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[ENFP] ENFP and Negativity

penelope

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Ugh. Another relationship thing.

Actually, quick update: I'm more of an INTJ these days, so I guess keep that into consideration? But this is more about my ENFP guy...

So far, we've been doing amazingly as a couple, solving all of our issues as soon as they pop up, but this one... I just don't know what to do, and it's wearing on my own patience and is causing me to become really frustrated to the point of passive-aggressive lashing out, which is pretty pointless and stupid, which I realize.

So yeah, he's got this issue with generally having a negative attitude and has been warning me of it, but it's a long distance relationship and I don't see him too often, though I just got back from spending the weekend with him. He was pretty negative most of the time, and yeah, that was wearing on my patience. And just now we got into a fight over how I'm not acknowledging this about him. And maybe, in my head, because I cling to keeping a positive attitude about things (it doesn't make any sense to me to be negative...), I just try to let it slide. But he's accusing me of it really being my own problem in not knowing how to deal with his negativity and how he says that just won't change.

I'm at a loss... how do I deal with this?
 

Tikka

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He's demoralizing the building team, huh?

First, I don't think you can change people at a deep level. If this is really how he feels, then you can ask him to put up a facade, but that won't change him.

Is the negativity directed at himself, close surroundings or the world? ENFx's tend to blame all faults on themselves after trying to make everybody happy. A negative backlash after having been sociable, so to say.
 

penelope

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He's demoralizing the building team, huh?

First, I don't think you can change people at a deep level. If this is really how he feels, then you can ask him to put up a facade, but that won't change him.

Is the negativity directed at himself, close surroundings or the world? ENFx's tend to blame all faults on themselves after trying to make everybody happy. A negative backlash after having been sociable, so to say.

I think much of it was due to things not going his way or generally feeling uncomfortable/not at complete ease (met his parents this weekend, etc). And it seems mostly directed to himself, but since we're in a relationship, it of course seeps into his attitude when dealing with me.

And yeah, I realize it's not something that will change, but with relationships, a compromise needs to be made to keep things going smoothly and if he says that his negativity isn't something that will change, then it seems that the fact that my patience does eventually run out will not change. Just not sure how to handle this.
 

Tikka

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So, how did the weekend go then? Was it a good weekend, outside of between you and him? Were you genuinely happy to have met his parents - were they nice people for you - and were they happy to meet you?

Or wasn't it what he was expecting, and therefore showing his disappointment?
 

Amargith

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How long has he been this way, what triggered it exactly and how is he dealing for now?

Coz usually we just need some space to figure things out in our head. If we keep going in circles though, others might be able to help us break the cycle. Just don't do that before he's done ranting, venting and trying to do it himself :D
 

penelope

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So, how did the weekend go then? Was it a good weekend, outside of between you and him? Were you genuinely happy to have met his parents - were they nice people for you - and were they happy to meet you?

Or wasn't it what he was expecting, and therefore showing his disappointment?

To me, it was a great weekend. I loved meeting his parents--they're great people and I was very comfortable. But I think his negativity applies to two different things: when things do go according to plan/don't fit his ideal, or when he feels uncomfortable. And there was quite a bit of both. I can understand him feeling uncomfortable, with me meeting his parents, hanging out at their home. But it's probably more of an issue with me when he reacts to things not going his way... he gets very negative, can't seem to let go of the circumstances or make the best of it (which is how I react to things going awry). And there was a lot of both.

So I suppose a better, more broad question: how does a positive person deal with a negative person? Might i need to better understand his negativity and therefore be able to be more patient and understanding? Because, like I said before, once my patience runs out, I become very negative and bitter myself. So then, we're just two, negative, bitter people. Blah.
 

penelope

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Coz usually we just need some space to figure things out in our head. If we keep going in circles though, others might be able to help us break the cycle. Just don't do that before he's done ranting, venting and trying to do it himself :D

That makes sense to me, and I don't know if he knows that himself or if that's his deal, but he needs to express that to me if it's the case... Hm.
 

Tikka

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ENFx's do not like to talk about themselves automatically, or actually they don't like people helping *them* , as Amargith aptly said.

I'm surprised however, that he doesn't see/think that negativity is bad for any relationship, not just yours. It's demoralizing.
 

Amargith

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That makes sense to me, and I don't know if he knows that himself or if that's his deal, but he needs to express that to me if it's the case... Hm.

We...tend to overload and try and hide that from others, especially those we care about, to shield you from all that's going on in our brain. But yeah, we will be crabby if you then do not give us that space and no, we won't be aware that that's offputting to you. At that point we're so flooded by emotions that they kinda drown out the part of us that realizes how you must be feeling. And it is unlikely he's aware of that process or of what he's doing.

Fi goes in circles till it figures itself out. Unfortunately, it *is* part of who we are. And some of us aren't really aware of that, we just go through it. The best thing to do, if you can, is to not take it personally, leave him alone or let him rant at you if that's what he wants to do, be a sounding board and whatever you do, do *not* try to solve stuff. Assume he's smart enough to figure this out himself, unless he's specifically asking for your help. Usually, unless we're brooding, we'll appreciate physical affection especially when given by a non-judgemental person. Hugging, an understanding look, a soft touch on the shoulders, all very much helpful and comforting (at least if he's ok with having you see him in this state).

Important detail: He is to come out of this after a certain period of time (one week, two weeks tops!). If he doesn't, it's time to go digging and for the tough love treatment. Coz that usually means we keep going in circles and something is keeping us in that circle. Expect to get yelled at. And expect to yell at him. Then let him cool off and process. Afterwards, act as if nothing happened.

I'm NOT stating this is all your responsibility. It is my hope that he eventually figures out how this works. He needs to learn it. But it is a good way to deal with us when we're like that :)
 

Nonsensical

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Penelope, this sounds like he's upset about something, but not telling you.

I think it might be a form of passive aggressiveness. I can have a negative attitude when I am feeling sad/frustrated but don't feel like openly discussing or worrying about it.

Maybe he is upset that it is long distance? I bet he really misses you, and maybe he is getting mad because of it. But what do I know.

Your best bet is to intimately start a conversation with him. Confront him and tell him what you have told us, he won't get mad. If anything, he will feel guilty. I don't mean you need to make him feel guilty, though.

Sometimes you need to check ENFPs when they are getting out of hand. Talk to him personally and tell him how you feel. If he cares about you (which it sounds like he does) then he will work really hard on changing. But know there is probably a reason for his negative attitude, which you should also try to uncover.
 

penelope

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Yeah... this issue just lead to our first real fight, so I'm freaking out a bit right now and not sure what to do. He is saying that he thinks I'm just infatuated with him and now that I've seen this one big part of him (his negativity) this relationship isn't going to work. He's saying that I don't really know him and is essentially putting the blame on me. I'm done being defensive... I just want to come out of this with a solution and I have absolutely no clue what's going to get him out of it too.

Aghhhhhhhh.
 

Amargith

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LOL..omg, really?
Yeah, he's insecure that you are going to judge him over who he really is, and is feeling really vulnerable and pushing you away on purpose. This is the shadow side shock-thing that we do. To see if you're able to love the person we *really* are, instead of that dream guy you fell for. We're kinda used to people not *seeing* the real us, as they're too busy looking at the mirage we automatically conjure. (sorry, being arrogant, but it is a common problem for us).

It's up to you. He's showing you a part of his dark side. Can you live with it? If so, reassure him, and show him that you love him inspite of those aspects. If not..he might have a point and a good reason to do this now...
 

Nonsensical

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Tell him you are going to make things work. Tell him you are going to learn to work with his negativity and that he should also learn to control it.

If you can't get to the bottom of it, then try this. It's what I would do, because I certainly can relate to wanting to just solve it as fast as possible.
 

penelope

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LOL..omg, really?
Yeah, he's insecure that you are going to judge him over who he really is, and is feeling really vulnerable and pushing you away on purpose. This is the shadow side shock-thing that we do. To see if you're able to love the person we *really* are, instead of that dream guy you fell for. We're kinda used to people not *seeing* the real us, as they're too busy looking at the mirage we automatically conjure. (sorry, being arrogant, but it is a common problem for us).

It's up to you. He's showing you a part of his dark side. Can you live with it? If so, reassure him, and show him that you love him inspite of those aspects. If not..he might have a point and a good reason to do this now...

And that's exactly his case...

Yeah, this is actually not the first time I've dealt with the "dark side" because we had broken up twice before due to it, but then he came to his senses and decided that I was the only person that could possibly deal with him and vice versa, and it's been this amazing relationship since. The dark side that showed itself before (and believe me, it was pretty bad... he went through hell to get me to take him back a couple months ago) was along the lines of this same issue we're facing now... and he's acting like he did before. So not only does it scare me that he's going to be irrational and break it off like he did before, but I'm scared that he's actually doing this again... he had essentially promised me that it wouldn't happen again. I don't want to lose what he and I have, though, so I did just what you suggested: let him know that I love each and every aspect of him as best as I could, and I'm really hoping that it will help. I just don't know what to do.

(our "fight" is over the internet between emails, since he's at work...)
 

Amargith

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Accept him for who he is. And realize that he loves you. Otherwise he wouldn't do this, nor would he come back to you. Yes he needs to learn to deal with it, but it's just one of his flaws. He'll love you even more if you accept and even love him for it. Don't respond to it, smile at it even, and understand where it comes from. The stronger your emotional reaction, the more you'll be feeding his fears, paranoia and emotional response to it

Whenever I get this way, mad at the world, stuck in my own world, my SO just smiles, understands that it's not him and waits for me to figure it out. It hurts him to see me hurting like that, but he also knows that the only thing that will help is him being there for me and patiently waiting it out. It's soothing to know that he will not pressure me, and will give me that space, as it will reduce the guilt I feel about having that problem and take the pressure off (somethign that just gives me a mental block otherwise).

There is nothing you can do more for him than to let him know that no matter what kinda crazy ass stunt he comes up with, he can always come back to you and you will still love him, regardless. I'm not saying that you should tolerate bad behavior. But if you know him, you'll also know whether or not he'll milk it or is genuinly struggling. If he's struggling, don't blame him. He's trying :)

My INTJ functions as my steady rock in the ocean that is my emotions. I love him dearly for that as at least something in my life is stable. It is however up to you to decide whether or not you are up for that and are willing to do so :)
 

penelope

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I'm very happy to hear that, Amargith, it sounds like my relationship with my ENFP, and that's what I needed to hear. Whew. I sure hope this whole thing blows over, and that he calms down before he says or decides anything major. In the past, he's overreacted and acted on that, ending things or at least damaging them near to being beyond repair.
 

Amargith

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I'm very happy to hear that, Amargith, it sounds like my relationship with my ENFP, and that's what I needed to hear. Whew. I sure hope this whole thing blows over, and that he calms down before he says or decides anything major. In the past, he's overreacted and acted on that, ending things or at least damaging them near to being beyond repair.


We...can be a challenging lot, no doubt :)
But I've been told it is apparently very much worth it :blush:

I'm going to repost my edit here so you can see it. Hope it's useful to you ;)


"Concretely, I'd tell him that you realize this fight isn't about you two, it's about his insecurities. And I'd tell him that no matter how he feels about himself, I still love him coz of all the great things he's apparently blind for. And I'll patiently wait for him to figure it out. And if he wants to tell me something, or needs me to listen, he knows where to find me. And I'd tell him I aint going nowhere. Coz I love him for this and this and this reason.

It's what he needs to hear :)"
 

penelope

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We...can be a challenging lot, no doubt :)
But I've been told it is apparently very much worth it :blush:

I'm going to repost my edit here so you can see it. Hope it's useful to you ;)


"Concretely, I'd tell him that you realize this fight isn't about you two, it's about his insecurities. And I'd tell him that no matter how he feels about himself, I still love him coz of all the great things he's apparently blind for. And I'll patiently wait for him to figure it out. And if he wants to tell me something, or needs me to listen, he knows where to find me. And I'd tell him I aint going nowhere. Coz I love him for this and this and this reason.

It's what he needs to hear :)"

And that's exactly what I've just done. Thanks so much. :) Now I'm just about near a panic attack waiting to hear back...
 

Amargith

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And that's exactly what I've just done. Thanks so much. :) Now I'm just about near a panic attack waiting to hear back...

Awesome, you're a fast learner :D

Now, just breathe, and if he doesn't immediately respond, realize he's probably processing and still wrestling with some feelings. No need to panic :D
 

CzeCze

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The negativity is most likely anxiety that doesn't know how to get constructively directed. Fi can make you really care about things (for better or worse) to the point it's hard to be direct and to the point about them. So that adds to the anxiety factor and he basically doesn't know another way to deal with it.

If you can figure out what his core fears are and what exactly he is unhappy about and reassure him or at least get it on the table, I think he will calm down.

The good thing is that EPs are pretty good with unknowns and going with the flow (which is necessary in long distance), so he should be alright with the situation and lighten up once he gets that core assurance.
 
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