[INFP] Male INFPs = Nice Guy/Average Frustrated Chump

[Synapse]

This is an unfortunate by product of society dating back a long way and perputuated by males. Women who try to break out of this stereotype are labeled "aggressive." I think this can hardly be blamed on the female gender.

You have a point, a lot of the subconscious expectations are based from traditions and stereotypes.


That got me to wonder about the attraction process.

Talking to an attractive woman really can make a man lose his mind. lol
High testosterone in women makes them more attracted to masculine actors such as Daniel Craig, with men favouring the femininity typified by Natalie Portman.

 

[Scott N Denver]

Yes the biological clock too, the most masculine reference, the most seemingly able to push the right buttons for the sexual attractions gets the rewards.

I watched Beauty and the Geek some time ago. The show placed geeks with babes and had competitions. The interesting aspect for me was when an additional Hunk and geeky girl was introduced. The sleaze factor was a turn on and he was flirting and sleeping around, saying being attractive is a 24/7 occupation, he was a bar person. While the babes expressed their emotionality with the geeks who listened, the hunk scored. And visa vis, the geeks liked the geeky girl more because they know they had no chance with the babes.

Exaggerated example but amused by the premise.

I would just like to point out that the season you refer to does not match the season whose picture you used.

 

[Synapse]

I would just like to point out that the season you refer to does not match the season whose picture you used.

omg called out, hahah, yeah you are right. I'm a slacker.

 

[Scott N Denver]

omg called out, hahah, yeah you are right. I'm a slacker.

We want more BatG pictures!

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

You are missing the point and thanks for answering.

I was bringing to the fore why nice guys may be seen as jerky schmucks.
And that the perception is off, to present how this would feel for a girl had she had to deal with loneliness without attraction and I’d like to add a biological clock. Yes you can say you'd focus on work, but the fact is your ability to perform would be drastically different then. Then imagine that INFP men are expected to be initiators and masculine when they are neither. Then imagine that a women is brought up in an environment that fosters her needs to emotional intelligence and her social quotient is satisfied much more, as is her drive with a biological clock. In that sense after a relationship you have your baby, then your direction, social needs are maintained. You created life that is propping you up, the loneliness is that much greater for men. Well that is my theory.

My mother does this and she is married, she is so incredibly lonely she is now a compulsive mess without restraint and will drive any sane person a bit batty. And that's in a relationship with a husband who lacks emotional intelligence.

I'm trying to challenge the ideas, and the psychology behind the nice effect. Because then yeah women will be just as clingy and whiny with prolonged loneliness.

Hi there! i'm sorry but i'm just not following you here. if you feel like elaborating, i'd appreciate that. I guess we were talking about two different things regarding women. i was talking about women who can't find Mr Right for whatever reason(s), and how they can become more independent along the way, not clingy.

If anyone, women or men, 'settle' for someone not their type, then i see long term consequences on the horizon for them. Or maybe not every relationship is meant to last very long; there are many paradigms for relationship.

The key, I believe, for a person trying to find a mate, is figuring out who he is, and dealing with any issues from life he may have accumulated, if any, that could make him unable to love someone else 100%. Then, after he has done that, he can figure out what type woman he really needs/desires. If he desires one type for, say sex or fun, but another type to marry, there is a problem there, imo, and he wouldn't appear to be ready to find a mate, or settle down. I'm not saying you are like this at all. I'm speaking generally.

However, you talk of 'hunks' and 'babes' and post pics of a group of perfect stereotypical hotties, then you complain about not being able to find a nice woman who wants you. Just sayin'. Maybe you are conflicted yourself as to what you want. Maybe you are subconsciously sending out that message that nice women pick up on. Do you want a smart, nice companion, or do you want a hot babe to hang on your arm like a trophy?

But, like most guys, you prolly want both.

Hey, if INFP guys need a woman to initiate and stuff, I am sure it wouldn't be hard to find that kind of woman. If prisoners on death row can find a woman to love them through being mere pen pals, I am sure hooking up with a woman wouldn't be too difficult, even for an INFP male.

 

[Udog]

I was bringing to the fore why nice guys may be seen as jerky schmucks.

You want to know what the difference between a nice guy and a bad boy is? The difference is not that big... It is that bad boys are honest about their intentions, while nice guys lie about them.

They both want the same thing, though: To sleep with attractive women. Bad boys are just honest and persistent about it. Nice guys pretend to be friends, and it's that hidden agenda that makes them seem like jerky schmucks.

 

[Synapse]

Hi there! i'm sorry but i'm just not following you here. if you feel like elaborating, i'd appreciate that. I guess we were talking about two different things regarding women. i was talking about women who can't find Mr Right for whatever reason(s), and how they can become more independent along the way, not clingy.

If anyone, women or men, 'settle' for someone not their type, then i see long term consequences on the horizon for them. Or maybe not every relationship is meant to last very long; there are many paradigms for relationship.

The key, I believe, for a person trying to find a mate, is figuring out who he is, and dealing with any issues from life he may have accumulated, if any, that could make him unable to love someone else 100%. Then, after he has done that, he can figure out what type woman he really needs/desires. If he desires one type for, say sex or fun, but another type to marry, there is a problem there, imo, and he wouldn't appear to be ready to find a mate, or settle down. I'm not saying you are like this at all. I'm speaking generally.

However, you talk of 'hunks' and 'babes' and post pics of a group of perfect stereotypical hotties, then you complain about not being able to find a nice woman who wants you. Just sayin'. Maybe you are conflicted yourself as to what you want. Maybe you are subconsciously sending out that message that nice women pick up on. Do you want a smart, nice companion, or do you want a hot babe to hang on your arm like a trophy?

But, like most guys, you prolly want both.

Hey, if INFP guys need a woman to initiate and stuff, I am sure it wouldn't be hard to find that kind of woman. If prisoners on death row can find a woman to love them through being mere pen pals, I am sure hooking up with a woman wouldn't be too difficult, even for an INFP male.

(Do you want a smart, nice companion, or do you want a hot babe to hang on your arm like a trophy?)

Neither nice nor a trophy thanks. I want to know my partner as an equal who shares the responsibility and maturity when confronted with the ego mind that tends to attract unbalanced anima animus projections. To share the self away from the stereotypes that manifest in the sub culture of the subconscious mind that represents the inequity of what this realm of relationships represent. For then when you can do that can you truly start to know yourself and your significant other. Otherwise the relationships are mirrors reflecting the constant that is the familiar reality from past expirences in present form. That would be kind of sad then, to realise a decade down the time line that you've been dating a mother image, a father image, a family or friends image and neither willing to communicate or have the maturity to get past this to a truer, a healthier image of what it means to self actualise together rather than holding onto false images that seemed familiar but are too raw to live with. Then end up like magnets totally repelled and wonder why on earth are you moving from image after image only for this to be a short lived experience. while a needed experience. for all relationships are needed in personal growth to that which is most wanted, a partner to match your emotional, spiritual, intellectual, physical and sexual realities as much as possible.

I understand what you are saying. I should have responded to your views properly before going into tangent which was probably directed at OrangeAppled. Wanted to challenge thought perception and expressed conflicted ideas. Because it is entirely too confronting to present the raw insecurity forward. This is as much a females health as it is a males health. For the programming is so well entrenched its astonishing. But then that leaves me to answer why am I single then. Easy, family image put fear into my heart. This loop has been reset recently. And the very instruments that are indicators for health have until recently been switched off like a tap, the initiative, communication and personality which reduces communications needs and wants.

 

[OrangeAppled]

What gets me is the lines underneath it all. While the ladies signal their intentions the blokes have to do the asking. In other words you passively indicate what you want and generally expect the opposite sex to ask. And being born attractive or a female normally this aspect becomes easy. To the point you receive unwanted attention all the time. Then imagine if you had a starvation, as a role reversal, to be placed in the other side for a sec. The difference then would be completely different.

Why does he not evaluate his actions and how they lead to these results. But see isn't that just the quagmire, actions vs intentions. Yes Honest self analysis and changes are needed in both men and women, men more so that are unsuccessful but for goodness sakes, women shouldn't be scott free from this either. The self analysis and changes which is far easier when you have an action man around to push the flaws in a croner and not bother seeing your own insecurities and vulnerabilities. As much as it is hard for the bloke to do, the ego mind is a curiosity yeah. Especially in terms of a persons ability to be healthy, willingness to change, to have the awareness. Yes naturally to acknowledge the flaws.

Just saying. sheepish grin.

Either I'm totally ugly and unattractive or the top bolded is not true.

This is another myth that so-called "nice guys" tout. Not all women, or even all attractive women, have an easy time dating with men falling into their laps and we just pick and choose. I wish!!!! I go looong stretches with little to no male attention. I do have to make a lot of effort to put myself out there & be vulnerable to get any sincere male attention.

I am shy and have had a very hard time dating, but it's MY problem. It's not men's fault that I seem aloof. It's not their fault that I don't send clear signals of interest (which for women include being flirty & very warm). These are my issues I have to work on. I don't sit around bemoaning the fact that men can approach women without implications of being desperate, slutty, cougars, whatever. The fact of the matter is, in dating, both genders must make a substantial effort and will be faced with certain gender expectations to live up to. Neither has an easy time.

 

[rainoneventide]

I'd say the "bad" guys are the ones that act interested just to get laid. The "nice" ones are actually interested in getting to know someone. I mean, of course they'll want sex too, but that's not their main objective.

It all comes down to self-confidence, again. A guy surrounded by flocks of girls may look confident, but it might also be a facade to cover his insecurities--his insecurity that girls won't accept him as anything other than a "player". Also, the types of girls these guys attract are probably not ones you would normally be interested in if you were comfortable being yourself. They might also be just as insecure; you'll never know.

Moreover, those "bad" guys usually move from one short term relationship to another. There isn't anything necessarily bad with that.

What I'm trying to say is... you know how pyrite looks like real gold?

Being yourself is a tough, lifelong process, but at the end of the day you'll feel a lot better.

I don't know if any of this has been said earlier, I just kind of absorbed the previous posts and spat this out, lol.

 

[Silence11]

The pick-up definition of AFC refers to a man who is needy, clingy, relationship starved, and LACKS PERSONAL BOUNDERIES. He will do whatever the woman tells him. He will be totally dependent on her acceptance of him.

While an INFP male may act in this manner, this is generally characteristic of all men who have not had that much experience with women and view an especially attractive woman as somewhat of a scarcity.

At their best, a mature INFP can be especially whitty, intuitive, and of course INFP's are known for sticking to their personal values. INFP's have very strong personal bounderies about the things that are important to them. While I wouldn't suggest that INFP's are "naturals" with women, I believe that they can develop themselves to become very good with women, as they generally, intuitively get how to trigger attraction. If you look at the pick-up community, some of the best pick-up artists in the world I would suspect are INFPs. I would not agree that the definition of an AFC describes an INFP.

Of course, I'm an INFP... so I may be a bit biased.

 

[Synapse]

Either I'm totally ugly and unattractive or the top bolded is not true.

This is another myth that so-called "nice guys" tout. Not all women, or even all attractive women, have an easy time dating with men falling into their laps and we just pick and choose. I wish!!!! I go looong stretches with little to no male attention. I do have to make a lot of effort to put myself out there & be vulnerable to get any sincere male attention.

I am shy and have had a very hard time dating, but it's MY problem. It's not men's fault that I seem aloof. It's not their fault that I don't send clear signals of interest (which for women include being flirty & very warm). These are my issues I have to work on. I don't sit around bemoaning the fact that men can approach women without implications of being desperate, slutty, cougars, whatever. The fact of the matter is, in dating, both genders must make a substantial effort and will be faced with certain gender expectations to live up to. Neither has an easy time.

Fair enough. Tough on both sides of the coin at times then.

If the ladies are all about intention and signals and the blokes are all about action and such. How would INFP's be succeed when lacking action and easier with intentions. Imagines prom nights, the girls have intention and the boys have intention. Wouldn't translate well. Besides I was pointing out black and white thinking in terms of how the entire relationship ideology is viewed. In many ways life experience, older people will dispense with the games younger people play and have both intention and action I suppose. And that is where the health of a person comes into play both sides of the equation personally, its all good though.

 

[LEGERdeMAIN]

I don't feel like the typical nice guy. I was in a relatively long relationship, which was both awesome and horrible, and after that ended I decided to try different ways of, um...dating. What seems to work best for most of the women I've dated is sending well-timed mixed signals of interest and indifference.

I suppose that experimenting and finding different ways to solve dating issues would be easy for an infp. It's the acting on those solutions that's difficult.

It's unfortunate, probably, that I still prefer women who have self-respect and don't play games and don't have the urge to have fifteen children with fifteen different fathers and have their own goals and blah blah blah...... Those are a rare to find and difficult to "keep". >KJLKJIOJKLJD:FOIDJ

 

[Biaxident]

It's unfortunate, probably, that I still prefer women who have self-respect and don't play games and don't have the urge to have fifteen children with fifteen different fathers and have their own goals and blah blah blah...... Those are a rare to find and difficult to "keep". >KJLKJIOJKLJD:FOIDJ

Yeah...Once we let them vote, there was no going back to the good ol' days...

 

[jtanSis1]

so what to all of this. INFP males want the true thing and are willing to wait for it. It's an example to all others what true love should look like without the rush or the intent, but for it all to happen naturally and unfold at its own pace so that it lasts forever. If NF's are idealists, then INFP's would be the type that is the internal ideal, not just looking for it.

 

[Goatman455]

I don't know about you but I feel like this. According to the titular article on Wikipedia an Average Frustrated Chump is described as:


I think that Male INFPs pretty much represent the stereotypical "nice guy" archetype, in that, we are often quite sensitive and reserved when it comes to speaking with the opposite sex/love interests. I often notice myself avoiding girls in general to spare myself the embarrassment of becoming so flustered and end up stuttering/totally making an idiot of myself, and I'm sure that there must be other INFPs who feel the same way.

I have a hard time believing that women truly want a "nice guy" as they say they do, especially when you see so many women with such jerk-offs, you know?

The issue here that you are missing is not giving a crap. Women respond to the confidence. For some reason or another, many women are looking for a guy who doesn't seem overly interested. This is the very reason women tend to get screwed over by guys, because for today's day and age their instincts tend to be 'off' on who the nice guys are. Also, like everyone else, they look at physical attractiveness too.

I think many women are instinctively afraid of stalker types, many not realize the modern stalker is that nice guy at the bar who seems too good to be true. I also think that if a guy seems to desperate they just know he isn't experienced in relationships and is therefore undesirable. The initial impression is all about stereotypes unfortunately, even for people who aren't shallow.

Be yourself, don't give a crap, even if you like the girl, treat her you would normally treat a stranger you just met, and I think you will have much more success. I know it can be hard to just shut off the nervousness if you like a girl, but the INFPs I know can be very casually funny and charming when they are just being themselves and comfortable. THIS is what the women will like, but of course, everyone changes around the opposite sex but if you can try your best to be yourself, I think you will be much better off.

Go out and make it a goal to get rejected like 4 times in a night. Sounds stupid, but if you can handle getting rejected by a girl you are into, then you won't have any problems. Most successful guys I know get rejected quite a bit, more than they score. Now that isn't exactly a lot of NFs style, but I think trying something a bit different might work.

 

[runvardh]

Sounds like attempting to gain immunity to iocane powder. I guess having the goal of rejection is a paradigm shift that would help with dealling. Interesting.

 

[SciVo]

That's one way of looking at it, runvardh. Another might be like life insurance salesmen, who must face nine rejections for every success at a cold call. The 1/3 natural optimists who falsely perceive control over random events do much better in that kind of job than the rest of us, because they're working in a situation where probability is independent, which is unnatural.

This is related to how casinos sucker so many people who instinctively expect dependent probabilities because of how life is. If three people from your village are eaten by tigers on the path to the watering hole, then maybe you should find a different source of water -- but most casino games have independent probabilities, where (for example) the last roll of the dice has no relation at all to the next one.

Since every person is different, it's theoretically logical to treat dating like an insurance salesman and remain as optimistic after the ninth rejection as after the first. However, you're the single most common factor in your attempts at relationships; so, it's also rational to get another perspective on your role in creating your reality.

Um. I haven't actually solved this problem yet. Good luck, and stuff!

 

[Ginkgo]

To a male INFP, a romantic relationship may look like the following scenario...

Mr. Turtle is on the side of the road. There is a turtle with a smokin' hot shell on the other side of the road. However, Mr. Turtle doesn't like superficial turtle babes, so he decides to observe the lady turtle from afar.

After days of contemplation, INFP turtle finally comes to the conclusion that the female turtle would be an AMAZING mate. However, INFP turtle knows that there are futuristic death cars coming from both directions of the road. Because his Ne sees possible future failures, he is terrified of making a move.

One day, the lady turtle hits it off with the big, outgoing, macho Galapagos Tortuous living a few blocks away. Consequentially, INFP turtle spirals into a deep depression and either a.) jumps into the middle of the road to kill himself or b.) makes love to the knothole in a nearby tree stump.

 

[Silence11]

To a male INFP, a romantic relationship may look like the following scenario...

Mr. Turtle is on the side of the road. There is a turtle with a smokin' hot shell on the other side of the road. However, Mr. Turtle doesn't like superficial turtle babes, so he decides to observe the lady turtle from afar.

After days of contemplation, INFP turtle finally comes to the conclusion that the female turtle would be an AMAZING mate. However, INFP turtle knows that there are futuristic death cars coming from both directions of the road. Because his Ne sees possible future failures, he is terrified of making a move.

One day, the lady turtle hits it off with the big, outgoing, macho Galapagos Tortuous living a few blocks away. Consequentially, INFP turtle spirals into a deep depression and either a.) jumps into the middle of the road to kill himself or b.) makes love to the knothole in a nearby tree stump.

That's genius!

 

[LEGERdeMAIN]

To a male INFP, a romantic relationship may look like the following scenario...

Mr. Turtle is on the side of the road. There is a turtle with a smokin' hot shell on the other side of the road. However, Mr. Turtle doesn't like superficial turtle babes, so he decides to observe the lady turtle from afar.

After days of contemplation, INFP turtle finally comes to the conclusion that the female turtle would be an AMAZING mate. However, INFP turtle knows that there are futuristic death cars coming from both directions of the road. Because his Ne sees possible future failures, he is terrified of making a move.

One day, the lady turtle hits it off with the big, outgoing, macho Galapagos Tortuous living a few blocks away. Consequentially, INFP turtle spirals into a deep depression and either a.) jumps into the middle of the road to kill himself or b.) makes love to the knothole in a nearby tree stump.

I don't know. INFP turtle could very well have a violent fit of jealous rage and push the tortoise off of an abutment and into a deep drainage well.