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  1. #51
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Some things about my partner that inspire my passion are:

    His smell - that's probably some genetic pheromone thing that can't be helped

    When he talks about things I'm interested in that he has researched and we discuss them and I learn something - we talk a lot of politics and econ on our evening walks. It feeds my bleeding heart side as well as my nerd fetish. So hot!

    When he shows that steady solidity and dependability that I so admire and that makes me feel secure - he goes to work every day and brings his money home to his family does not complain about it

    When I observe him being his conscientious, ethical self - when I pick him up from work and see how much he goes out of his way to make sure the cargo in the truck is neatly and thoroughly secured even though the other guys don't go to so much trouble I feel like he's over doing it, but at the same time, it's what I love about him

    He is always making me laugh, but that doesn't really inspire passion. I feed and thrive on it, but only notice it if he is sick or something and I become kind of morose and realize it's missing. At the same time, it's so cute when he tells me a joke and is so pleased with himself when I groan because it's so horrible. It's like a little boy putting a toad in my lunch box or something.

    I know some of these things are mundane and kind of 'SJ' but they just make me melt.

    Having someone to admire and and respect and trust who treats me with that same admiration and respect and trust is amazing and humbling.

    As far as narrowing it down to one person -- I don't really have a lot of respect for very many men and I certainly have never met my husband's equal, let alone his better. Why would I want his inferior?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #52
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penda View Post
    What bothers me is that women/girls I felt passionate about in the past still linger with me so much. I think the passion is based a great deal on fantasy, because sometimes I have it for people I don't really know that much about, just enough to kindle the fires. But it sure seems to last a long time. It also can seem so overwhelming that it makes pursuing the object of my desires very difficult, since it makes her seem so out of reach. I haven't felt that way in a couple years, which kind of worries me. I hope I can find a way to balance my passions (assuming I still have them) with a more tangible and practical approach to relationships in the future.
    Time will smother all sparks not kept alive. Its the way things move and are. Its part of who we are. We love again with reckless abandon, without seeing the true end of what might be, over and over again as our cycle repeats. Some of us get lucky and find one person to repeat said cycle with and rest of us take a bit longer to get to our stage of said passion or fufillment.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  3. #53
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    but what makes you passionately love someone? what makes you want one specific person more than anyone and everyone else? do infjs feel this happen for them easily, often, etc?
    well that's the age-old question isn't it? why do we fall in love? why do we fall in love with a certain person?

    i think you cannot find a function to define it because it is so........exponentially complex. from the time we are born we have idiosyncracies about how we relate with ourselves, our parents, or environment, what influences us, what moves us, what drives us, ad infinitum; that makes us who we are. and we are complex, and as infj we are not ignorant of that, and others are complex to us as well. and we can see all the possibilities!

    the irony is that Love is Everywhere, as rainbows alluded to. and yet it is elusive at the same time. if infj could reach outside ourselves and our need to be private and protect our inner selves and embrace others' souls as we are wont to do, we could probably find love easily. but because of so many other factors, and our need to protect ourselves (which incidentally is not dependent on type), and others' need to protect themselves, and our fear of being hurt again, it is hard to bridge that gap, even as we bridge other intimacy gaps with friends and family.

    you embrace a psychological theory of love. i am more biological in my approach. when you find someone you want to be intimate with, either through a check list dating methodology, or through a serendipitous encounter (my personal fav), and the passion starts flowing between the two of you, and pheremones mix, NRE (new relationship energy) happens. this is further fueled by pea (phenylethylalanine), which is a chemical that makes you feel love sick; like you can't eat, sleep, or think about anything but the object d' your amore.

    why we are desirous to begin this process with certain people and not others is one of life's great mysteries. why we have this connection, this energy with some is as wonderful as it is mystical. it is a great gift, but like all great gifts, must be wielded warily, because, as we all know, love can be bring us ecstasy or bring us pain, not to mention delivering pain to others.

    i do not know about lumping this up under type either, like some others mentioned. i am passionate as are many others. i can feel unconditional love for people. i don't think having a hard time falling in love and staying in love is very type dependent. i think it probably has more to do with allowing oneself to be vulnerable and opening oneself up to love. and everyone can have difficulties with this, no matter what type one is. passionate or not passionate. yes, i know infj are the 'most dissatisfied with marital relationships,' but that can be because of other factors, not necessarily be related to love.

    i'm not sure i really addressed your op. but i tried.
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  4. #54
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I know some of these things are mundane and kind of 'SJ' but they just make me melt.

    Having someone to admire and and respect and trust who treats me with that same admiration and respect and trust is amazing and humbling.
    to me this sounds like compassion. deep understanding and awareness of another. this is obviously a huge component in how we as infjs love others. but i find this with many others all the time. rarely does this make me focus on this person exclusively, or want this person more than the rest. i feel a moment of love for them, but it is ephemeral. and it just goes into the stockpile of humanity and its collective subjective experience (why i love humanity, etc).

    As far as narrowing it down to one person -- I don't really have a lot of respect for very many men and I certainly have never met my husband's equal, let alone his better. Why would I want his inferior?
    i meet many-a great women, it seems. or if not many, definitely enough. the idea of inferior is perhaps on the right track for this question, but ultimately i see so much potential and warmth and goodness in many women. judging others as inferior does not resonate with my way of viewing the world and connecting with others. it does when i get judgy and relate only in terms of what i want in the moment, but it is not a story that feels true enough to hang my hat on at night.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbows View Post
    We love again with reckless abandon, without seeing the true end of what might be, over and over again as our cycle repeats.
    this does not sound like Ni to me at all. Ni is the foreseeing function. always one eye on the future. i simply do not relate to this in the least.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    you embrace a psychological theory of love. i am more biological in my approach.
    i do not understand why this is relevant. the body goes through biological changes when interacting with others, quite drastically when sexual response becomes activated. of course this is true. but i don't know why you bring this up, unless you are saying the way to passionately fall in love with someone is just- whoever you sleep with, you'll passionately love. bc biology makes it so.

    there is obviously a fraction of truth to this. the physical changes in the body create various moods. but human beings are interpretative and psychological creatures. with ideas, language, communication, etc. they have many diverse values and priorities, and most of these sexual bonds created fall to puddles in the sheets within minutes, hours, days, or weeks after consummation. there is a heightening but, especially in men (is this true?), there is a refractory period where half the time we cannot even see you, bc you have blended in with the wallpaper (being overly harsh and perhaps hyperbolic).

    i do not know about lumping this up under type either, like some others mentioned. i am passionate as are many others. i can feel unconditional love for people. i don't think having a hard time falling in love and staying in love is very type dependent. i think it probably has more to do with allowing oneself to be vulnerable and opening oneself up to love. and everyone can have difficulties with this, no matter what type one is. passionate or not passionate. yes, i know infj are the 'most dissatisfied with marital relationships,' but that can be because of other factors, not necessarily be related to love.
    i do not mean to suggest that claiming infjness is a catch-all for anything. type, cognitive functions, plays a huge role in organizing a persons own interpretations of themselves, channeling their energies, and directing their attention/focus. to say that there are no patterns that emerge as a result of these, even if they are obviously much more difficult and too complex to grasp within a single stereotype (which is not how i perceive what i do), is pointless to me.




    i do think that, at times, communicating poor ideas and bad thinking is ultimately a negative thing. and some of the threads in which we create a single story that shifts blame for our unhappinesses to specific subjects that are divorced from what we have control over is ultimately a negative process.

    i do not think that infjs need to be the most unhappy in marital situations by any means. god knows i wont be. i've already figured out too much to ever let that happen. i feel better about myself as a result of mb than i ever have, largely bc it has helped me communi9cate better with others and create more fulfilling relationships. i do want to think aloud in this thread bc i have a lot of loose ends i am trying to arrange into a more coherent and multi-faceted picture.

    which is to say, there's no fucking way in hell that an infj falls in love the same way as an estp does. there are some basic biological processes that tie us all together. some basic underlying grammar of love, sex, reproduction, social affection, etc that are rooted in biological processes, social behavior, cultural understandings, etc.

    but we have different balances of thinking and feeling. we have a totally different perceptual system, at opposite ends of the spectrum. we are directed outward and very detail-oriented in the world as a result. our introverted judgment function is an unconscious one (Ti). this grounds us to ourselves and what we think is TRUE for us. clarifies the story that creates some of our sense of purpose, internal stability, calling, direction, etc. whereas Fe is directed outside of ourselves, connecting with others perhaps somewhat discriminantly, but ultimately focused on them (their story, their needs, their information) rather than our own way of relating to them. on how they relate to us and each other, at large. which makes it difficult, i find, to be in touch with my overarching, long-range feelings (/wants).

    this is not an impossible problem. but i do find that it makes for some specific challenges. tho, as stated in the thread, probably not as problematic as just becoming healthier, improving in the ability to let go, to stop foreseeing SO HARD all the time, to be more in the moment, connect with Fe more freely, and allow a sense of conduct to guide you through the rough patches and moments of un-knowing, un-feeling, or wariness/moodiness.

    nevertheless, in love, i often feel like my skin is inside out. that i am seeing only my own outside, or that recognizing myself in the mirror is the only way to know how i truly feel, what i truly want, what i truly am in this relationship. clearing away my pre-conceptions and meditating on the other person helps too, when alone, bc i become more in touch with what/who they really are apart from me and what i want in a very ephemeral Fe moment/mood.

    much of what i am interested in discussing is probably a mix of passion, yes, but just as much, relationship growing pains for infj types who have very little experience and a lot of Ni bullshit to come to terms with, open up and become less restricted, less demanding, and more responsible, reasonable, generous adults (talking about myself here).

  5. #55
    Member Jaded Idealist's Avatar
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    i do not think that infjs need to be the most unhappy in marital situations by any means. god knows i wont be. i've already figured out too much to ever let that happen. i feel better about myself as a result of mb than i ever have, largely bc it has helped me communi9cate better with others and create more fulfilling relationships. i do want to think aloud in this thread bc i have a lot of loose ends i am trying to arrange into a more coherent and multi-faceted picture.
    Amen. All of our introspection, all that Ni meticulously going to work ultimately has to coalesce into real wisdom. INFJs are anything but drifting pieces of wood ready to be nailed down by the current (sorry, ESFPs, but you've got something to work on ) and when we find that rare little thing in this world that could be called true love, we've evaluated and examined the circumstances so succinctly, so holistically that it could scarcely be anything else than love indeed.

  6. #56
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i do not understand why this is relevant. the body goes through biological changes when interacting with others, quite drastically when sexual response becomes activated. of course this is true. but i don't know why you bring this up, unless you are saying the way to passionately fall in love with someone is just- whoever you sleep with, you'll passionately love. bc biology makes it so.
    well, you made this relevant for me when you kept mentioning the framework of the 'triangular theory of love' and how we deal with love within that construct. i wikied it and it just doesn't ring very true for me personally. yes, i can understand it, but it doesn't resonate with me. i think about love as i mentioned in my post, but that is only the tip of the iceberg. and as i said in my post, no, i think WHY we fall in love with a certain person is a mystery, not that we necessarily fall in love with whom we fuck. you must be getting this post confused with some of my others.




    but we have different balances of thinking and feeling. we have a totally different perceptual system, at opposite ends of the spectrum. we are directed outward and very detail-oriented in the world as a result. our introverted judgment function is an unconscious one (Ti). this grounds us to ourselves and what we think is TRUE for us. clarifies the story that creates some of our sense of purpose, internal stability, calling, direction, etc. whereas Fe is directed outside of ourselves, connecting with others perhaps somewhat discriminantly, but ultimately focused on them (their story, their needs, their information) rather than our own way of relating to them. on how they relate to us and each other, at large. which makes it difficult, i find, to be in touch with my overarching, long-range feelings (/wants).

    this is not an impossible problem. but i do find that it makes for some specific challenges. tho, as stated in the thread, probably not as problematic as just becoming healthier, improving in the ability to let go, to stop foreseeing SO HARD all the time, to be more in the moment, connect with Fe more freely, and allow a sense of conduct to guide you through the rough patches and moments of un-knowing, un-feeling, or wariness/moodiness.

    nevertheless, in love, i often feel like my skin is inside out. that i am seeing only my own outside, or that recognizing myself in the mirror is the only way to know how i truly feel, what i truly want, what i truly am in this relationship. clearing away my pre-conceptions and meditating on the other person helps too, when alone, bc i become more in touch with what/who they really are apart from me and what i want in a very ephemeral Fe moment/mood.
    well, i understand that different types are going to approach love and relationship differently. i just am not sure how much Ti or Fe or Bs plays in that. imo, probably not nearly as much as life circumstances. i just don't think we are all that different when it comes to taking that plunge. but i respect your need/desire to analyze it to the nth degree. i am like that too about many things. T or F can each have their inherent difficulties, though i am by no means a function expert.

    Ti is my 5th function, not 3rd. i think it might be interesting to see what other infj's function order is (i've mentioned this before in several threads). i DO have a problem seeing people as they are, but i tend to see them as more beautiful and perfect instead of as lacking (not saying you think this way, just saying), which makes me love people more easily perhaps. maybe Ti keeps one from being able to fully embrace someone because you are always analyzing them to see if they are really a good fit for you? i've heard this same theme in many infj posts on love and relationship.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


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