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  1. #1
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    Default negotiation skills

    *sigh*
    I've done it again... and now I'm feeling crap - again.
    just got off the phone after being talked down in price for my skills/service.
    It happens every time.
    I quote them a price... they ask for better.
    straight away I fold and give them a cheap price that I'm not happy with but I know they'll go for.
    They go away more than happy, I'm sitting here feeling like shit and don't even want to do the job now.
    Of course, after the phone is hung up and I can digest it all, I have a thousand comebacks to counteract their argument.
    Why didn't they send me an email instead of calling me???
    Why didn't I stick to my price??
    why do I feel like crap???
    Is this typical of my type, or is it just me as an individual not valuing myself?

  2. #2
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    I feel somewhat the same, that I make bad deals. I think my nego skills are fine, but I have often prepared too little to establish the best case for myself.

  3. #3
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    The IxxP thing does not help much with sticking to a negotiating price. We want to flex, to make things work and not miss out on the opportunity... and then end up afterwards feeling like crap.

    One recourse to bump your original price a bit, so when you flex and drop it, they feel like they're getting a deal and you still get the money you need to cover costs.

    But in a negotiation, I feel like the customer has the advantage, since they have the money and you want it and others want it as well. So they force you to take the "first risk" by sticking to a price even if they threaten to walk; their risk is actually walking and losing out on your services... but only after you've stuck to your guns and committed yourself.

    Some of it is just deciding to yourself what you are willing to live with and what you are not, and then not castigating yourself afterwards for sticking to your values.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #4

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    Donald Trump views negotiation as a game.

    The initial stages are used to feel people out and often has a tendency to have ridiculous offers and counter offers.

    Make ridiculous offers while varying things like price, time, quality, particular features, style of pay, etc. to feel out what is actually valuable to the other party, then make a "game ending" (my term, but I think it capture Trump's intent) ridiculous offer that makes use of what the other party values.

    At this point, real negotiation can begin.

    That's how I envision I should do it ideally, but in practice (there is reason I don't do real life negotiation, and bring in someone who I know is better, usually one of my parents or a friend) I usually give in during the "ridiculous" phase.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #5
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    This is you as an individual not valuing yourself and your work, and it’s somewhat typical of our type.

    The important thing to remember is that you can still negotiate without losing the customer. The customer should expect some bartering, so they’re not going to be surprised when you supersede their suggestion for a price with a suggestion of your own.

    I think it is related to how much you value yourself. You are worthy of whatever bounty you reap for your services, and worthy of whatever you want. You just are.

    I’m just going to throw a few suggestions out there. Like any bit of advice, take what you like and leave the rest behind. These are just a few things I’ve found work well for me.

    It helps me to feel valuable by imagining there’s someone inside of me who thinks I’m awesome even if I don’t. Kind of like saying to myself, “There’s a part of me that will always think I’m awesome, even if I don’t feel that way.” It's a little boost of self-worth and positive self-esteem. It frees me from thinking about WHY I’m awesome – I just am, period, even if I suck at work, or nobody likes me, or I wreck my car or lose a friend, or what have you.

    Another thing that might help is thinking of yourself as worthy of whatever you want: love, understanding, attention, anything at all. And you don’t have to make friends or have everyone like you, understand you or agree with you to be happy. You can be happy with or without anybody on your side, because you’re on your own side. Or that inner part of you that wants you to be happy is, anyway.

    Scenario: A customer calls up and they suggest a much lower price than the starting price. You suggest a price a little bit lower than the starting price, and they say they can’t meet it. You go a little lower. They still can’t meet it. You ask, “What price range can you afford?” You consider their response and say, “Well, the lowest I can afford today is such-and-such. It’s higher than your range. Can you do it?” And go as low as you're willing, but don't sacrifice yourself to the sword. In a negotiation between two people, compromises will be made, but only if both people are compromising. If only one person is compromising, it's nothing more than sacrifice. The worst case scenario is that you go so low you feel bad about it. If they can't pay the minimum for your services, they can't have your services. It's a waste of your time. Decide what the minimum amount of money is that you'll accept for a particular skill or service and try never to go that low. Always aim higher. If you MUST go that low, do, but don't go any lower.

    Be your own person, fight for what you need and desire, and don’t feel bad about it. You’re worthy. You’re cool. And you want what you want. And there's nothing wrong with that.

    P.S. I like your name.

  6. #6
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    thanks guys.
    yes mempy, I am cool.

    Upon reflection, it was a phone call out of the blue wanting a price on the spot.
    Decisions on the spot always freak me out if I'm not prepared. I just can't think straight.
    My usual response is "I'll get back to you".
    I need time to make decisions and they usually come to me after playing out every scenario. Thereby a decision is usually made around 3.30am when I sit bolt upright with a conclusion I'm happy with, along with comebacks for every argument etc.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    thanks guys.
    yes mempy, I am cool.

    Upon reflection, it was a phone call out of the blue wanting a price on the spot.
    Decisions on the spot always freak me out if I'm not prepared. I just can't think straight.My usual response is "I'll get back to you".
    I need time to make decisions and they usually come to me after playing out every scenario. Thereby a decision is usually made around 3.30am when I sit bolt upright with a conclusion I'm happy with, along with comebacks for every argument etc.
    Oh yes, same here, I need time to mull it over. Forcing me to make a decision on the spot is unbelievably stressful.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    ...My usual response is "I'll get back to you". ...
    Sorry for saying something irrelevant (as usually), but for a long time I was answering "I 'll get back at you", until somebody explained me what this really means...
    I am horribly bad in negotiating myself. Thankfully, I don't have to do it usually (at least not in person)

  9. #9
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    *sigh*
    I've done it again... and now I'm feeling crap - again.
    just got off the phone after being talked down in price for my skills/service.
    It happens every time.
    I quote them a price... they ask for better.
    straight away I fold and give them a cheap price that I'm not happy with but I know they'll go for.
    They go away more than happy, I'm sitting here feeling like shit and don't even want to do the job now.
    Of course, after the phone is hung up and I can digest it all, I have a thousand comebacks to counteract their argument.
    Why didn't they send me an email instead of calling me???
    Why didn't I stick to my price??
    why do I feel like crap???
    Is this typical of my type, or is it just me as an individual not valuing myself?
    My sister is an INFP and she occasionally makes comments that remind me of what you are describing.
    She has resigned herself to the "fact" that she is going to allow people to take advantage of her, all her life.
    I know she would empathize with how you feel.
    I certainly understand.

    I think some of it might be "self-esteem", but more than likely it's because INFPs are just so darn nice and would give you the shirt off their back.

    If it really matters to you, and you really want to stick to your guns, I recommend you scout out how other people do it, and copy what feels comfortable for you. Perhaps all you need is to realize that it's not rude to come back with a counter-offer. If you'd rather not do the job at all now, what good is that?

    How much of a discount did they ask for? (My sister hates it when I ask her to do math.) Is your price too high? Maybe if you came down a tiny bit, people wouldn't feel comfortable asking for a discount?

    I know it's too late for this time, but maybe if you think ahead for the next time, you'll be ready to respond in a way you can better live with.

    Just for the record:
    From Do What You Are:
    (under INFPs Possible Blindspots)
    "it can be hard for them to stand up for an unpopular position"
    "they have a hard time saying no"
    "INFPs need to develop more assertiveness"

    I wish you good success.

  10. #10
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    thanks guys.
    yes mempy, I am cool.

    Upon reflection, it was a phone call out of the blue wanting a price on the spot.
    Decisions on the spot always freak me out if I'm not prepared. I just can't think straight.
    My usual response is "I'll get back to you".
    I need time to make decisions and they usually come to me after playing out every scenario. Thereby a decision is usually made around 3.30am when I sit bolt upright with a conclusion I'm happy with, along with comebacks for every argument etc.
    I need time to think, too.

    I was just wondering, if quoting by the job is so tricky, have you thought about charging by the hour instead?

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