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[ENFP] ENFP's and flirting

Amargith

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Of course it takes time. But constantly justifying your actions and seeing nothing wrong with them, and saying "well, it's the journey towards enlightenment" just smells like irresponsibility. It's like "poor me, I can't help being who I am, but surely I can't be blamed for that. I can only blame the mean TJs that judge people harshly and without feelings. Me? I'm on the path to something better. I'm not perfect. I can't be expected to be perfect. So I'll just keep doing what comes naturally to me."


Basically I don't understand the point in what you just said? What are you trying to say? That it takes time? I'm not saying it doesn't.

I'm saying we're all human and we're all immature at some point. I'm not condoning it, and yes, I agree that we should try to minimize the damage we do to others. VEry much so. But give people a chance to work things out. And don't condemn them on making a mistake. Stop expecting them to be perfect, especially if they show that they are working on it, and struggling with it.

And lastly, who the f*** determines that the way an ENFP goes about talking to another is wrong. It comes naturally to *most of us* and we're not the only immature people around, I'd like to add. There's a bunch of introverts who are very much very possessive and jealous once they get interested in a person, as they don't easily invest in another person. And I understand that, and that's their immaturity and there is nothing wrong with them having that as a flaw, as they too are still growing.

What I'm saying is that both are to blame. Not just one of 'em. Understanding where everyone is coming from, is key. And neither should have to give up their way of being though thoughtfulness can be implemented once understanding is reached. From both sides.
 

Keps Mnemnosyne

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I do like how we have two conversation at once in this topic.

I do know about social psychology as well as social dynamics of mammals. My suggestion to you would be reading about bonobos.

My point in the previous post is that you do interact with women at least briefly without expecting dates. Friendship with women is simply a deeper interaction.
 

Charmed Justice

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I see people throwing that kind of line left and right and I can't help but feel it smells a bit untrue, really. I don't see ENFPs making much of an effort to understand things that go directly against their Fi, that often. ENFPs shrug people off as mean or deluded or judgmental just as often as any other type.
It's a broad sweeping generalization not to be taken literally, which is why I said "kinda interested". Obviously there are lots of people out there, and we only get a chance to interact with a few. Once I happen to end up talking to someone, however that happens, I do become deeply interested in who they are as a person. I don't **shrug** people off as mean, deluded, or judgmental, and I don't think most other ENFPs do either. It's more often that we're the type to give people too many, not too few, chances in a quest to understand.
 

Lauren Ashley

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It's a broad sweeping generalization not to be taken literally, which is why I said "kinda interested". Obviously there are lots of people out there, and we only get a chance to interact with a few. Once I happen to end up talking to someone, however that happens, I do become deeply interested in who they are as a person. I don't **shrug** people off as mean, deluded, or judgmental, and I don't think most other ENFPs do either. It's more often that we're the type to give people too many, not too few, chances in a quest to understand.

I don't know about you specifically, but it's definitely been a trend of ENFPs on this forum to shrug off opinions of others as being judgmental or unfeeling. Especially, and possibly only, if the person giving the opinion has a "J" or "T" in their type code.
 

Keps Mnemnosyne

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Into this other conversation I go,

I do have a friendship with a female ENFP, and she is playful with her comments, but not flirty. What I did was to be playful back. Others around us interpret our conversations as flirting and are coming up to me and asking when I am going to ask her out. I just say that I am not interested in her. She knows that neither of us are interested in each other romantically. I talk to her because she likes to talk about subjects I like to think about. I guess my point is that ENFP conversation may be interpreted as flirting, but it generally isn't.
 

Liminality

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Coming from an iNFP:

I think for my birthday this year I'm gonna ask for a day where every one I interact with is an ENFP in the lightly flirting mode.

Eye contact and teasing matches are great fun when you're both clear about it being a game, it's a really nice way to feel connected and just lighten things up but kind've energize them at the same time. It's like emotionally holding hands, abit.

Eye contact depends on the person.

It's like when you can tease or criticize a freind without them feeling pushed away and insulted, you've passed into the friendship stages.

But this is coming from someone who actively avoids (and would 99.9999% never flirt with) those she's attracted to, and is terrible with picking up romantic signals apart from when it's between two men in the movies :)smile:), and even then I have trouble.

I've accidentally lead a guy on before, too, not realising my attempts to be attentive, warm, open and playful were the wrong way to go with him. Truth of the matter was I just really cared for him as a friend :doh:. We get on great now though, he's like my mummydaddy :smile:.

The hilarious thing is, if I'd made this one comment a little clearer, it'd've been clear as day -_-;.

I think this also comes from having had pretty bad social anxiety for a long long time, I've been learning how to beat it, truth is you've just gotta push yourself out into the deep end if you can take it.

Into this other conversation I go,

I do have a friendship with a female ENFP, and she is playful with her comments, but not flirty. What I did was to be playful back. Others around us interpret our conversations as flirting and are coming up to me and asking when I am going to ask her out. I just say that I am not interested in her. She knows that neither of us are interested in each other romantically. I talk to her because she likes to talk about subjects I like to think about. I guess my point is that ENFP conversation may be interpreted as flirting, but it generally isn't.

Yes!
 

Mr.Time

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You ENFPs are full of BS...I can't tolerate this anymore. Where is your logic and rational thinking? Flirting leads people on. Flirting is an evolutionary utility created to make the process of mating easier. You can believe what you want, but in the end all the friends you have of the opposite sex are interested in you sexually. You are interested in them sexually also (you're just denying yourself the truth). ENFPs are known to fantasize about others while in a relationship and easily get bored with current friendships and relationships. So who are these people you think about? Really, how are others supposed to trust you?

I'm leaving this conversation to find an INTJ forum, where people use logic instead of believing what they think to be true as absolute truth. You have to use logic and base your logic on facts, not just assume that you understand everything about yourselves so well. I have to say that most of you are denying the truth to yourselves. Especially if you have INTJ friends of the opposite sex, then I doubt they are just there to be "friends"...if you don't feel sexual attraction, then you're leading them on, and you're about to crush all their hopes. When that's done, they will stop talking to you, forever, because that's what INTJs do.
 

Amargith

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Actually, I've been with an INTJ for 10 years. We have a very happy relationship. I hope you one day will see that logic and reason are not the tools to use when it comes to love and relationships, and that it is possible to be a sensible and wise person without relying on those tools predominantly. It will make your life a lot easier. Otherwise, I fear you will get frustrated again in the future as people just aren't the way you think they should be. We cannot all be like you :)


If you truly seek answers to the questions you just put in your post, I will gladly answer them for you. Feel free to PM me. If you only tossed them out there in frustration, then there's no point in answering them...yet. Take care :)
 

Liminality

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You ENFPs are full of BS...I can't tolerate this anymore. Where is your logic and rational thinking? Flirting leads people on. Flirting is an evolutionary utility created to make the process of mating easier. You can believe what you want, but in the end all the friends you have of the opposite sex are interested in you sexually. You are interested in them sexually also (you're just denying yourself the truth). ENFPs are known to fantasize about others while in a relationship and easily get bored with current friendships and relationships. So who are these people you think about? Really, how are others supposed to trust you?

I'm leaving this conversation to find an INTJ forum, where people use logic instead of believing what they think to be true as absolute truth. You have to use logic and base your logic on facts, not just assume that you understand everything about yourselves so well. I have to say that most of you are denying the truth to yourselves. Especially if you have INTJ friends of the opposite sex, then I doubt they are just there to be "friends"...if you don't feel sexual attraction, then you're leading them on, and you're about to crush all their hopes. When that's done, they will stop talking to you, forever, because that's what INTJs do.

Scientists Create Human Sperm from Stem Cells - TIME

Men and sex=obselete :D
 

Mr.Time

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If you truly seek answers to the questions you just put in your post, I will gladly answer them for you. Feel free to PM me. If you only tossed them out there in frustration, then there's no point in answering them...yet. Take care

Hey, I tried to PM you, but it says your inbox is full (or something like that).
 

Keps Mnemnosyne

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Mr. Time they are using logic, it is a different version from yours, but it is valid. That was the point of MBTI. There is not a single correct way of living. I think that at best NTs will try not to assume anything until it's proven, whereas NFs are more likely to believe in something that can't be disproved. Neither side is more right than the other, no matter how much it is argued.

Secondly you have used alot of generalizations. I know for certain that I am not attracted to the ENFP girl disproving for me your idea that I am interested in her sexually. You have assumed that your viewpoint is absolute truth. Logic is based on premises that cannot be proven or disproven.

I am not trying to argue with you. I am trying to engage in a meaningful debate about it, because I do have friendships with women and yet you state that I cannot without sexual tension. I will think about the idea that unconsciously I still want to have sex with these women of my age group, but I do have friendships with women much older than me who I would never want to have sex with.
 

INTP

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You ENFPs are full of BS...I can't tolerate this anymore. Where is your logic and rational thinking? Flirting leads people on. Flirting is an evolutionary utility created to make the process of mating easier. You can believe what you want, but in the end all the friends you have of the opposite sex are interested in you sexually. You are interested in them sexually also (you're just denying yourself the truth). ENFPs are known to fantasize about others while in a relationship and easily get bored with current friendships and relationships. So who are these people you think about? Really, how are others supposed to trust you?

I'm leaving this conversation to find an INTJ forum, where people use logic instead of believing what they think to be true as absolute truth. You have to use logic and base your logic on facts, not just assume that you understand everything about yourselves so well. I have to say that most of you are denying the truth to yourselves. Especially if you have INTJ friends of the opposite sex, then I doubt they are just there to be "friends"...if you don't feel sexual attraction, then you're leading them on, and you're about to crush all their hopes. When that's done, they will stop talking to you, forever, because that's what INTJs do.

+1

But you enfp girls are still the best :wubbie:

Problem with this is that the same thing that makes them do all these bad things is the same thing that makes you the best. So dont worry about it, just be yourself, but this is something you guys and girls need to think about a little(if you havent allready thought about it).
 

Liminality

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Essentially
ENFPs: cut the shit.
INTJs: PLAY WITH IT! *-o_o-*
 

BlackCat

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The thing that always confused me about ENFPs is exactly what confused Mr.Time- Why flirt unless you are sexually interested?

And about this connection stuff. You can connect to people without leading them on and flirting with them. I love connecting with people, but if I'm not sexually interested I don't flirt. It's just that simple.

And every, EVERY ENFP female I've met in real life and on the internet has been a hopeless flirt. Even if they are in a dedicated relationship. It just makes no sense to me.

And whenever I ask about this I just get a bunch of butt hurt ENFPs making up irrational arguments to defend their position and I never get a real reason. Why is flirting the preferred method? Most people "connect" to others in a non flirty way and it's totally fine. All this does is lead people on and confuse them. We aren't mind readers, how is the typical, single guy supposed to know that you want something that's "just friends"? We don't. I've been lead on my ENFP girls in real life and I don't like it. It's gotten to where if I encounter an ENFP girl in real life and she starts to flirt, I don't even pay attention to it. I know that nothing will come out of it.

So again, without getting butt hurt, explain how being flirtatious is better than just talking like a normal human being and not leading someone on.

I mean really. It's like you don't think of other people's feelings when you do this. You are supposed to be NFs, aren't you masters with other people's feelings? How can you be totally unaware of what this does to males?

*waits for the major flames from ENFPs*
 

INTP

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You are supposed to be NFs, aren't you masters with other people's feelings? How can you be totally unaware of what this does to males?

Ne as main function and Fi as second?
 

Amargith

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Flirting tends to make both people involved quite good. Boosts their ego, makes them bond, allows them to have fun. As long as everyone is clear on where you stand, why wouldn't you use it?
 

Charmed Justice

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It's not "better than" other forms of communication BlackCat, and I haven't seen anyone here say it was. It's simply one of the ways that we communicate.

I've never been accused of leading anyone on; ok once, but I was like 13, and I did really like the guy. I've kept most of my close guy friends over the course of 10-15 years. I have a hard time believing that they're waiting in the wings for me, secretly pissed off at me, because we've mutually flirted for so many years. Then again, almost all of my close guy friends are ESXPs, and they flirt more than I do with the same generally playful intent.
 

allie bug

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Could you please clarify what you are saying? And, sorry. I have a hard time believing flirting is how most ENFPs get to know other people. Do you flirt with everyone? And if not, why? What is the criteria for flirting?

being genuinely interested in someone's beliefs, personal life, interests,etc. is, more often than not, taken as flirting. I engage in the same "mindplay" (i guess that's what you can call connecting with someone in a conversation) with my girlfriends as I do with male friends. Why can't I honestly be interested in what you have to say without an having an ulterior motive?

Do you mean what the criteria is for me to flirt or what the definition of flirting actually is?

see...that is just bs why the hell do people put such limitations on themselves...there are far too many interesting people in the world to limit your friends to those of the same sex...as mature adults can people honestly not be real friends with the opposite sex? come on...that's absurd.

Agreed!

it's definitely been a trend of ENFPs on this forum to shrug off opinions of others as being judgmental or unfeeling. Especially, and possibly only, if the person giving the opinion has a "J" or "T" in their type code.

I find that people with J and T types are often the best to get insight from because they can have different life outlooks and thinking styles than myself. However, some J and T people, and everything other type for that matter, can be judgemenal or unfeeling.

....I've missed a lot of posts. i need to catch up :coffee:
 

BlackCat

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It's not "better than" other forms of communication BlackCat, and I haven't seen anyone here say it was. It's simply one of the ways that we communicate.

I've never been accused of leading anyone on; ok once, but I was like 13, and I did really like the guy. I've kept most of my close guy friends over the course of 10-15 years. I have a hard time believing that they're waiting in the wings for me, secretly pissed off at me, because we've mutually flirted for so many years. Then again, almost all of my close guy friends are ESXPs, and they flirt more than I do with the same generally playful intent.

Lol I'm not talking about you as individuals, the fact that you don't lead people on is great EnFpFer. What makes you (ENFPs) decide what kind of communication to use, flirting vs normal?

Flirting tends to make both people involved quite good. Boosts their ego, makes them bond, allows them to have fun. As long as everyone is clear on where you stand, why wouldn't you use it?

Where did I say that it wasn't fine if both parties were aware of the situation? If someone ISN'T aware then it's not okay. And this is where a lot of ENFPs I've met are at a fault with their communication.
 
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