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  1. #251
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    A spinoff on my INTJ/ENFP thread update. I came across an ENFP's blog and he had a post on flirting.

    How many of you ENFP's can relate to this ENFP's words and patterns of flirtation:

    :cringworthy description:
    This makes me cringe and want to distance myself from ENFPs who say this is TYPICAL ENFP behavior.

    I can always sense when people flirt for that personal sense of validation and it pisses me off when -

    1) It is a poorly disguised cry for attention in which case I find it distasteful
    2) They insult my intelligence by thinking I can't tell what they are doing
    3) I am not feeling like a whore who hands out ego strokes for the flash of a cheap smile. You gotta buy me dinner first, at least

    Sometimes the harder people try to flirt with me, the more I ignore them and you can see them ratcheting up 'the charm'.

    Having said all that, sometimes I will play along as part of the social contract if

    1) The attention whoring flirt is exceptionally smooth
    2) " is exceptionally attractive
    3) We have chemistry and it's fun to play around like this, knowing it is playing around and nothing more

    I understand there is a fine line sometimes between flirting and socializing, but it is very rare that you will mistake me for openly flirting with you unless I actually am. And I will RARELY openly flirt except for in certain 'green light all go' situations such as a club or bar where its a hotbed of singles' activity.

    There is something intensely distasteful to me that people would use sex/sexuality/promise of sex/romance etc. as a lure for attention. People who try to seem intelligent and turn into grammar nazis or some other kind of contrarian know it all pisses me off, but it's such an OBVIOUS shtick I guess it's easier to wave away. I think partly what bothers me is that flirting is often very lazy. Also, there is certainly a kind of flirting that is basically smugness - i.e. "I am so hot/attractive that obviously you must want me, because if you haven't noticed, I'm much hotter than you and you should consider yourself lucky that I'm talking to you". Maybe I got screwed up in the head somewhere growing up, because that is exactly how I interpret a bulk of flirting by strangers, especially people who are trying to sell you something more or less.

    Having said all that, even if you do it poorly, if you are trying to be charming (or, as some would say, they just "are" charming ) or entertaining or witty or flirty, go for it. Go for the gusto if that's how you do. But, please try to be GOOD at it, otherwise you get the polite ENFP pokerface or my best impression of a bored INTP (and it ain't pretty).

    Also, I distinguish the kind of flirting and intent described in the thread with flirting in general and especially with joshing around with friends or people you have basically given permission to play around with you. I dunno, people's definition of 'flirting' is so wide, sometimes it includes what I consider innocuous or good-natured and platonic playing. So I'm addressing a very narrow definition of chronic flirting (?) as described in the the OP.

    Wait - I just realized --

    To sum it up, being an SO primary I am VERY aware of power plays and social dynamics. When people very baldly flirt with me for an ego stroke or to coerce me into doing something, I honestly do feel insulted and almost like my social self is being pawed inappropriatedly by an overly eager puppy. My instinctual response is 'Get the fuck away from me'. But, I'm way too socially aware and polite to say this so I do the next best thing, which is the robot stare.

    BTW, if this is the second or third time I've posted in this thread, disregard everything except for this latest post :P
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  2. #252
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I'd start by 'flirting' with you. It's one of the easiest ways to create a connection between two people and it's really enjoyable. From there on, if we click, I'll be more curious about you and come back to you often and amp up the games. This *still* doesn't mean I'm interested in you romantically. It means you as a person intrigue me and I enjoy spending time with you. Also, I'm gathering info on you: your values, your povs in life, how you respond to stuff, etc.

    If you..well I guess you could say, pass the test, you go to the next level. I have people who stay at these 'levels', which I like, who's company I enjoy, but there is nothing deeper because we have no common ground or whatever.

    Once there's some intensity, once it's clear there's something deeper there that we connect over, I'll spend more one on one time with you, getting into more serious conversations. You'll notice the drop in flirty remarks and sheer banter. I'll still do it, to break up the convo a bit, but this is intended for me to verify all the data I've collected and to get to know you for real. At this point, you're becoming a friend. And, if this process goes well, and it continues on, you're likely to become a close friend, unless I discover something that indicates I cannot trust you with who I am.

    At some point, I have a click happening, you'll say something that indicates to me that I can trust you fully. And I'll relax. I'll still tease you but less again, the serious probing and questionning will also slow down and I'll just seek you out to be in your presence. And I'll be ok with just being around you without talking. I also might become more physical as I trust you to come close.


    Now here's the important detail: this can happen with a trusted platonic friend. However, if you notice that we have some serious chemistry and heat going on between us, I'm definitely into you by the end of that process, for a serious relationship (provided I'm single).

    The other stages (from the moment the banter actually causes heat and chemistry) could potentially lead to one night stands or fuckbuddies, if I were to do those things.
    What is the time span we are talking about here?

  3. #253
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calb View Post
    What is the time span we are talking about here?


    When the click happens. It doesn't adhere to a time schedule. It just happens. It's that moment that makes two people want to kiss each other, that moment when you let down all your walls and just sigh in relief that you've found someone you can just be yourself with.

    And no, I cannot map it out for you. This is something you'll recognise when it happens. Think of it like an emotional orgasm - and if you've never had one before, nobody can really describe what it's like - you just have to experience it. Similarly, if you have to ask if you've had one, the answer is probably 'no'.
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  4. #254
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Them sluts. :thumbsdown:
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  5. #255
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post


    When the click happens. It doesn't adhere to a time schedule. It just happens. It's that moment that makes two people want to kiss each other, that moment when you let down all your walls and just sigh in relief that you've found someone you can just be yourself with.

    And no, I cannot map it out for you. This is something you'll recognise when it happens. Think of it like an emotional orgasm - and if you've never had one before, nobody can really describe what it's like - you just have to experience it. Similarly, if you have to ask if you've had one, the answer is probably 'no'.
    Well... so you are saying this could be completely organic if it happens over one day?

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by calb View Post
    Well... so you are saying this could be completely organic if it happens over one day hour?
    FYP.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
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    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  7. #257
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calb View Post
    Well... so you are saying this could be completely organic if it happens over one day?
    Sure - though if that happened to me, now that I'm older, I'd probably hold off. I *know* that I cannot have done all the homework I need to do on the guy in one day. But that kind of click is to me the equivalent of an emotional one-night stand. It can be epic, amazing, intense and intimate in every sense, but there is no way you *know* enough about that person - even if you spent 12+ hours talking - to actually decide on them. You've seen a snapshot at that point and that kind of click is no guarantee it means you're compatible. There's just bags of potential at that point and i've gotten ahead of myself and felt weird and awkward after we came down from our high coz we went...well, too fast. There is a reason that courting takes time and while you can certainly skip a few steps, skipping them all at once tends to be a bad idea if you're aiming for a long-term, stable relationship.
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  8. #258
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Sure - though if that happened to me, now that I'm older, I'd probably hold off. I *know* that I cannot have done all the homework I need to do on the guy in one day. But that kind of click is to me the equivalent of an emotional one-night stand. It can be epic, amazing, intense and intimate in every sense, but there is no way you *know* enough about that person - even if you spent 12+ hours talking - to actually decide on them. You've seen a snapshot at that point and that kind of click is no guarantee it means you're compatible. There's just bags of potential at that point and i've gotten ahead of myself and felt weird and awkward after we came down from our high coz we went...well, too fast. There is a reason that courting takes time and while you can certainly skip a few steps, skipping them all at once tends to be a bad idea if you're aiming for a long-term, stable relationship.
    Is that a form of insecurities kicking in, or the ENFP displaying aloofness?

  9. #259
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calb View Post
    Is that a form of insecurities kicking in, or the ENFP displaying aloofness?
    Neither.

    It's a realisation of 'oh wait...I actually told this person all my secrets and I don't even *know* them that well.'

    However much progress you made in getting to know them that night, you *still* took a really big risk and went way too fast. This stuff needs to be balanced out with doing shit together, observing one another in action, letting things sit a bit and reflect on how it's going, and yes, actual anticipation in order to do the work properly.

    It has nothing to do with insecurities and everything with putting in the work that both of you deserve in order to not get ahead of yourselves. Not doing so can lead to assumptions, projections and standing on that ledge with your heart in your hands alone because you didn't take the time to actually investigate and learn how the other person loves, what they actually need in a relationship and if the things that mean so much to you actually mean the same to them. It basically means you're not dancing together and are in sync with each other, but delude yourself into think you are - until one of you or both of you fall hard. And yes, that can be quite painful and even detrimental.

    Iow, do the work, already. I know, I'm a nag. But excellence isn't only part of life in the business world. Skill and mastery isn't just something we use in our professional lives and learning is just as essential in love. Love is magical, for sure, but it's still of this world and therefore subject to the rules of reality.
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  10. #260
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Neither.

    It's a realisation of 'oh wait...I actually told this person all my secrets and I don't even *know* them that well.'

    However much progress you made in getting to know them that night, you *still* took a really big risk and went way too fast. This stuff needs to be balanced out with doing shit together, observing one another in action, letting things sit a bit and reflect on how it's going, and yes, actual anticipation in order to do the work properly.

    It has nothing to do with insecurities and everything with putting in the work that both of you deserve in order to not get ahead of yourselves. Not doing so can lead to assumptions, projections and standing on that ledge with your heart in your hands alone because you didn't take the time to actually investigate and learn how the other person loves, what they actually need in a relationship and if the things that mean so much to you actually mean the same to them. It basically means you're not dancing together and are in sync with each other, but delude yourself into think you are - until one of you or both of you fall hard. And yes, that can be quite painful and even detrimental.

    Iow, do the work, already. I know, I'm a nag. But excellence isn't only part of life in the business world. Skill and mastery isn't just something we use in our professional lives and learning is just as essential in love. Love is magical, for sure, but it's still of this world and therefore subject to the rules of reality.
    Why are you now saying I took a big risk, when moments ago you were fine to it being organic? The previous discussion was about the ENFP. So it would be the ENFP that took a big risk, unless I understand the context wrong here.

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