[INFJ] INFJ Grudges? * help please :( *

[substitute]

Ditto.

The thing is you're just never going to believe any experiences that contradict yours. And that's totally fine, although a type does not tell you everything a person is going to be. Thinking "Oh, she's INFJ thus she must hold grudges," is dangerous IMO and seems like misuse of typology. And the whining about every type that irritates you makes me go :rolli:.

don't tell me what my thoughts and motives are, k? you can say that you think this and that of me or that you think I think this or that, but don't state it like it's a fact. it's that you do that, and always attribute your own meanings and motivations to the things I say, that's actually why I find discussing with you so stressful and decided not to.

I'm quite happy to believe experiences that contradict mine - they very often make me see mine in a different light. I believe Jenna when she says that's not how she feels inside.

I'm just pointing out the contrast (as an extravert who's generally quite up on how things look on the outside to an introvert who's quite prone to forgetting things out there aren't always as they are in their head) between how you see yourself and what your own motivations are in your own head, and how they might come across and make you look to others.

You and I are a case in point. I utterly do not see myself or my views or behaviour the way you see me, though since only you and people similar to you have so far seen me that way (believe me, I get told what a lot of different people think of me, an awful lot), I can only presume that it's the opposite working in action - rather than an introvert's internal self slamming up against a contradictory image the outside world has of them, I'm an extravert with my external self slamming up against your internal misconceptions of me.

edit - from here, not addressed to LA

I'm not saying that, just because someone sees you as a grudge holder, that means you are one. Just that you behave in ways similar to one, and the main differences are inside your mind and not generally shared with the rest of us who, not being clairvoyant, tend to draw the obvious conclusion. The solution if you don't like being seen that way would be to share those thoughts that make the difference between you and a grudge holder, more often.

And FFS people, quit this tedious attribution of everything I say on the subject of INFJ's to my "experiences". Jesus, they were years ago. I'm over them already. I'm a type naturally inclined towards detachment anyway. I am a grown-up. I'm 32 years old and have two children. I tie my own shoe laces. I can have a conversation about something without having to bring all my past issues into it. Hoy! *throws hands up in Jewish gesture of exasperation*

 

[Lauren Ashley]

don't tell me what my thoughts and motives are, k? you can say that you think this and that of me or that you think I think this or that, but don't state it like it's a fact.

Oh, isn't irony the word of the day here? See how it feels to be told what you think?

 

[cascadeco]

Personally I don't hold grudges - just seems an utter waste of energy and focus. It may take me a span of time to process a situation or move beyond more negative feelings about a situation or a person to neutral feelings, but holding a grudge is an utter waste of mental/emotional effort to me. There's no purpose for my own mental well-being to keep holding onto the negative energy, so I must find ways to process and move on (although I also have to add, anger/grudge is one emotion I truly don't experience much of, at all, so it in and of itself is kind of foreign to me and I can't really relate to the thread that much). And once I move on, I move on. It may mean I have no desire to interact with the person anymore, but it doesn't mean I harbor any angst against them - just means I see no point in their being in my life, as neither of us are mutually beneficial for each other anymore. And to be perfectly honest, I find grudges kind of immature, mostly because I always see so many sides to any situation, and typically understand the other persons' pov and thus tend to have difficulty getting angry at people in general. Again: I understand and relate to needing processing time - and to the OP, that's a pretty big event, lots of sorting through to do - but holding onto things for a matter of years? (let alone having that angst for months?) I think not. That would cause me to decay within.

 

[violaine]

outrageous to try and say it's not an INFJ thing to hold grudges. just outrageous!

they like, founded and run the national university of grudge holding! srsly!

You really must have known some toxic ones Sub the way you talk about INFJs. It may be the case with the ones you know but it's not an INFJ thing.

e.g. I don't hold grudges. I was brought up to believe that was the low road to take. And! It takes too much energy. I have had long term resentment towards one girl. Even that I proactively sorted out in order not to be bothered by those feelings. (Yes, she deserved it and it took me a long time of constantly forgiving her for backstabbing me before I realized she was out to get me and then disliked her. Now I couldn't care less.) I can definitely dislike people and do but I try and get over it because I feel terribly guilty for feeling that way. I feel like, who am I to judge someone else harshly with my feelings? I don't know what they have been through in their life. Even if they are being an ass to me, I don't trust my initial dislike. (Now if they are constantly an ass... well we call that the doorslam in the INFJ biz. )

Back to the OP, I agree with what a few posters have said in that if I were your sister I would be processing the enormity of everything. It would take time because an INFJ is all about trying to make sense of their feelings and come to terms with things. At those times of heavy processing, all of my energy will go towards that and conceivably I may not be very aware of how I am behaving. :/

I agree with Wyst in that if it were me I would be lamenting that I had my biological father right there all those years and never really knew. That would tear me up inside. And I think that would be something an INFJ could get particularly hung up on. As natural optimizers, INFJs can tend to pay attention to and expend a great deal of mental energy on 'what is missing'. To have had what I didn't know for sure wasn't missing for all those years would really take some processing. Especially as it could have been resolved earlier in my life. (Not a criticism at all, just saying how I would feel.)

Some hugs and acknowledgement that it must be a tough thing to go through would go a long way towards calming me down. I would feel like my particular brand of grief could be seen and I wouldn't have to agitate to justify that to my family.

Also, I'm sorry for your loss, Misty. *hug*

 

[substitute]

You really must have known some toxic ones Sub the way you talk about INFJs. It may be the case with the ones you know but it's not an INFJ thing.

read what I said above

I have known a couple of very toxic ones indeed, but it's not that. I know some cool ones too. They tell me the same thing - if they feel like someone's hurt them, they find it hard to be around that person and will avoid them if they can. Not be nasty or anything - sure, when they're around them they'll make like it's fine and be polite and stuff, but they'd rather not be around them, and can become avoidant, and even when they've forgiven the person, they're still in the habit of avoiding them. And that just, well, honestly I mean no malice to INFJ's, but it does look like a grudge, whether it is one or not!

 

[cascadeco]

I know some cool ones too. They tell me the same thing - if they feel like someone's hurt them, they find it hard to be around that person and will avoid them if they can. Not be nasty or anything - sure, when they're around them they'll make like it's fine and be polite and stuff, but they'd rather not be around them, and can become avoidant, and even when they've forgiven the person, they're still in the habit of avoiding them. And that just, well, honestly I mean no malice to INFJ's, but it does look like a grudge, whether it is one or not!

If you come to the realization that you don't naturally jive with another person, or see eye to eye with them, why in the world would you continue making an effort and why would you WANT to be around them? It seems natural if you're not that into someone, that you don't necessarily want to bump into them, but seeing that you don't in fact think they're a horrible person, why wouldn't you continue to be pleasant or the like if you do bump into them? For me, it's not so much that I think so and so is a horrible person, or whatever, it's about the mutual interaction - I'm not going to like everyone, nor am I going to desire a relationship with everyone. It doesn't mean I think they suck, or I'm still holding a grudge against them (which, again, hasn't happened in recent memory) or whatever, it simply means I don't think the two of us, together, can create something mutually healthy and beneficial. It's about the combination of us two. Once I learn I'm not that into someone (whether it be because they hurt me at some point, or it just surfaces gradually over time), or we're not great together, why would I logically still hang out with them? It makes no sense.

 

[the state i am in]

i grudge until i deal with my shit, accept responsibility for what i can control, and move on. then i grow up.

tho, communicating with others who can help us or learning how to write are pretty crucial to this process. without these tools, i'd implode and turn into a black hole.

 

[violaine]

read what I said above

I have known a couple of very toxic ones indeed, but it's not that. I know some cool ones too. They tell me the same thing - if they feel like someone's hurt them, they find it hard to be around that person and will avoid them if they can. Not be nasty or anything - sure, when they're around them they'll make like it's fine and be polite and stuff, but they'd rather not be around them, and can become avoidant, and even when they've forgiven the person, they're still in the habit of avoiding them. And that just, well, honestly I mean no malice to INFJ's, but it does look like a grudge, whether it is one or not!

If someone had hurt me I wouldn't want to carry on a trench warfare but being a private person I won't be inviting them into my little world anytime soon either. It's a function of being a private style of person with limited energy for others. Unless you are an intimate of mine you will get polite reserve. I would not kick up a fuss if someone I didn't like was in my circle of acquaintances. I would put up with them as I would expect them to put up with me and just not interact much because I don't enjoy their company.

It's not a grudge, there's no resentment, it's me being selective about who my social energy goes towards. (It's limited after all.) It may be different for people who are energized by others, but I watch who I connect with as it can be very draining with people I don't enjoy being around.

If you come to the realization that you don't naturally jive with another person, or see eye to eye with them, why in the world would you continue making an effort and why would you WANT to be around them? It seems natural if you're not that into someone, that you don't necessarily want to bump into them, but seeing that you don't in fact think they're a horrible person, why wouldn't you continue to be pleasant or the like if you do bump into them? For me, it's not so much that I think so and so is a horrible person, or whatever, it's about the mutual interaction - I'm not going to like everyone, nor am I going to desire a relationship with everyone. It doesn't mean I think they suck, or I'm still holding a grudge against them (which, again, hasn't happened in recent memory) or whatever, it simply means I don't think the two of us, together, can create something mutually healthy and beneficial. It's about the combination of us two. Once I learn I'm not that into someone (whether it be because they hurt me at some point, or it just surfaces gradually over time), or we're not great together, why would I logically still hang out with them? It makes no sense.

And as I said, being an introvert means that I am very selective about who I spend my quality time with. Intro = easily drained, for me!

 

[Misty_Mountain_Rose]

Awww, thanks for the incoming hugs We don't get those much in the NT section... I might have to hang out with you guys more!

So what I'm gathering here is that while the NF may have moved on and aren't actively exerting energy into being angry at someone, it could appear that way to outsiders by their decision to not interact with the person as much. Aye?

That makes sense with friendships I've seen her have over the years... she doesn't have 'enemies', but she does 'drift away' from those who lose her trust.

 

[substitute]

cascadesco - well I didn't really mean when it's just a general personality clash. I mean more like when people get along fine, then one person says something that even unintentionally upsets the INFJ, and then from then on they lose them, really, as a friend. It will look to that person like the INFJ is holding a grudge against them because they made one possibly innocent mistake.

sanveane - yeah, I've seen that sorta thing. it can be quite hurtful really, for the person who didn't mean to hurt you and still likes you and was your friend and still wants to be, but they see the gates are now permanently closed. just something to think about there.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

If you come to the realization that you don't naturally jive with another person, or see eye to eye with them, why in the world would you continue making an effort and why would you WANT to be around them? It seems natural if you're not that into someone, that you don't necessarily want to bump into them, but seeing that you don't in fact think they're a horrible person, why wouldn't you continue to be pleasant or the like if you do bump into them? [...] Once I learn I'm not that into someone (whether it be because they hurt me at some point, or it just surfaces gradually over time), or we're not great together, why would I logically still hang out with them? It makes no sense.

If someone had hurt me I wouldn't want to carry on a trench warfare but being a private person I won't be inviting them into my little world anytime soon either. It's a function of being a private style of person with limited energy for others. Unless you are an intimate of mine you will get polite reserve. I would not kick up a fuss if someone I didn't like was in my circle of acquaintances. I would put up with them as I would expect them to put up with me and just not interact much because I don't enjoy their company.

It's not a grudge, there's no resentment, it's me being selective about who my social energy goes towards. (It's limited after all.) I may be different for people who are energized by others, but I watch who I connect with as it can be very draining with people I don't enjoy being around.

+1000 to both of these.

And also, if a person hurt you and you are the kind of person who internalizes feelings deeply, it is hard to be around them. It's difficult because the memory of the hurt comes back. Even if you've forgiven them, and might even want to restore the relationship, the hurt may still be there. Yes, INFJs may be prone to avoidant behavior because of this and the quoted explanations. They may eventually heal and be able to interact with the person who has hurt them, but it takes time.

 

[substitute]

+1000 to both of these.

And also, if a person hurt you and you are the kind of person who internalizes feelings deeply, it is hard to be around them. It's difficult because the memory of the hurt comes back. Even if you've forgiven them, the hurt may still be there. Yes, INFJs may be prone to avoidant behavior because of this and the quoted explanations. They may eventually heal and be able to interact with the person who has hurt them, but it takes time.

Thank you. So in the end, you've said my very point yourself!

THAT is the behaviour that comes across to the other person as holding a grudge against them for whatever it was they did "wrong".

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Thank you. So in the end, you've said my very point yourself!

THAT is the behaviour that comes across to the other person as holding a grudge against them for whatever it was they did "wrong".

No, you're not getting it.

It is not about the person and how much the INFJ dislikes them. It is about the hurt. These are two separate things.

People will interpret behavior however they wish, and no one can control that. But it's not a grudge if you're not holding in ill feelings towards the other person.

 

[Alpha Prime]

Misty_Mountain_Rose, I don't envy your situation. INFJ's I know can't be reasoned with.

outrageous to try and say it's not an INFJ thing to hold grudges. just outrageous!

they like, founded and run the national university of grudge holding! srsly!

Unhealthy* ones.

You really must have known some toxic ones Sub the way you talk about INFJs.

I have yet to meet a healthy and interesting infj. Do they even exist? If so, they are few. Truth be told, I don't like most infj's.



*Unhealthy: Unskilled with emotions. Unable to see reason and grasp vital facts. Self-destructive. Passive aggressive.

 

[violaine]

Awww, thanks for the incoming hugs We don't get those much in the NT section... I might have to hang out with you guys more!

So what I'm gathering here is that while the NF may have moved on and aren't actively exerting energy into being angry at someone, it could appear that way to outsiders by their decision to not interact with the person as much. Aye?

That makes sense with friendships I've seen her have over the years... she doesn't have 'enemies', but she does 'drift away' from those who lose her trust.

Yup. If someone loses my trust it takes a great deal of work by both parties to re-establish. INFJs really do bond deeply with the people we are close to because we show them a private side of ourselves generally not on display. (Our typically very rich inner world.) Which requires that we trust the other person. If that is violated somehow or we feel we misread someone in the first place it is a terrible feeling. A mixture of feeling supremely foolish and exposed.

In addition to that, I really do prefer to remain aloof unless I resonate with someone or vice versa.

(Also, moar *hugs*)

cascadesco - well I didn't really mean when it's just a general personality clash. I mean more like when people get along fine, then one person says something that even unintentionally upsets the INFJ, and then from then on they lose them, really, as a friend. It will look to that person like the INFJ is holding a grudge against them because they made one possibly innocent mistake.

sanveane - yeah, I've seen that sorta thing. it can be quite hurtful really, for the person who didn't mean to hurt you and still likes you and was your friend and still wants to be, but they see the gates are now permanently closed. just something to think about there.

I am very considered in my interactions. If someone were to ever acknowledge they hurt me and wanted to make it up I think I would be just fine if they wanted to work on our relationship together (provided they were genuine). But it wouldn't be an immediate return to how things were and would take work and time to get back to that place. I foresee that under those circumstances the relationship could be stronger than ever, in fact. Everyone makes blunders and someone's motivations typically hold far more weight for me than their actions.

 

[fill]

They may eventually heal and be able to interact with the person who has hurt them, but it takes time.

Definitely. And when this does happen (at least for me), it's rather sudden. It's not a gradual thing, like the initial friendship itself, it's more like spending an entire day with the person to heal the relationship in one fell swoop.

 

[Tallulah]

Maybe it's my T-ness showing here, but I'm gonna go ahead and ask it. If the situation's been acknowledged and discussed over the years, and everyone was pretty sure that he was the dad anyway, including her and the dad, how does that change the relationship fundamentally? I mean, didn't she already have a father/daughter relationship with this man?

 

[cafe]

I can hold a grudge and/or doorslam for years. I can understand doing it under those circumstances because I didn't know who my dad was until I was 27. I still wish we'd done a DNA test because I don't entirely trust my mom.

Cheating and lying are big deals. Someone who values authenticity is probably going to be strongly impacted by feeling as though they have been living a lie their whole life.

Sometimes you need to pull back and process things for awhile and awhile for an INFJ could be a few years. She'll probably come round eventually.

 

[nightning]

Thank you. So in the end, you've said my very point yourself!

THAT is the behaviour that comes across to the other person as holding a grudge against them for whatever it was they did "wrong".

Ummmm if you call reservation (maintain distance) the same as holding a grudge. Then okay I hold grudges. Like Cascade, I remain cordial to the person to make the interactions bearable. It's nothing more than social politeness. Beyond that I don't see the reason to spend more time and effort in making things "work". This is what's called the door-slam by others, it takes a lot to get to that stage though. What constitutes being wronged enough to warrant a door-slam... only one thing really. Warning given and advice not heed. I told you about the offense numerous times and you still violate it. If you make no attempt to change, I don't see why I should put in the effort for you either.

So you can see how rare that is to happen. Typical INFJ behaviour maybe, but not a frequently exhibited one.


Misty, your sister's behaviour is rather foreign to me. I don't intentionally get mad at somebody and stay mad. There are moments where I had enough and blow up, but it subsides. I guess during those times I might not be up to dealing with somebody else's perspective. In those cases, I withdraw from contact.

I've been told by the rest of my family my favourite phrase is "Leave me alone". Not sure if I get defense... I suppose I can. In any rate I only stay in that mode for at most a few days. Certainly not year long or even month long grunges.

 

[substitute]

Whether you're holding ill feelings towards the person or not, if whatever your thoughts or feelings are towards that person are kept to yourself and the only clue they have to go by is your behaviour towards them and that behaviour is to avoid them ever since they said something that offended you, then that other person will very, very likely perceive you to be holding a grudge.

It's like I'm speaking Martian or something! Why does what I'm saying keep coming across as unreasonable? Do INFJ's not understand the concept that other people can't read minds?