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  1. #31
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    (edit) I am an drunk + an asshole
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  2. #32
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    A spinoff on my INTJ/ENFP thread update. I came across an ENFP's blog and he had a post on flirting.
    Wow...I'm sort of speechless. This is my ENFP best friend in a nutshell! This side of her is the only side I "don't like" ....very manipulative in this regard and I've noticed she just needs to know that the person finds her attractive or she can "have" the person...then her interest fades. I've noticed she turns this "on" especially when someone else is getting more attention than her or two of her friends are bonding over something and she's not necessarily the center of the attention during that time.

    I know that this sends mixed messages to the other person involved and yet at the same time she has so many "followers" who await this attention from her...it's sort of pathetic to watch these people, imo...but I understand that they don't know her motivation behind it. Or know her very well. It's surface and unfortunately, narcissistic. She's way too gorgeous to need this from people. But is this a need that an ENFP has? OR is this something that is...entertaining to the ENFP? I get the feeling she's entertaining herself AND boosting her self-esteem at the same time. Which is why this works with people...there's an element of truth in the flirting that unless you knew her, you would buy into it as being much more serious than it actually is.
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  3. #33
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Wow...I'm sort of speechless. This is my ENFP best friend in a nutshell!
    Really?

    But is this a need that an ENFP has?
    Apparently for some ENFPs, yes?

    OR is this something that is...entertaining to the ENFP?
    I'm gonna say yes. "Playing" with people (both with and without the negative connotation) is entertaining to EPs.

    I get the feeling she's entertaining herself AND boosting her self-esteem at the same time. Which is why this works with people...there's an element of truth in the flirting that unless you knew her, you would buy into it as being much more serious than it actually is.
    I'm tempted to say the kind of behavior you described is summed up by one word: insecurity.

    Good thing for you though to observe all this so you know that you should NEVER take flirting seriously.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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  4. #34
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kobe View Post
    How do you ENFP's show that you are really interested in someone? (not in a flirty way)
    I'd start by 'flirting' with you. It's one of the easiest ways to create a connection between two people and it's really enjoyable. From there on, if we click, I'll be more curious about you and come back to you often and amp up the games. This *still* doesn't mean I'm interested in you romantically. It means you as a person intrigue me and I enjoy spending time with you. Also, I'm gathering info on you: your values, your povs in life, how you respond to stuff, etc.

    If you..well I guess you could say, pass the test, you go to the next level. I have people who stay at these 'levels', which I like, who's company I enjoy, but there is nothing deeper because we have no common ground or whatever.

    Once there's some intensity, once it's clear there's something deeper there that we connect over, I'll spend more one on one time with you, getting into more serious conversations. You'll notice the drop in flirty remarks and sheer banter. I'll still do it, to break up the convo a bit, but this is intended for me to verify all the data I've collected and to get to know you for real. At this point, you're becoming a friend. And, if this process goes well, and it continues on, you're likely to become a close friend, unless I discover something that indicates I cannot trust you with who I am.

    At some point, I have a click happening, you'll say something that indicates to me that I can trust you fully. And I'll relax. I'll still tease you but less again, the serious probing and questionning will also slow down and I'll just seek you out to be in your presence. And I'll be ok with just being around you without talking. I also might become more physical as I trust you to come close.


    Now here's the important detail: this can happen with a trusted platonic friend. However, if you notice that we have some serious chemistry and heat going on between us, I'm definitely into you by the end of that process, for a serious relationship (provided I'm single).

    The other stages (from the moment the banter actually causes heat and chemistry) could potentially lead to one night stands or fuckbuddies, if I were to do those things.
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  5. #35
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Wow...I'm sort of speechless. This is my ENFP best friend in a nutshell! This side of her is the only side I "don't like" ....very manipulative in this regard and I've noticed she just needs to know that the person finds her attractive or she can "have" the person...then her interest fades. I've noticed she turns this "on" especially when someone else is getting more attention than her or two of her friends are bonding over something and she's not necessarily the center of the attention during that time.

    I know that this sends mixed messages to the other person involved and yet at the same time she has so many "followers" who await this attention from her...it's sort of pathetic to watch these people, imo...but I understand that they don't know her motivation behind it. Or know her very well. It's surface and unfortunately, narcissistic. She's way too gorgeous to need this from people. But is this a need that an ENFP has? OR is this something that is...entertaining to the ENFP? I get the feeling she's entertaining herself AND boosting her self-esteem at the same time. Which is why this works with people...there's an element of truth in the flirting that unless you knew her, you would buy into it as being much more serious than it actually is.
    i have to agree. i find the flirtatiousness of my new (still not firmed up ) enfp friend to be confusing and misleading. in the beginning her forthrightness at wanting to 'hang out' with me didn't get much rise or response out of me. i am a busy introvert. i knew her interest in me was in the professional realm and i don't practice my profession anymore. so i didn't see much point in taking this acquaintanceship/friendship very far. but she was persistent in her pursuit of me. haltingly, we gradually became friends over a year and a half or so. i love her zaniness and crassness. we are alike in many ways. we have many things in common. i could tell i was her latest hobby but i didn't mind so much because having so much attention, was, well, nice. actually, i likened it to being 'on a pedestal' for a long while. she had me on a pedestal.

    she would post things on my facebook page like, "i LOVE you!" "i miss you!" "i need a ----- fix soon!" and things like that. she'd post songs she thought i'd like: fun songs, risque songs, crunky songs. her husband, her most faithful minion, even flirted with me (and he's hot). she lobbied that we hang out as couples. she lobbied that we work together. she lobbied that we go camping together. she said she'd do whatever i wanted her to do if i would practice with her, apprentice her, etc. haha. i was pretty immune to her perseverance, and saw it as her playful personality, but when i was lackadaisical, she'd just pour on the charm all the more, and i noticed her (and weirdly, her husband) becoming more flirty all the time.

    well, i am a for-real person with for-real desires. we are not new to having a sexual rendezvous if the situation presents itself, which it rarely does. i had hinted early on about this side of myself with her, and she had interestingly ignored it, but i knew she had heard me. so i started becoming intrigued with her flirting. i found myself responding to her husband when he placed his hand in the small of my back and rubbed it around a little bit when they said goodbye after hanging out one night. my usual response to her sexual innuendoes and increasing flirtatious behavior, was to giggle and not say much. but as i got to know her and she slowly began 'passing my tests,' at the lake one day, i started giving it back. her innuendoes ran into mine. her sexual jokes found a warm and funny reception. we compared notes on the coloration of our sweet parts--pink or brown? her bark met my bite.

    then she began emailing more with me. when i sent her my candid email explaining forthrightly how i (as an infj) take a while to trust someone and let them into my life, and about how that is a gradual process fraught with gaining trust and sharing experiences, i started to not hear much from her anymore. i wondered where she went. she quit posting so much on my facebook page. my pms went unanswered for a longer period of time than i had ever had to wait before. my bid to go camping was basically ignored. whereas i couldn't beat this woman off with a stick before, i wondered now where she had disappeared.

    evidently she found another colleague of mine who is still practicing. she is putting all the energy into her (and more i'm sure) than she had been putting into me. she got my books, she picked my brain, she expoited me professionally for all i had, and personally for what i finally let trickle out, and now she is essentially gone back out of my life.

    i am no stranger to flirting. indeed, after reading the blog linked in this op, i have some demons to face of my own in that regard (in an unrelated issue), which makes me feel fairly ashamed. but it cannot be ignored that flirting for most people shows romantic interest in them. if you are not interested romanically in someone and you flirt anyway, you are playing with another person's feelings and emotions. if you continue flirting, and you don't personally know this person extremely well and they you, it can become quite confusing for that person. left unchecked it can escalate to him or her feeling used.
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  6. #36
    Junior Member Kobe's Avatar
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    Thank you CzeCze and Amargith for answering my question. (:
    Your answers gave me a new understanding on ENFP's and flirting.

    "We all have time to spend or waste, and it is our decision what to do with it. But once passed, it is gone forever. "-Bruce lee

  7. #37
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Good thing for you though to observe all this so you know that you should NEVER take flirting seriously.
    Oh, I fell for the charms! We dated for a brief time. But it fell apart very fast and it ended badly after this ENFP did something I considered very disrespectful. We didn't talk for a couple months afterward. She apologized and we ended up being really great friends....and everyone lived happily ever after!

    I understand a lot of what other posters are saying about the flirting. I don't know but with me, words don't carry all that much weight. I look at someone's actions to tell me their emotional involvement. I would even say that I'm more skeptical and have an innate sense of automatic distrust with a flirtatious person. Like, a "this person wants something from me...what?" kind of feeling. In that sense, ENFP's and other natural flirts, have a harder time winning me over. But I'll still play along.



    Amargith: Thank you for sharing. I can definitely see this dynamic in your type and you explained the thought process behind it very well. Kudos!
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  8. #38
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    As far as flirting being a selfish/maybe "evil" means of "using" someone else to stroke one's own ego. Well...Let me say this. Love, in the romantic sense, is not unselfish. How many of us would continue to "love" our spouses or lovers if they cheated on us, left us, or stopped doing things that otherwise stroked our egos and made US feel good about ourselves? When people stop meeting our needs, we stop meeting theirs. That's selfish, and that's romantic love. Is it wrong? I don't know, but it's what usually is.

    I don't agree with the blogger.
    love is my hobby, so i am intrigued here. is love selfish? is love unselfish? is love good? is it bad? or is it just a strong emotion waiting to have meaning attached to it, for good or evil?

    i, and most people i know, would indeed still love their partner even if they were cheated on or left or divorced. that seems unselfish. there is such a thing as unconditional love as well. and that is unselfish.

    then there is selfish love. wanting to bend others to your will and take from them their love even though you do not return their affection, or knowing you do not return it in kind. in essence, using them, getting something from them and having your ego stroked. some argue the best part of loving someone is giving freely of your love. but even that can be sticky, and lead to selfishness. if it becomes manipulative and in effect crosses their boundaries and causes them emotional harm.

    it seems to me that just because love can be subtley selfish, and selfishly subtle, one should not justify behavior that promotes that--like inappropriate flirting--but seek ways to promote unselfish love, which can and does exist.
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  9. #39
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    I don't identify with the indiscriminate flirting with anyone. Flirting, for me, is just the most natural way I know to show affection for people I like. It's a clear signal that I'm fond of you - friends, family get teased the most in this fashion. If you're being teased, it means you have reached the inner circle.

    There's a line crossed into romantic flirting, mostly it means the teasing contains compliments about the person's physical appearance or quirky habits that I genuinely find fascinating enough to notice and make part of the conversation. When romantically interested, the intensity of the flirting is just a lot higher. There will be no mixed signals. With friends, it's more innocent, picking on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobe View Post
    How do you ENFP's show that you are really interested in someone? (not in a flirty way)
    You mean making goo-goo eyes at you and insisting on following you around and noticing your every quirk in a slightly creepy but mostly endearing way isn't enough of a signal?




    I'm gonna say yes. "Playing" with people (both with and without the negative connotation) is entertaining to EPs.
    No, I don't enjoy playing with people if they're not enjoying it as well. It's got to be a give and take and the slightest bit of discomfort on their end will make me turn it off. For a type that is said to be in tune with what other people are feeling/their motivations, I think we would find it particularly abhorrent to play with a person's emotions if there is no romantic connection implied and the person may be vulnerable to making more of it than we are willing to offer. This is not attractive at all.

    Sometimes there is just miscommunication because of the intensity we ENFPs have in common. We do give people we enjoy our complete attention. This may also be someone we've just met but are interested in getting to know them. This includes making sustained eye contact and listening intently to what they're saying. We find people fascinating but this does not imply a romantic connection.

  10. #40
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    i have to agree. i find the flirtatiousness of my new (still not firmed up ) enfp friend to be confusing and misleading. in the beginning her forthrightness at wanting to 'hang out' with me didn't get much rise or response out of me. i am a busy introvert.
    Aphrodite, your friend's behavior is way past the flirting realm. It is manipulative and would be confusing to anyone. Flirting, for most of us, would imply a generally open, interested, warm approach to the world we live in. We are fascinated by people and love showing it in the way we know best. Your friend seems to have misused that way of being in an unethical manner. The problem seems to be more about questionable ethics and less about the general way of being.

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