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[ENFP] ENFP's and flirting

Charmed Justice

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A ISTJ good at flirting? :shock:

I know....He leans I, for sure, but he knows how to bring the E. He flirts well until he starts talking. He's not all that great with words, but very good with body language. He can actually wink, and it looks good. When I wink. Well, let's just say, I don't wink.
 

Moiety

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To me, love is love. I don't believe the ultimate form of love has to be unconditional. But the OP posted a blog by a man who spoke of flirtatiousness as being "selfish". My response is that most love is selfish, and is not unconditional, had he thought of it like this, he wouldn't have seen flirting as an "evil" but as simply another part of the human need to have our needs met. Flirting is a form of communication that seeks to engage another at some level. It goes wrong when people misinterpret signals, or go from flirting to manipulating.

Personally, I don't think flirting is selfish per se. But just like the statement "fuck you", it can be interpreted in different ways. The difference is when "fuck you" is interpreted in a bad way the worst that can happen is you are driving someone away. With flirting it's more akin to betrayal since "you were leading someone on" in the worst case scenario.

For someone who lives his/her lives without a sense of ethics/conscience and cause - > effect, being naturally flirty is no crime. But as feeler and a pretty empathic person , I prefer to not fuck with people's minds. Flirting for the sake of it can be just that. If one flirts to get the attention of someone one is genuinely interested in, to me, that seems ok. But to flirt with everybody feels very wrong to me personally. Not to mention hypocritical. I don't have the same interest in everyone, so why should any be given the same attention?



My husband is an ISTJ, and he actually makes a great flirt too. When women flirt with him, I find that attractive and he finds it attractive when men flirt with me.

What exactly do you mean by attractive?


It's really about who you are, and what you need. For me, when I feel secure(sexy, attractive, worthy of attention and admiration), I flirt. If I feel insecure(unattractive, uninteresting), then I'm shy, I hide, and I don't flirt because I don't want to be seen or noticed. This is contrary to what a lot of people seem to assume: that people flirt out of insecurity. It seems to me that the most confident people flirt, and the least confident don't.

What do you think makes you feel secure or insecure?




aphrodite-gone-awry said:
i like your posts. you make me think about things in a different way. i tread uncomfortably close to the relativistic line in most things in my life; i can rationalize and reconcile to the point that i feel like almost nothing matters at times. with two exceptions: my family and close friends. so, for me, unconditional love gives me something to strive for and a healthy context to grow within, while fostering one the the most important focuses in my life: others. i think the most positively influential people in history have striven to unconditionally love others, and that is good enough for me. plus it just feels right and good. loving (not necessarily romantic love) someone feels wonderful to me. loving unconditionally releases me from only being able to do that when another returns the love. perhaps my pursuit of unconditional love is akin to others' pursuit of knowing their God or Gods. ?

Hmmm, yes I do like to believe in unconditional love. But then I start to think why would I want to be loved unconditionally if I've done nothing wrong and plan on doing nothing wrong? And if something I've done, which I don't think is wrong, is regarded as such by someone I'm with...why would I want to be with that person in the first place?

Not questions directed at you...just brainstorming. :)
 

Thalassa

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I identify with this, strongly. But more so in my teens and early twenties. I still am flirty, but not as liberally with everyone. I'm older and wiser now, ha.
 

thescientist

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I identify with this, strongly. But more so in my teens and early twenties. I still am flirty, but not as liberally with everyone. I'm older and wiser now, ha.

I think this is definitely a pattern among young ENFP's.

All I can say is to those ENFP's who do flirt with everyone, just be careful how far you take it. It's very hurtful indeed to lead someone on... :eek:uch:
 

sculpting

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I personally don't really see how the bad behavior and manipulative flirting described so far in this thread is very different from the 'harmless and friendly flirting' described.

And Ne-Monster, what I meant before about how you may flirt without knowing it - Ne helps you just go with the flow and interplay with other people's energy. It's very possible that when you thought you were just joking around with someone that they interpreted it as flirting or other people would call it flirting. Kinda like how when Lady X said she's just being polite and people interpret it as flirting. If we're talking about intentionalflirting it can also just be playfulness, but at least in my definition, it's also about the energy involved? If two people are clearly attracted to each other it's hard not to imbue light social interaction with an element of "flirting".

What do you usually do Ne Monster when you are into someone?

When I think someone is cute, I avoid them and dont make eye contact. This doesnt usually work out well :) However I spend a lot of time living NeTe style. This means not only am I not open for others to make offers, I am also just not interested. It is a very practical, asexual sort of thing. I have went for years only have a very abstract interest in men, and not having sex and been okay with it. (Fi likes sex)

People can see the Fi leak out of the edges, they understand I care deeply for others but they dont mistake it for flirting.

Now-in the last six months I have really tried to be more open with Fi-and I have had a case where a man thought I was flirting. I immediately apologized and said how much respect i had for his wife and his marriage. But I could FEEL the transition in his behavior and in mine, very quickly, when it happened and immediately stop and clarify.

Agreed. It kinda baffles me really. I'm known for many things but mixed signals are pretty much impossible when you are with me. I'm very much aware of what could be interpreted as flirting by nearly everyone. If I'm really interested, chances are I'll have a really hard time saying it out loud... just like that. But if my interest is only on a platonic level I'll make it pretty apparent right from the get go.

Like I said numerous times I can be quite abrasive/intimidating/whatever in the way I communicate. When chatting with guys there's no danger of them misinterpreting it for ...I dunno....being an actuall ass :p Guys don't usually sugarcoat stuff when talking with each other. I see this trend of guys being a lot "nicer" when chatting with girls in general though. Maybe that's why I never get misinterpreted by girls, because I usually talk exactly the same way.

I might be subconsciously in denial or something, but threads like this coupled with some other stuff almost makes me doubt my type...

At work we suddenly had an influx of ENFP male executives. They are all heavy Te users. They remind me of you sytpg and of noigmn. I really enjoy working with them and they do not exhibit the flirting at all. (My entps are the culprits there :) )

well, thank you for the validation, but i'm condensing about one and a half year's worth of relating into a few paragraphs. it wouldn't appear to be manipulation in the real world, and didn't. it's really only in hindsight that i can see it all in context; that i was just her latest project and she milked me for all she could get. and there is no doubt in my mind she did all this subconsciously. i just think other enfps could glean something from my sharing of this personal experience and remember that a new person/friend/love interest is not the same thing as a new hobby.

thanks, that is a very important lesson. We can be flippant.
 

Thalassa

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I think this is definitely a pattern among young ENFP's.

All I can say is to those ENFP's who do flirt with everyone, just be careful how far you take it. It's very hurtful indeed to lead someone on... :eek:uch:

Agreed. I had several incidents in my late teens where I was flirty with guys who I thought were just my friends, and it was all cool, only to find out that they got upset when I didn't want to date them. I really, honestly thought there was just this mutual understanding of friendship with occasional (but never serious or physical) flirtation.

I think I abused it much more in my early 20's, sometimes to my advantage, sometimes to my peril. I was never one of those chicks who was like "ha ha I'm going to lead on this poor, innocent guy and make him buy me things" or anything evil like that, though. I know people who take it that far and it just seems horribly cruel, not to mention possibly dangerous.

I flirt now much more rarely, when I do it's casual, and have better emotional boundaries. I did it very much for the reasons of fun and personal affirmation of attractiveness rather than sex. Now I'm more cautious, but I can be wildly flirtatious with someone I'm genuinely attracted to.
 

kyuuei

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^ Just as a side thought inspired by your post.. I don't understand how a woman can accept gifts from someone she has no intentions of being involved with.
 

Charmed Justice

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Personally, I don't think flirting is selfish per se. But just like the statement "fuck you", it can be interpreted in different ways. The difference is when "fuck you" is interpreted in a bad way the worst that can happen is you are driving someone away. With flirting it's more akin to betrayal since "you were leading someone on" in the worst case scenario.

Don't agree here. What we say is but a small part of what we are truly saying, if that makes any sense. Our body language makes up the bulk of our communication. There is a clear difference between an antagonistic "fuck you" and a seductive one or a silly one. Yes, miscommunication occurs in flirting, like in all forms of communication. That's why, for the most part, people seek people who understand them and think like they do. In part, it is to avoid the drama of miscommunication and difference in communication style.

For someone who lives his/her lives without a sense of ethics/conscience and cause - > effect, being naturally flirty is no crime. But as feeler and a pretty empathic person , I prefer to not fuck with people's minds. Flirting for the sake of it can be just that. If one flirts to get the attention of someone one is genuinely interested in, to me, that seems ok. But to flirt with everybody feels very wrong to me personally. Not to mention hypocritical. I don't have the same interest in everyone, so why should any be given the same attention?

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. I'm thinking you don't really have the ability to determine the motivations or degree of ethics and conscience in comparison to your own, of people you don't know and clearly don't understand. Being naturally flirty is no crime, and is biologically ingrained in the human psyche(apparently more so in some than others). It is language like all other language. Yes, it can be intentionally abused and misused, but being a "feeler" and highly "empathetic" doesn't make someone adverse to flirting. We never communicate with each other "just for the sake of it", and our lack of understanding of another's motivations or intent does not make us right and them wrong. I haven't seen anyone say that they flirt with everybody they meet and everyone they know. Who are these people?







What exactly do you mean by attractive?

I mean that we, as husband and wife, find it appealing and seductive when we see that others still see us as highly attractive sexual beings by flirting with us. I fully embrace my sexuality, and my sexuality is a part of who I am.




What do you think makes you feel secure or insecure?

For me, I get insecure when I don't feel like I'm contributing to the world as I could be. I have had moments like that, and trust me, flirting is not something I do in those times. I highly doubt depressed people flirt. Flirting is playfulness, and playfulness is typically a sign of emotional health.






Hmmm, yes I do like to believe in unconditional love. But then I start to think why would I want to be loved unconditionally if I've done nothing wrong and plan on doing nothing wrong? And if something I've done, which I don't think is wrong, is regarded as such by someone I'm with...why would I want to be with that person in the first place?

So you're saying, you wouldn't want to be with someone unless they only viewed you as a person who is always right-at least, in the moral sense? Part of being in a life long relationship, from my understanding, is negotiation of standards, values, and morality. It is indeed, one of the hardest parts. There will be times when your spouse/LT partner believes you've done something wrong(with the kids, financially, in your spiritual quest, whatever), and you don't agree. Are you saying, you would leave a marriage or LT relationship when that occurs? Unconditional love frees us to be vulnerable, make mistakes, and still know that we are just as equally loved and cared for, and wont be abandoned. No human views another human as perfect, in the long term, so why wouldn't you want to be unconditionally loved by someone(fully accepted as someone who will make mistakes)?
 

thescientist

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For me, I get insecure when I don't feel like I'm contributing to the world as I could be. I have had moments like that, and trust me, flirting is not something I do in those times. I highly doubt depressed people flirt. Flirting is playfulness, and playfulness is typically a sign of emotional health.
Disagree, it is unhealthy and a sign of insecurity when flirting is needed for self-validation, not to mention potentially hurtful to others. Unless you genuinely like the person, I think it's just wrong. This is coming from someone who was just led on big time by an ENFP. He goes around flirting even with coworkers I'm certain he's not attracted to. It's quite obvious he does this because he loves getting a reaction out of people. It makes HIM feel good. He took it too far with me and I ended up feeling used and hurt.

Who says depressed people dont flirt? And who says flirtation is an indication that one is happy? Just because one is depressed doesn't mean they cant flirt.
 

Charmed Justice

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Disagree, it is unhealthy and a sign of insecurity when flirting is needed for self-validation, not to mention potentially hurtful to others. Unless you genuinely like the person, I think it's just wrong. This is coming from someone who was just led on big time by an ENFP. He goes around flirting even with coworkers I'm certain he's not attracted to. It's quite obvious he does this because he loves getting a reaction out of people. It makes HIM feel good. He took it too far with me and I ended up feeling used and hurt.

Who says depressed people dont flirt? And who says flirtation is an indication that one is happy? Just because one is depressed doesn't mean they cant flirt.


I'm sorry you and this ENFP guy weren't on the same page, but isn't part of relating to someone occasionally being rejected(or finding out that we aren't compatible with them as a result of their personal style or motivations)? Does that make communication(or different types of it) inherently wrong? Did you talk to this ENFP guy and ask him what his deal was? I try not to assume that I know the inner workings of someone's mind, their motivations, or their needs(unless we are extremely intimate).

You say he flirts with co-workers you are "sure" he is not attracted to. Ok. Many long-term relationships begin with flirting, and without a mutual attraction. Just because he is not attracted to them right now, doesn't mean that not one of them has a chance with him. It just depends on how each of them responds to him, and how he responds back. Flirting is, in and of itself, a negotiation and screening of interest. It seals no deal. It is simply the negotiation process.


You may want to take a look at this article by the Social Issues Research Center on flirting: SIRC Guide to flirting Here is an excerpt:

Flirting is much more than just a bit of fun: it is a universal and essential aspect of human interaction. Anthropological research shows that flirting is to be found, in some form, in all cultures and societies around the world.

Flirting is a basic instinct, part of human nature. This is not surprising: if we did not initiate contact and express interest in members of the opposite sex, we would not progress to reproduction, and the human species would become extinct.



The article is very long, but touches on the psychology of flirting, and also how Western cultures have made attempts to moralize flirting. Flirting begins with babies and the non-manipulative type is playful. Playfulness IS a sign of emotional health, and one of the signs of depression in children AND adults is a decrease in playfulness. Some depressed people may indeed flirt, but flirting is much more likely to be done by someone who is generally happy and emotionally healthy because again, in it's natural form, it is a sign of play. Depressed children play, but happy children play much more.

This article actually asserts that the "opposite of play is depression": Depression? Play is New Cure, Revealed from Grow Your Green Business |

Now, if you can find me something that proves that flirtation is not lite communicative play(done by adults and children alike), but is in fact, a form of human communication done by insecure/emotionally unhealthy types who are looking to manipulate others for their own devious desire for "self-validation"....well then, I'll see your point. No one wants to be used and hurt by sadistic types who take pleasure in other's pain. Flirting is not that though, so I'm thinking you're talking more about flirting used AS manipulation...like words used AS verbal abuse.

Also, what exactly is "self-validation"? I ask because I've heard this term used a lot, and the connotation is that self-validation is wrong. It's almost like when frustrated parents say their children "just want attention"....as if something is wrong with wanting someone to pay attention to you.
 

thescientist

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I'm sorry you and this ENFP guy weren't on the same page, but isn't part of relating to someone occasionally being rejected(or finding out that we aren't compatible with them as a result of their personal style or motivations)? Does that make communication(or different types of it) inherently wrong? Did you talk to this ENFP guy and ask him what his deal was? I try not to assume that I know the inner workings of someone's mind, their motivations, or their needs(unless we are extremely intimate).
You can read the whole INTJ/ENFP thread. I highly doubt it's ok to continue the flirting to validate your desirability even after you've already rejected me. Misleading and just not very nice. Jerk-face. Not you...the ENFP I was talking about.
You say he flirts with co-workers you are "sure" he is not attracted to. Ok. Many long-term relationships begin with flirting, and without a mutual attraction. Just because he is not attracted to them right now, doesn't mean that not one of them has a chance with him. It just depends on how each of them responds to him, and how he responds back. Flirting is, in and of itself, a negotiation and screening of interest. It seals no deal. It is simply the negotiation process.
Um, yeah. This coworker already has a boyfriend. But this ENFP is very attractive and loves to see the women react to him.

Flirting is a basic instinct, part of human nature. This is not surprising: if we did not initiate contact and express interest in members of the opposite sex, we would not progress to reproduction, and the human species would become extinct.[/I]
I'm not saying flirting is not a natural instinct when we're interested in someone and done in the right context. But as I pointed out before. When done to feed your own ego or validate your desirability, it's just plain wrong and potentially misleading and damaging.
 

INTP

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I think its just a miscommunication

For enfp flirting = way to interract with people you might like him/her(as person) and way to get more out of this person

For intj(and for me) flirting = way to show other person you do like him/her(romantically) and way to get more out of this person
 

Charmed Justice

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You can read the whole INTJ/ENFP thread. I highly doubt it's ok to continue the flirting to validate your desirability even after you've already rejected me. Misleading and just not very nice. Jerk-face. Not you...the ENFP I was talking about.
Um, yeah. This coworker already has a boyfriend. But this ENFP is very attractive and loves to see the women react to him.


I'm not saying flirting is not a natural instinct when we're interested in someone and done in the right context. But as I pointed out before. When done to feed your own ego or validate your desirability, it's just plain wrong and potentially misleading and damaging.

K, so I just finished reading your old thread. :hug:

It really sucks to feel that way, I know. But I must say, I think you may be making an error in assuming you know what he feels. ENFPs are Fi, and sometimes we don't actually let you in on what's really going on inside. When in doubt, ask. Who knows why he backed off, but it does neither of you any good to assume that you know his intentions.

You are effectively creating a story in your head with him as the perp and you the victim. As such, you could be being very unfair to him without realizing it, just as you feel he was being unfair to you(and he may not realize it). This is all about communication, or lack there of. He could have very well be interested in you(at the time), and lost interest for some reason. The immature Fi may have compelled him to just back away, rather than come out with and explain how he felt. If you confronted him directly, he would likely explain to you his issue.
 

thescientist

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If you confronted him directly, he would likely explain to you his issue.
No he wouldn't. He would give me some lame 'ol excuse and not be honest with me. ENFP is not going to tell me the truth if it's going to be hurtful. I cant put up with his BS anymore. I'm done with it.

Maybe an ENTP and I would fare better.
 

Charmed Justice

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No he wouldn't. He would give me some lame 'ol excuse and not be honest with me. ENFP is not going to tell me the truth if it's going to be hurtful. I cant put up with his BS anymore. I'm done with it.

Maybe an ENTP and I would fare better.

An ENTP guy I've known nearly 8 years just told me that he's been in love with me all this time. There is no guarantee with them either. And um, he got married to someone else before telling me this. It's just men, and women, and communicating. It's all mind boggling and confusing, but I try to take it all at face value and have fun with it and appreciate whatever positive role people have played in my life(even if I wanted more...or less).
 

Moiety

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Don't agree here. What we say is but a small part of what we are truly saying, if that makes any sense. Our body language makes up the bulk of our communication. There is a clear difference between an antagonistic "fuck you" and a seductive one or a silly one. Yes, miscommunication occurs in flirting, like in all forms of communication. That's why, for the most part, people seek people who understand them and think like they do. In part, it is to avoid the drama of miscommunication and difference in communication style.

I don't get what you are disagreeing with. Could you please clarify?

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. I'm thinking you don't really have the ability to determine the motivations or degree of ethics and conscience in comparison to your own, of people you don't know and clearly don't understand.

I'm merely exaggerating to illustrate my point. Since I base my reasons for not being flirty on ethics, empathy and "cause and effect".

Being naturally flirty is no crime, and is biologically ingrained in the human psyche(apparently more so in some than others). It is language like all other language. Yes, it can be intentionally abused and misused, but being a "feeler" and highly "empathetic" doesn't make someone adverse to flirting. We never communicate with each other "just for the sake of it", and our lack of understanding of another's motivations or intent does not make us right and them wrong.

Being human is all about fighting nature though. Some traits are inherent and biologically ingrained too. Like taking justice into your own hands and so forth.

I haven't seen anyone say that they flirt with everybody they meet and everyone they know. Who are these people?

People have admitted to doing it very often and ENFPs are known for liking to interact with pretty much everyone on some level.

I mean that we, as husband and wife, find it appealing and seductive when we see that others still see us as highly attractive sexual beings by flirting with us. I fully embrace my sexuality, and my sexuality is a part of who I am.

So do you think others flirt with you because you are a highly attractive sexual being? Is that the same reason why you flirt with people? Do you flirt with people you don't find sexually attractive?





For me, I get insecure when I don't feel like I'm contributing to the world as I could be. I have had moments like that, and trust me, flirting is not something I do in those times. I highly doubt depressed people flirt. Flirting is playfulness, and playfulness is typically a sign of emotional health.

Don't agree. I've known compulsive flirters who were not happy people at all.

So you're saying, you wouldn't want to be with someone unless they only viewed you as a person who is always right-at least, in the moral sense? Part of being in a life long relationship, from my understanding, is negotiation of standards, values, and morality. It is indeed, one of the hardest parts. There will be times when your spouse/LT partner believes you've done something wrong(with the kids, financially, in your spiritual quest, whatever), and you don't agree. Are you saying, you would leave a marriage or LT relationship when that occurs? Unconditional love frees us to be vulnerable, make mistakes, and still know that we are just as equally loved and cared for, and wont be abandoned. No human views another human as perfect, in the long term, so why wouldn't you want to be unconditionally loved by someone(fully accepted as someone who will make mistakes)?

Conditional love does not mean there is no room for mistakes. If someone you were happened to hide the fact he was a serial murderer though, your opinion of that person would be bound to change somewhat. The love you had for that person wasn't unconditional. This is an extreme example, but I'm merely using it to illustrate the point. I want to be loved for my flaws, but not unconditionally. If I cheated on my SO I wouldn't expect her to just forgive me. There are conditions to a relationship. It's something inherent to relationships in fact.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Hmmm, yes I do like to believe in unconditional love. But then I start to think why would I want to be loved unconditionally if I've done nothing wrong and plan on doing nothing wrong? And if something I've done, which I don't think is wrong, is regarded as such by someone I'm with...why would I want to be with that person in the first place?

Not questions directed at you...just brainstorming. :)

i follow you here. and i understand what you mean i think. you are saying your are perfect in your own way, and if someone perceives you as being flawed, that is their own shortcoming and doesn't have anything to do with you. since love is such a complex Thing, it is difficult to discuss, and probably shouldn't be at great length here because this is about flirting. but, since i think it's important, and it appears others do too, i will just say that this explanation from wikipedia regarding unconditional love best represents how i feel about it:

Professor Mario Beauregard, from Montreal University's centre for research into neurophysiology and cognition, used MRI to study active areas of the brain of people, who were most likely to experience unconditional love. Subjects were asked to call to mind feelings of unconditional love. Researches saw 7 active areas in the brain. Three of those areas were similar to regions in the brain that became active when it came to romantic love. The other four were different, which means that the feeling of love for someone without the need of being rewarded is different from the feeling of romantic love.
In his study professor Beauregard found that some brain areas that turned on when a person felt unconditional love also engaged in discharging dopamine, chemical that plays a role in sensing pleasure. [1]

so, unconditional love for me is about how i love. others might reap the benefit of being the recipient of unconditional love, but, i believe, the goal of it should be simply because it feels good for the giver. and i'm sure as perfect as you are, and we all are in our own ways, we will and do fuck up. no matter what happens regarding negotiations and boundaries and agreements (even if we get divorced or our kids become killers), i'm sure we prefer to know that we have people in our lives that love us regardless.


An ENTP guy I've known nearly 8 years just told me that he's been in love with me all this time. There is no guarantee with them either. And um, he got married to someone else before telling me this. It's just men, and women, and communicating. It's all mind boggling and confusing, but I try to take it all at face value and have fun with it and appreciate whatever positive role people have played in my life(even if I wanted more...or less).

wowza! that's crazy. i feel compelled to ask--do you like him too? i'm curious to know how you found out about his feelings. how did he tell you this? facebook? haha. :)
 

CzeCze

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Hey Scientist, I sympathize with you. I didn't read your whole thread, but I get the gist of what happened and how you feel.

No he wouldn't. He would give me some lame 'ol excuse and not be honest with me. ENFP is not going to tell me the truth if it's going to be hurtful.

Correction, a weak-willed ENFP will avoid telling you the truth when you ask for it and are entitled to it. If being deceitful and dishonest because the truth makes you uncomfortable or because you are straight up manipulative, oh hell no, I'm turning in my ENFP card!

An ENFP who has ironed out their personal code of ethics and decided to step up for the greater good will tell the truth when you want it and sometimes when you don't want it. ;)

Some Fi doms suck at telling the truth. Or sometimes unbridled Fi will keep an Fi from telling the truth when they should.

For no other reason than it makes them uncomfortable and they are afraid of your reaction/how things will change once they let it out. Sometimes it's just this gut/instinctive fear or hesitation.

No one deserves being jerked around and I personally can't fucking stand liars. Liars are either cowards or selfish or both.

I mean, there are SO many ways to tell the truth, to articulate something (and in theory ENFPs are supposed to excel in this!) I mean, you can still BS and embellish and soften and obfuscate and imply and tell the truth. So with all those option to still lie?

I cant put up with his BS anymore. I'm done with it.

Good for you. Down with the tyranny of bs! :D

Again, sorry, haven't read the whole story, but will you be sending him an email explaining exactly how you feel with specific examples of bs or confronting him directly? I do agree with EnfPer that the best conclusions to draw will be on direct information from him.

Also, this is not to let someone off the hook for misleading you - but in what ways did you allow yourself to be mislead? Did you see and hear what you wanted to?

You have already said you directly confronted/asked him what was going on? Which is exactly what you should do if you are unclear about someone's intent or you yourself have intentions.

I think though, if you try a few times to get to the bottom of things or to let someone know your boundaries and expectations - if things still don't change you should walk away.

Confront and walk away much sooner next time. Don't let things linger when there is a lack of clarity.

Maybe an ENTP and I would fare better.

Oh helllllll no. On this I will agree with my fellow ENFPS - if you want accountability and clarity (in regards to "flirting" et. al.) you are not moving up with an ENTP (just check the 'ENTP Sex' thread).

I don't think it's a bad idea for you for right now at least to take flirting as total bs and just not engage with anyone you think is trying to flrit with you. Until you at least sort out better the POV and intent of the people who are trying to flirt with you. A polite smile, a nod, that's all you need to acknowledge it and move on.

Not all people who flirt with you are desperate attention whores who need to get their egos stroked. :)

But, assuming that they are is probably better for you right now than to go along with it.
 

Charmed Justice

Nickle Iron Silicone
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
2,805
MBTI Type
INFJ
wowza! that's crazy. i feel compelled to ask--do you like him too? i'm curious to know how you found out about his feelings. how did he tell you this? facebook? haha. :)

I know. It's crazy! I don't like him, although I did then but never let myself fall for him. I didn't know it was so deep for him though. He just kinda came out with it, asking me if he could talk to me....And yes, Facebook is the devil.:D
 

thescientist

New member
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
254
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
I mean, there are SO many ways to tell the truth, to articulate something (and in theory ENFPs are supposed to excel in this!) I mean, you can still BS and embellish and soften and obfuscate and imply and tell the truth. So with all those option to still lie?
I equivalate BS with lying.

Also, this is not to let someone off the hook for misleading you - but in what ways did you allow yourself to be mislead? Did you see and hear what you wanted to?
Probably the biggest mistake I did was overlook the fact that on one of our dates, I used the word 'date' and he said "dont use that word. it's too serious". So I asked, then what is it? And he said "we're just having fun". However, he continued to ask me out and flirt and make out. Then he gradually stopped contact with me, never asked me out again, however, CONTINUED to flirt with me at work and kiss me at work.

He no longer kisses me, but continues to flirt, and it's pretty aggressive flirting. I'm just angry at myself for allowing it, and for being a stupid hopeful, and for giving in to all of his flirtations.

You have already said you directly confronted/asked him what was going on? Which is exactly what you should do if you are unclear about someone's intent or you yourself have intentions.
No, I have not confronted him. If you read from pages 13 and on, you will see my reason for it. i debate it in my head all the time, but the consensus seems to not confront at this point. If you have anything to add you can post over there. I've gotten mixed suggestions.


Not all people who flirt with you are desperate attention whores who need to get their egos stroked. :)
I realize this as I do NOT flirt for self-validation or to get reactions out of others.
 
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