[INFP] INFPs: Being used

[metaphours]

I've heard this before. I really think that it's feeling selfless but not actually being selfless. People will use others, but it's not the overwhelming thing that people do. Maybe people feel your selfless acts and realize it's not about them, it's more about you. I'm having a hard time articulating this.

I'm having a hard time understanding what you're actually talking about...

It's always good to keep a realistic view about people. If I'm going to help them, I ask myself "what will I get out of this? Will they reciprocate?" If it involves money I'll ask myself "will I realistically get paid back?" etc.

That's so true. Sometimes I feel as if I want to do that, but then I always second guess myself. I don't know why. I think it might be because I feel like if I were in a situation where I needed help, advice, etc., I would want someone to help me out; So I just feel like I'm doing unto others as I would have them do unto me, I suppose.

When they are using me for something that isn't a material thing... Well I pick up on it and blow them off. You do the whole "doorslam" thing. I'd suggest you getting good at it.

rofl, what do you mean by "doorslam" though?

Perhaps they did care for you, a symbiotic relationship was created, but they just moved on.

Here is something to think about. There are many ways that bonds between people can be formed. A mutual struggle is one such way. The problem is that once one or both people are in a better place, that force that drew them together no longer exists.

So unless they've forged something deeper by that time, *poof*. The bonding materials disappear, and you guys go your separate ways. It doesn't mean that the bond was any less real, though.

Of course, there are other explanations - such as the fact that if you are a giver you will often attract takers.

Hmm, I guess this makes sense, but it's still frustrating how people feel like they can just abandon you after all that you've been through - and I mean like months of supposed "friendship."

 

[BlackCat]

That's so true. Sometimes I feel as if I want to do that, but then I always second guess myself. I don't know why. I think it might be because I feel like if I were in a situation where I needed help, advice, etc., I would want someone to help me out; So I just feel like I'm doing unto others as I would have them do unto me, I suppose.

Yeah, I agree with this. But you need to put a realistic limit on what you do. REAL people besides you do this, they won't realistically give their fortune to a homeless guy, they'll give him some change or a dollar. You know what I mean. Just be reasonable about it.

rofl, what do you mean by "doorslam" though?

The INFP doorslam is basically when you totally shut someone out of your life, never think of them again (or try not to is usually how it works, then later you don't), etc.

 

[metaphours]

Yeah, I agree with this. But you need to put a realistic limit on what you do. REAL people besides you do this, they won't realistically give their fortune to a homeless guy, they'll give him some change or a dollar. You know what I mean. Just be reasonable about it.

You've got a point

The INFP doorslam is basically when you totally shut someone out of your life, never think of them again (or try not to is usually how it works, then later you don't), etc.

Oh yes... I've done this before

 

[Udog]

I've heard this before. I really think that it's feeling selfless but not actually being selfless. People will use others, but it's not the overwhelming thing that people do. Maybe people feel your selfless acts and realize it's not about them, it's more about you. I'm having a hard time articulating this.

I'm having a hard time understanding what you're actually talking about...

That's one possibility that I was trying to tiptoe about, since I'm not sure if I'm doing a favor by bringing it up.

The idea is that your selfless acts aren't so selfless, afterall. You tried to buy their friendship by being nice, and they eventually figured out that your generosity came with strings attached. Once they sensed that, they bolted.

 

[metaphours]

That's one possibility that I was trying to tiptoe about, since I'm not sure if I'm doing a favor by bringing it up.

The idea is that your selfless acts aren't so selfless, afterall. You tried to buy their friendship by being nice, and they eventually figured out that your generosity came with strings attached. Once they sensed that, they bolted.

Ehh, I disagree. I don't buy people's friendship because first of all I don't typically walk up to people and become friends with them. It's the other way around. So they're the ones who fold into the pseudo-friendship to begin with.

 

[Udog]

Ehh, I disagree. I don't buy people's friendship desire to have friends that I connect with because first of all I don't typically walk up to people and become friends with them. It's the other way around. So they're the ones who fold into the pseudo-friendship to begin with.

Hmm... so I guess the above is true as well. Anyway, fair enough. I will relent. No matter how you cut it it's a terrible feeling to find out that someone you had thought you connected with was just using you. You have my sympathy, even if I mix it with a bit of bluntness.

I know an NT dies everytime the word is said, but Blackcat's advice on establishing boundaries is good. Know how far you will go with someone without you needing them to show appreciation, communicate it, and stand by it. That will protect you in the future.

 

[metaphours]

Hmm... so I guess the above is true as well. Anyway, fair enough. I will relent. No matter how you cut it it's a terrible feeling to find out that someone you had thought you connected with was just using you. You have my sympathy, even if I mix it with a bit of bluntness.

I know an NT dies everytime the word is said, but Blackcat's advice on establishing boundaries is good. Know how far you will go with someone without you needing them to show appreciation, communicate it, and stand by it. That will protect you in the future.

You have a great point.
Thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it guys

 

[cafe]

It's something I struggle with as well. I have one IRL friend (you know who you are) besides my husband that feels like a friendship of equals and not just someone who only calls me when they need something.

I know there are several reasons for this. One reason is probably abandonment issues: I feel more secure being the needed instead of the needy. Another reason is my introversion: I don't put a lot of effort into seeking people out or into maintaining relationships. There's also insecurity: if I really let someone get to know me they will stop liking me.

OTOH, I'm very loyal, fairly compassionate, and have issues with guilt, so I let things go farther than they should once someone has taken the time to cultivate a friendship with me.

The Boundaries Book helped some. I mean, I'm somewhat more likely to know when I'm letting someone take advantage of me than I used to be, but I still have a long way to go. I've had Codependent No More recommended to me by more than one person, but I haven't read it yet. I'm kind of afraid to look.

 

[CzeCze]

I think as INFPs, we're just so willing to give our all, you know? Like if someone needs help, we're one of the few people to actually give them it. And not just help, it's help from the heart, help that matters because we actually care about that person, no matter if we just met, or if we've been friends forever.

So did you think you were becoming friends with them for the long run (developing a relationship) or did you see yourself 'being a friend'?

Sometimes people are in need and they are motivated by making themselves feel better. It's completely situational and opportunistic.

As long as you can clearly see that before extending yourself, things might be okay. But, even if you understand that, I think it can be hard for XNFPs to set good boundaries and realistic expectations.

I see INFPs getting railroaded all the time, and I've been there myself. After a point, I took the "locus of control" back to myself. Just speaking for myself, instead of blaming others for being selfish, deceitful, childish, etc. - I put the responsibility squarely on myself for letting it happen.

The thing us, I think a lot of, if not all of the time, you know when you are getting taken advantage of but you allow it to happen for...X, Y, Z reasons?

Once you figure out what those X, Y, Z reasons are and recognize the patterns, you can prevent it from happening again.

It doesn't hurt to value your own time and energy more and to be more selective. If someone is hurting and you turn them away, it's not the end of the world. They will find something or someone else. In fact, you may be giving them a valuable lesson.

There will always be people in need in the world, one of these days, you will be that person - and if you keep going like this, you'll be in need SPECIFICALLY because of all the people you feel used you.

Leave something for yourself.

You will find that there are quality people who want quality relationships with you but all this attention you give to the needy gets in the way.

 

[metaphours]

So did you think you were becoming friends with them for the long run (developing a relationship) or did you see yourself 'being a friend'?

I typically tend to think we're going to be developing a relationship when it comes to becoming friends with people.

Sometimes people are in need and they are motivated by making themselves feel better. It's completely situational and opportunistic.

Especially when the person in question is a histrionic bitch.

As long as you can clearly see that before extending yourself, things might be okay. But, even if you understand that, I think it can be hard for XNFPs to set good boundaries and realistic expectations.

It's hard because whenever someone extends themselves to me or vice versa and we begin a friendship, I get so excited and don't even fathom the notion that they could be using me or something like that.

I see INFPs getting railroaded all the time, and I've been there myself. After a point, I took the "locus of control" back to myself. Just speaking for myself, instead of blaming others for being selfish, deceitful, childish, etc. - I put the responsibility squarely on myself for letting it happen.

Yes, that's what I'm doing now, blaming myself for ever becoming friends with such selfish parasites like the one's I've mentioned.

The thing us, I think a lot of, if not all of the time, you know when you are getting taken advantage of but you allow it to happen for...X, Y, Z reasons?

When you're an INFP, you're mostly likely blissfully aware of the fact that someone could be using you, because your so delighted that you're becoming so close to someone. That's how I feel atleast.

It doesn't hurt to value your own time and energy more and to be more selective. If someone is hurting and you turn them away, it's not the end of the world. They will find something or someone else. In fact, you may be giving them a valuable lesson.

I'm already quite selective with who I become close with. Which is in turn why when somebody does begin getting closer to me I get EXTREMELY excited and blinded by the fact that I can actually get along with someone.

There will always be people in need in the world, one of these days, you will be that person - and if you keep going like this, you'll be in need SPECIFICALLY because of all the people you feel used you.

Leave something for yourself.

You will find that there are quality people who want quality relationships with you but all this attention you give to the needy gets in the way.

Hmmm, I see. So I should stop giving people the attention they want? That actually makes sense.

 

[musicheck]

I'm not sure if I'm intruding on this thread given I'm not an INFP or even an NF, but I have a few questions.

I have an INFP friend who I often feel like is the easiest person to talk to when everything seems awful, yet we don't actually hang out that often. What sorts of behavior on my part would cause an INFP to feel used like this? I still definitely talk to her otherwise and am happy to listen to her (although of course I'm not really capable of the seemingly unconditional empathy an INFP can express), but I'm curious if this might still be an issue.

Also, I will say that given how INFP's want to be valued as a good friend, there may be a tendency to feel like you're sacrificing for people when they don't really need your help. The need to be a martyr isn't selfless, and its definitely a tough balancing act to know how much of "helping" is actually helping versus doing it for yourself. Comparing this reaction in healthy NF's (whose friendship is downright priceless) to less healthy ones (who feel self absorbed in this context sometimes), I can see how tough it is to know if you really do have good intentions.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I've done that plenty of times - been there for someone when they are down, and had them disappear on me the second they were back on their feet.

This is a reoccurring theme in my friendships. I'm going to start charging people for these therapy sessions

I'm not sure if I'm intruding on this thread given I'm not an INFP or even an NF, but I have a few questions.

I have an INFP friend who I often feel like is the easiest person to talk to when everything seems awful, yet we don't actually hang out that often. What sorts of behavior on my part would cause an INFP to feel used like this? I still definitely talk to her otherwise and am happy to listen to her (although of course I'm not really capable of the seemingly unconditional empathy an INFP can express), but I'm curious if this might still be an issue.

Also, I will say that given how INFP's want to be valued as a good friend, there may be a tendency to feel like you're sacrificing for people when they don't really need your help. The need to be a martyr isn't selfless, and its definitely a tough balancing act to know how much of "helping" is actually helping versus doing it for yourself. Comparing this reaction in healthy NF's (whose friendship is downright priceless) to less healthy ones (who feel self absorbed in this context sometimes), I can see how tough it is to know if you really do have good intentions.

Don't only call an INFP when you are feeling down or have news to share. Call him/her just to see how he/she is doing. Try emailing...they may contact you more regularly that way.

If they tell you about something they did, mention how you'd love to go along next time; they may actually invite you somewhere (gasp! ). If they invite you, then GO. If you cannot, then immediately offer an alternative. If you turn it down, they may never bother to ask you to hang out again. If an INFP says "we should hang out sometime", then press for concrete plans. We can suck at concrete plans, so things can get stuck in the "someday" zone.

Don't just be "happy to listen", but actually make it clear that you are, ask questions to draw the INFP out, and give the INFP time to collect his/her thoughts and respond.

I had a friend who would call me on the phone and go on and on about her personal drama for TWO HOURS. I'd give her what she was seeking: an ear to listen, some gentle advice, and general comfort. I was genuinely interested in her, so that's not what bugged me. What bugged me was, she'd ask how I was doing and I'd say, "well, I'm okay". Then she'd jump back to her life.... Then later she'd complain how I never "opened up to her.

I had another friend who would tell me all about his depression and suicidal thoughts, and I would listen to it all, even when some of it was quite disturbing. When I was down and felt the need for a friend to listen, he'd cut me off, change the subject, and get off the phone ASAP.

Not saying you do any of this, but it's good to take a step back and see if you've really been there for your friend and made them aware that you are there, and actually allowed them to open up to you.

 

[musicheck]

From reading your response, OrangeAppled, I think what I'm doing isn't so bad. We talk regularly (usually on AIM). Only twice since I've ever known her have I brought up my emotions without her asking, and I generally only talk about myself when she asks. We talk about her like maybe 70% of the time, but still, I can come across as pretty unsympathetic. Given that things rarely change (she just kind of floats along often), I have trouble biting my lip and being as kind as would be ideal.

I had another friend who would tell me all about his depression and suicidal thoughts, and I would listen to it all, even when some of it was quite disturbing. When I was down and felt the need for a friend to listen, he'd cut me off, change the subject, and get off the phone ASAP.

Not saying you do any of this, but it's good to take a step back and see if you've really been there for your friend and made them aware that you are there, and actually allowed them to open up to you.

She has plenty of friends like this. (The worst example I can think of was a guy who hooked up with her for a couple weeks and then said he dumped her because he didn't realize he wouldn't like her when she was happy.) I often tell her to cut the parasites out of her life, but again, its hard to say that in an uncritical way. She agrees but claims she is incapable of taking advice.

Also, I only feel like I can really relate to her emphatically when I'm feeling kind of down myself. Its not that I don't care otherwise, but I only do so in a more detached and analytic way. What's the best way to treat someone who repeatedly gets stuck in the pattern discussed in this thread? While I do think I'm overall good to her, there's a part of me that disparages my treatment of her as just using her as a way to help me feel my own pain and then looking down on her otherwise.

(Again, if people feel I'm intruding on this topic with my own personal stuff, do let me know if this is out of line and self-absorbed. I'm still a but unsure of the social norms on how segregated NF/NT/SP/SJ forums are.)

 

[cafe]

The thing that makes me feel used is what I call 'foul weather friending.' If the other person has a problem or something going on I am supposed to listen. If I have something going on, they have to go. If something bad is going on, they call me. If something fun is going on, they call someone else. OTOH, sometimes after hearing and helping with the bad stuff, I don't feel so much like socializing anyway.

 

[Udog]

This is a reoccurring theme in my friendships. I'm going to start charging people for these therapy sessions

Hah! I actually made that joke once when I had made it clear that I didn't think I was a good person to talk to about a particular issue, and she continued anyway. Her response, paraphrased: "Well, that would be the end of the friendship then."

Needless to say, the friendship was indeed over shortly after that.

 

[CzeCze]

Udog, yikes.

And Musicheck, I'm not the OP but I for one am very glad you are giving your input in this thread! I think it is *very* important and illuminating for NF/INFPs to hear the honest truth from non 'same types' to really see how other people are seeing/thinking about them.

You can't really argue or deny the truth and sometimes people need to hear things unadorned, without sugar coating (but also without the added bite of judgement or scorn) - to really have things sink in.

Metaphours - I hear what you are saying about being selective already - but honestly I think maybe that is part of the problem? You think you are being selective but perhaps you are being overly guarded? If you have set it up and pre-selct so you can only have a very people you allow yourself to befriend or get close to, than that sets up a blown up sense of importance and preciousness to that person and relationship.

Not saying that you should have as many random friends as possible to 'spread your bet' - but I have seen exactly this tendency in other INXPs who have gotten used. You think you're protecting yourself and reserving your time and energy for 'quality people' by limiting yourself (or being 'selective') but actually, you are isolating yourself and creating a heightened sense of urgency in making friends and helping to create a false sense intimacy with people.

The fact that someone needs you or needs something that you provide does not mean that you click or that you are truly compatible or that you should be friends.

And/Or someone may be a good person and someone that you could make a real connection with and build a real solid friendship with BUT 1)they aren't in a space to do that (they are in crisis mode, depressed, etc.) and 2)you aren't building the proper framework with checks and balances to create a healthy long lasting relationship.

Especially with people 'in need' - you need to put down some clear guidelines and not be afraid to check people for bad behavior. Once people learn how they need to respect you and your time and what your expectations are, they will either learn to follow those guidelines or else they will walk or else you will end the progress of your relationship and move on.

 

[heart]

I'm not sure if I'm intruding on this thread given I'm not an INFP or even an NF, but I have a few questions.

I have an INFP friend who I often feel like is the easiest person to talk to when everything seems awful, yet we don't actually hang out that often. What sorts of behavior on my part would cause an INFP to feel used like this? I still definitely talk to her otherwise and am happy to listen to her (although of course I'm not really capable of the seemingly unconditional empathy an INFP can express), but I'm curious if this might still be an issue.

I think INFP have a lot of friendships with Ts like this. It's probably not a big deal as long as you express appreciation for what she gives you when you get it. I am also not so sure that is what the OP was talking about. It seemed he was more talking about actual relationships, like romance. I could be wrong however...

 

[Scott N Denver]

Hmmmm, fwiw, many people have come to me for advice or help "sorting things out." I find that I tend to be pretty practical with my comments, and won't allow "theatrics" for very long. I'll listen, ask questions, rephrase what people are saying, and then make "suggestions" with various levels of "mandatoryness" So people who actually want *help* with something get someone who to hear them out and then practical considerations to consider and/or implement.

People who "just want to whine" get some of my time, and then I give suggestions which they ignore or blow off, and then I tell them "well, there's nothing more I can do for you"

Examples
Case 1: "My boyfriend is SO mean! I ask him for things and he doesn't listen. I TELL him things and he still doesn't listen. This makes me SO mad." Me: "Well, I'm sorry to hear that, its always frustrating when people don't listen to you, especially when they are you SO. Have you tried pointing out to him that your asking him for help and then also asked him why he doesn't then help you out? Sometimes people interpret words in different ways, or respond to moods instead of words. Have you tried politely asking him to help you with something and explaining why you need the help and how much it would mean to you?"

Case 2: "Boo hoo hoo, life is SO horrible!!! MY girlfriend just broke up with me and I feel like my life will never go on. I can't sleep at night, I can't concentrate in class, it CONSUMES me. My life will never be the same!!! I am *devastated*. But I do still manage to find time to play Magic cards for 4 hours/day, can't say no to that now can I? My life is OVER!" Me: Well, I'm very sorry to hear about your breakup. That's always tough for people. It sounds like you've found at least some time to not focus on it though, that 4 hrs/day of magic cards. Perhaps you can carve out some tie to go jogging or lift weights or engage in some other physical activity? Exercise is one of the best ways to get your mind off of something. Plus its just good for you and will help you sleep better. Them: "You don't understand. I am SO devastated! My life is over, forever, period. How can I even live anymore. Boo hoo hoo. Feel my pain and cry with me scott, feel my pain and cry with me. I NEED you to cry with me. It's been three weeks now but, HEY Scott your not crying!!! Boo hoo hoo I am SO devastated..." Me: Okay, I said I'm sorry for your loss, I listened to you intently, I suggested exercising which you shot down, there's juts nothing more I can do here.



Well, something like that anyways. Is my military T "identify the problem, analyze the problem, fix the problem" background showing through???

 

[CzeCze]

You are an INFP who was in the military? There was another INFP member here who was not only in the military, he was in the marines and also served during the Vietnam War. How's that for breaking type stereotype??

 

[OrangeAppled]

Well, something like that anyways. Is my military T "identify the problem, analyze the problem, fix the problem" background showing through???

This just kind of sounds like a man approach

I try my best to never invalidate a person's feelings, even if their feeling is a bit unwarranted. I remind them of their positive qualities that equip them to deal with the issue. If I give advice, I'll acknowledge it can be easier said than done. Essentially, fixing the problem just cannot be done in a condescending way, as if it's so easy and they are dense for missing the solution. That's never effective; the person simply becomes defensive and more hurt, which justifies any over-reacting, and then they disregard all of your advice.

I will admit that the friends who come crying do often listen to my input, and I get a sense of satisfaction from being useful, even if I feel like I get blown off.