing mustard gas in their eyes, maybe it would be helpful if you toned down the fantasticalness of it down and get people to say why they think whatever they believe is an obstacle is hampering them from achieving their goals. In doing this, people don't feel like a pessimistic loser for just not trying hard enough or believing enough because it may be turning them off rather than turning them on.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  10. #20
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    nope makes total sense to me ne monster...nicely explained, thanks.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

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