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  1. #11
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    people who hold grudges always say they don't. my sister for example, is the queen of grudges, but if asked she always says she doesn't hold them.

    I'm not talking about my personal experience with the INFJ's I know alone, Lauren - it's true to type theory, and you even told me yourself the reasons why it is!!
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  2. #12
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Ni - looks at patterns in own knowledge from own inner perception and fits present situation into them
    Fe - assigns value to something according to how it makes the person/their loved one(s) feel

    With that being the case, as you explained to me Lauren Ashley, if you do something the INFJ perceives as wrong because it upsets them, then they can't help but see that as your pattern of behaviour - to hurt people. Whether you meant to hurt them or not is irrelevant, your point of view is irrelevant (you said these things yourself), if the INFJ simply feels that you've hurt them, then as far as they're concerned, you have, and you're a person who hurts people, and they won't want to talk to you or have dealings with you for a long time, if ever again.

    That's not me having a grudge, that's type theory and your own words.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  3. #13
    lurking.... Wyst's Avatar
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    Your 'grudge-holding' conspiracy theory is, what I've long believed to be a mere front to what's really going on inside an INFJ.

    INFJs generally dislike and try to avoid conflict. However it's one the tools in their belt that they will use to sabotage discussions, arguements, and relationships all for escaping the discomfort.

    Yes, it sounds a little hypocritical, but when you get down to what really matters to in INFJ in the moment it usually revolves around, "How can I avoid having to address this?"

    INFJs are masters of keeping things to themselves. If you your convinced an INFJ has a grudge against you - think again. Chances are they're using the grudge as an excuse for a cover-up about something else - though it may be directly/indirectly related somehow.

  4. #14
    Kraken down on piracy Lux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    people who hold grudges always say they don't. my sister for example, is the queen of grudges, but if asked she always says she doesn't hold them.
    You can be right in your own experience. I think I know myself pretty well and you can take it or leave it but, I still say remembering and forgiving is not the same as holding a grudge. INFJ's, at least the healthy ones are constantly revising what they think of themselves and trying to be better people, grudges cannot be a part of that because it's anti productive.

    it's true to type theory, and you even told me yourself the reasons why it is!!
    Can you explain the reasons?

  5. #15
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Ni - looks at patterns in own knowledge from own inner perception and fits present situation into them
    Fe - assigns value to something according to how it makes the person/their loved one(s) feel
    You're assuming that a person only uses their top two functions.

    With that being the case, as you explained to me Lauren Ashley, if you do something the INFJ perceives as wrong because it upsets them, then they can't help but see that as your pattern of behaviour - to hurt people. Whether you meant to hurt them or not is irrelevant, your point of view is irrelevant (you said these things yourself), if the INFJ simply feels that you've hurt them, then as far as they're concerned, you have, and you're a person who hurts people, and they won't want to talk to you or have dealings with you for a long time, if ever again.
    Don't misquote me or quote me out of context. That's not what I said at all. I said if a person establishes a pattern of behavior which is destructive to another person, it is only natural that the person being hurt will want nothing to do with said person. Such thinking is not type specific. Unless you're saying that the other types are masochistic and will just deal with it. And if a person does not want to deal with you, does not mean they hold a grudge. They could have forgiven the person, but they are not going to keep going back to the same thing.

    That's not me having a grudge, that's type theory and your own words.
    I think it is. It is clear that you hold a grudge against the NFJs for holding a grudge against you, ironically.

  6. #16
    WTF is this dude saying? A Schnitzel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    My sister tests as an INFJ, and it seems to fit... but the thing that frustrates me when I try to learn about this type is that I only seem to get things like:

    - We're mysterious
    - We're private
    - We're self-conscious

    Thoughts?
    That's the same thing I get from INTJs
    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    sheesh humans! for realz

  7. #17
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    I still say remembering and forgiving is not the same as holding a grudge. INFJ's, at least the healthy ones are constantly revising what they think of themselves and trying to be better people, grudges cannot be a part of that because it's anti productive.

    Can you explain the reasons?
    I never said remembering was the same as a grudge. I did explain above...

    There's a difference between "remembering" and "still not talking to you after years" - most people would call that a grudge

    As for the "constant revision" - well, that may well happen in your head, but if the external result is that you still won't go anywhere near that person because it makes you go all emotionally wobbly inside again, so you avoid them and won't talk to them for a very long time, whatever is going on in your head, to the outside world that looks like a grudge

    Lauren, I'm not even gonna deal with you LOL you're impossible!
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  8. #18
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Lauren, I'm not even gonna deal with you LOL you're impossible!
    Ditto.

    The thing is you're just never able to believe any experiences that contradict yours. And that's totally fine if that's the way you are, but a type does not tell you everything a person is going to be. Thinking "Oh, she's INFJ thus she must hold grudges," is dangerous thinking IMO and a misuse of typology. And the whining about every type that irritates you makes me go :rolli:. You'll find something to dislike about every type/person if you search hard enough.

    But anyway, we're going slightly off-topic, so PM me if you wish to continue this.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I hold grudges and I will take your head off if you push me when I'm hurt and angry. I would not attempt to reason with her. You can't even begin to imagine how irritating it is to have someone try to reason with you when your feelings are at the boiling point. She hasn't started processing yet. She has to get through the angry part (which she may never get completely over) enough to let herself think, and then she's going to be thinking about this for a long time. The more you interfere with her process, the worse, IMO. If she wants to use you for a sounding board, just listen. IF you have a blinding insight that you really think will turn her around in some way, just say it and then drop it and have faith that she'll process. Don't push her while she's in crisis. And I'd say you might have to accept that this is something you'll never be able to talk about without her getting worked up.

    I'm sorry for the problems your family is having right now. It must be very difficult.

  10. #20
    Kraken down on piracy Lux's Avatar
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    There's a difference between "remembering" and "still not talking to you after years" - most people would call that a grudge
    Of course if you're still not talking to someone after years you're holding a grudge but that's not what I'm talking about. I talking about the fact that people can be mean, rude, or however it is that's insulting to you and moving on. You forgive that person but you still remember what happened. I do think what you're talking about it a grudge but it's different than what I'm saying. I apologize if I'm not being clear.

    As for the "constant revision" - well, that may well happen in your head, but if the external result is that you still won't go anywhere near that person because it makes you go all emotionally wobbly inside again, so you avoid them and won't talk to them for a very long time, whatever is going on in your head, to the outside world that looks like a grudge
    I don't do any of that. Ever. If I'm around the person I act like things are fine because if I've forgiven them things are fine. It goes along with the constant revision. If you know yourself, you know when you're lying to yourself about being over something. Maybe the INFJ's that rubbed you the wrong way are lying to themselves about being over the injustice, for lack of a better word. If that's the case then you are correct, it's a grudge. I still think we may be talking about different tings though.

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