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Thread: ENFP's and flirting

  1. #61
    Nickle Iron Silicone Array Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    A ISTJ good at flirting?
    I know....He leans I, for sure, but he knows how to bring the E. He flirts well until he starts talking. He's not all that great with words, but very good with body language. He can actually wink, and it looks good. When I wink. Well, let's just say, I don't wink.

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    Senior Member Array Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    To me, love is love. I don't believe the ultimate form of love has to be unconditional. But the OP posted a blog by a man who spoke of flirtatiousness as being "selfish". My response is that most love is selfish, and is not unconditional, had he thought of it like this, he wouldn't have seen flirting as an "evil" but as simply another part of the human need to have our needs met. Flirting is a form of communication that seeks to engage another at some level. It goes wrong when people misinterpret signals, or go from flirting to manipulating.
    Personally, I don't think flirting is selfish per se. But just like the statement "fuck you", it can be interpreted in different ways. The difference is when "fuck you" is interpreted in a bad way the worst that can happen is you are driving someone away. With flirting it's more akin to betrayal since "you were leading someone on" in the worst case scenario.

    For someone who lives his/her lives without a sense of ethics/conscience and cause - > effect, being naturally flirty is no crime. But as feeler and a pretty empathic person , I prefer to not fuck with people's minds. Flirting for the sake of it can be just that. If one flirts to get the attention of someone one is genuinely interested in, to me, that seems ok. But to flirt with everybody feels very wrong to me personally. Not to mention hypocritical. I don't have the same interest in everyone, so why should any be given the same attention?



    My husband is an ISTJ, and he actually makes a great flirt too. When women flirt with him, I find that attractive and he finds it attractive when men flirt with me.
    What exactly do you mean by attractive?


    It's really about who you are, and what you need. For me, when I feel secure(sexy, attractive, worthy of attention and admiration), I flirt. If I feel insecure(unattractive, uninteresting), then I'm shy, I hide, and I don't flirt because I don't want to be seen or noticed. This is contrary to what a lot of people seem to assume: that people flirt out of insecurity. It seems to me that the most confident people flirt, and the least confident don't.
    What do you think makes you feel secure or insecure?




    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry
    i like your posts. you make me think about things in a different way. i tread uncomfortably close to the relativistic line in most things in my life; i can rationalize and reconcile to the point that i feel like almost nothing matters at times. with two exceptions: my family and close friends. so, for me, unconditional love gives me something to strive for and a healthy context to grow within, while fostering one the the most important focuses in my life: others. i think the most positively influential people in history have striven to unconditionally love others, and that is good enough for me. plus it just feels right and good. loving (not necessarily romantic love) someone feels wonderful to me. loving unconditionally releases me from only being able to do that when another returns the love. perhaps my pursuit of unconditional love is akin to others' pursuit of knowing their God or Gods. ?
    Hmmm, yes I do like to believe in unconditional love. But then I start to think why would I want to be loved unconditionally if I've done nothing wrong and plan on doing nothing wrong? And if something I've done, which I don't think is wrong, is regarded as such by someone I'm with...why would I want to be with that person in the first place?

    Not questions directed at you...just brainstorming.

  3. #63
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    I identify with this, strongly. But more so in my teens and early twenties. I still am flirty, but not as liberally with everyone. I'm older and wiser now, ha.
    "Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul." - Edward Abbey

    "In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled." Daniel 10:2-3


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    Senior Member Array thescientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I identify with this, strongly. But more so in my teens and early twenties. I still am flirty, but not as liberally with everyone. I'm older and wiser now, ha.
    I think this is definitely a pattern among young ENFP's.

    All I can say is to those ENFP's who do flirt with everyone, just be careful how far you take it. It's very hurtful indeed to lead someone on... :ouch:

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I personally don't really see how the bad behavior and manipulative flirting described so far in this thread is very different from the 'harmless and friendly flirting' described.

    And Ne-Monster, what I meant before about how you may flirt without knowing it - Ne helps you just go with the flow and interplay with other people's energy. It's very possible that when you thought you were just joking around with someone that they interpreted it as flirting or other people would call it flirting. Kinda like how when Lady X said she's just being polite and people interpret it as flirting. If we're talking about intentionalflirting it can also just be playfulness, but at least in my definition, it's also about the energy involved? If two people are clearly attracted to each other it's hard not to imbue light social interaction with an element of "flirting".

    What do you usually do Ne Monster when you are into someone?
    When I think someone is cute, I avoid them and dont make eye contact. This doesnt usually work out well However I spend a lot of time living NeTe style. This means not only am I not open for others to make offers, I am also just not interested. It is a very practical, asexual sort of thing. I have went for years only have a very abstract interest in men, and not having sex and been okay with it. (Fi likes sex)

    People can see the Fi leak out of the edges, they understand I care deeply for others but they dont mistake it for flirting.

    Now-in the last six months I have really tried to be more open with Fi-and I have had a case where a man thought I was flirting. I immediately apologized and said how much respect i had for his wife and his marriage. But I could FEEL the transition in his behavior and in mine, very quickly, when it happened and immediately stop and clarify.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Agreed. It kinda baffles me really. I'm known for many things but mixed signals are pretty much impossible when you are with me. I'm very much aware of what could be interpreted as flirting by nearly everyone. If I'm really interested, chances are I'll have a really hard time saying it out loud... just like that. But if my interest is only on a platonic level I'll make it pretty apparent right from the get go.

    Like I said numerous times I can be quite abrasive/intimidating/whatever in the way I communicate. When chatting with guys there's no danger of them misinterpreting it for ...I dunno....being an actuall ass :P Guys don't usually sugarcoat stuff when talking with each other. I see this trend of guys being a lot "nicer" when chatting with girls in general though. Maybe that's why I never get misinterpreted by girls, because I usually talk exactly the same way.

    I might be subconsciously in denial or something, but threads like this coupled with some other stuff almost makes me doubt my type...
    At work we suddenly had an influx of ENFP male executives. They are all heavy Te users. They remind me of you sytpg and of noigmn. I really enjoy working with them and they do not exhibit the flirting at all. (My entps are the culprits there )

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    well, thank you for the validation, but i'm condensing about one and a half year's worth of relating into a few paragraphs. it wouldn't appear to be manipulation in the real world, and didn't. it's really only in hindsight that i can see it all in context; that i was just her latest project and she milked me for all she could get. and there is no doubt in my mind she did all this subconsciously. i just think other enfps could glean something from my sharing of this personal experience and remember that a new person/friend/love interest is not the same thing as a new hobby.
    thanks, that is a very important lesson. We can be flippant.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    I think this is definitely a pattern among young ENFP's.

    All I can say is to those ENFP's who do flirt with everyone, just be careful how far you take it. It's very hurtful indeed to lead someone on... :ouch:
    Agreed. I had several incidents in my late teens where I was flirty with guys who I thought were just my friends, and it was all cool, only to find out that they got upset when I didn't want to date them. I really, honestly thought there was just this mutual understanding of friendship with occasional (but never serious or physical) flirtation.

    I think I abused it much more in my early 20's, sometimes to my advantage, sometimes to my peril. I was never one of those chicks who was like "ha ha I'm going to lead on this poor, innocent guy and make him buy me things" or anything evil like that, though. I know people who take it that far and it just seems horribly cruel, not to mention possibly dangerous.

    I flirt now much more rarely, when I do it's casual, and have better emotional boundaries. I did it very much for the reasons of fun and personal affirmation of attractiveness rather than sex. Now I'm more cautious, but I can be wildly flirtatious with someone I'm genuinely attracted to.
    "Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul." - Edward Abbey

    "In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled." Daniel 10:2-3


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  7. #67
    Emperor/Dictator Array kyuuei's Avatar
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    ^ Just as a side thought inspired by your post.. I don't understand how a woman can accept gifts from someone she has no intentions of being involved with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Personally, I don't think flirting is selfish per se. But just like the statement "fuck you", it can be interpreted in different ways. The difference is when "fuck you" is interpreted in a bad way the worst that can happen is you are driving someone away. With flirting it's more akin to betrayal since "you were leading someone on" in the worst case scenario.
    Don't agree here. What we say is but a small part of what we are truly saying, if that makes any sense. Our body language makes up the bulk of our communication. There is a clear difference between an antagonistic "fuck you" and a seductive one or a silly one. Yes, miscommunication occurs in flirting, like in all forms of communication. That's why, for the most part, people seek people who understand them and think like they do. In part, it is to avoid the drama of miscommunication and difference in communication style.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    For someone who lives his/her lives without a sense of ethics/conscience and cause - > effect, being naturally flirty is no crime. But as feeler and a pretty empathic person , I prefer to not fuck with people's minds. Flirting for the sake of it can be just that. If one flirts to get the attention of someone one is genuinely interested in, to me, that seems ok. But to flirt with everybody feels very wrong to me personally. Not to mention hypocritical. I don't have the same interest in everyone, so why should any be given the same attention?
    Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. I'm thinking you don't really have the ability to determine the motivations or degree of ethics and conscience in comparison to your own, of people you don't know and clearly don't understand. Being naturally flirty is no crime, and is biologically ingrained in the human psyche(apparently more so in some than others). It is language like all other language. Yes, it can be intentionally abused and misused, but being a "feeler" and highly "empathetic" doesn't make someone adverse to flirting. We never communicate with each other "just for the sake of it", and our lack of understanding of another's motivations or intent does not make us right and them wrong. I haven't seen anyone say that they flirt with everybody they meet and everyone they know. Who are these people?







    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    What exactly do you mean by attractive?
    I mean that we, as husband and wife, find it appealing and seductive when we see that others still see us as highly attractive sexual beings by flirting with us. I fully embrace my sexuality, and my sexuality is a part of who I am.




    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    What do you think makes you feel secure or insecure?
    For me, I get insecure when I don't feel like I'm contributing to the world as I could be. I have had moments like that, and trust me, flirting is not something I do in those times. I highly doubt depressed people flirt. Flirting is playfulness, and playfulness is typically a sign of emotional health.






    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Hmmm, yes I do like to believe in unconditional love. But then I start to think why would I want to be loved unconditionally if I've done nothing wrong and plan on doing nothing wrong? And if something I've done, which I don't think is wrong, is regarded as such by someone I'm with...why would I want to be with that person in the first place?
    So you're saying, you wouldn't want to be with someone unless they only viewed you as a person who is always right-at least, in the moral sense? Part of being in a life long relationship, from my understanding, is negotiation of standards, values, and morality. It is indeed, one of the hardest parts. There will be times when your spouse/LT partner believes you've done something wrong(with the kids, financially, in your spiritual quest, whatever), and you don't agree. Are you saying, you would leave a marriage or LT relationship when that occurs? Unconditional love frees us to be vulnerable, make mistakes, and still know that we are just as equally loved and cared for, and wont be abandoned. No human views another human as perfect, in the long term, so why wouldn't you want to be unconditionally loved by someone(fully accepted as someone who will make mistakes)?

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    Senior Member Array thescientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    For me, I get insecure when I don't feel like I'm contributing to the world as I could be. I have had moments like that, and trust me, flirting is not something I do in those times. I highly doubt depressed people flirt. Flirting is playfulness, and playfulness is typically a sign of emotional health.
    Disagree, it is unhealthy and a sign of insecurity when flirting is needed for self-validation, not to mention potentially hurtful to others. Unless you genuinely like the person, I think it's just wrong. This is coming from someone who was just led on big time by an ENFP. He goes around flirting even with coworkers I'm certain he's not attracted to. It's quite obvious he does this because he loves getting a reaction out of people. It makes HIM feel good. He took it too far with me and I ended up feeling used and hurt.

    Who says depressed people dont flirt? And who says flirtation is an indication that one is happy? Just because one is depressed doesn't mean they cant flirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    Disagree, it is unhealthy and a sign of insecurity when flirting is needed for self-validation, not to mention potentially hurtful to others. Unless you genuinely like the person, I think it's just wrong. This is coming from someone who was just led on big time by an ENFP. He goes around flirting even with coworkers I'm certain he's not attracted to. It's quite obvious he does this because he loves getting a reaction out of people. It makes HIM feel good. He took it too far with me and I ended up feeling used and hurt.

    Who says depressed people dont flirt? And who says flirtation is an indication that one is happy? Just because one is depressed doesn't mean they cant flirt.

    I'm sorry you and this ENFP guy weren't on the same page, but isn't part of relating to someone occasionally being rejected(or finding out that we aren't compatible with them as a result of their personal style or motivations)? Does that make communication(or different types of it) inherently wrong? Did you talk to this ENFP guy and ask him what his deal was? I try not to assume that I know the inner workings of someone's mind, their motivations, or their needs(unless we are extremely intimate).

    You say he flirts with co-workers you are "sure" he is not attracted to. Ok. Many long-term relationships begin with flirting, and without a mutual attraction. Just because he is not attracted to them right now, doesn't mean that not one of them has a chance with him. It just depends on how each of them responds to him, and how he responds back. Flirting is, in and of itself, a negotiation and screening of interest. It seals no deal. It is simply the negotiation process.


    You may want to take a look at this article by the Social Issues Research Center on flirting: SIRC Guide to flirting Here is an excerpt:

    Flirting is much more than just a bit of fun: it is a universal and essential aspect of human interaction. Anthropological research shows that flirting is to be found, in some form, in all cultures and societies around the world.

    Flirting is a basic instinct, part of human nature. This is not surprising: if we did not initiate contact and express interest in members of the opposite sex, we would not progress to reproduction, and the human species would become extinct.



    The article is very long, but touches on the psychology of flirting, and also how Western cultures have made attempts to moralize flirting. Flirting begins with babies and the non-manipulative type is playful. Playfulness IS a sign of emotional health, and one of the signs of depression in children AND adults is a decrease in playfulness. Some depressed people may indeed flirt, but flirting is much more likely to be done by someone who is generally happy and emotionally healthy because again, in it's natural form, it is a sign of play. Depressed children play, but happy children play much more.

    This article actually asserts that the "opposite of play is depression": Depression? Play is New Cure, Revealed from Grow Your Green Business |

    Now, if you can find me something that proves that flirtation is not lite communicative play(done by adults and children alike), but is in fact, a form of human communication done by insecure/emotionally unhealthy types who are looking to manipulate others for their own devious desire for "self-validation"....well then, I'll see your point. No one wants to be used and hurt by sadistic types who take pleasure in other's pain. Flirting is not that though, so I'm thinking you're talking more about flirting used AS manipulation...like words used AS verbal abuse.

    Also, what exactly is "self-validation"? I ask because I've heard this term used a lot, and the connotation is that self-validation is wrong. It's almost like when frustrated parents say their children "just want attention"....as if something is wrong with wanting someone to pay attention to you.

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