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  1. #71
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyrdsister View Post
    I just find it hilarious when NTs profess to have no feelings or emotions, or that they don't use them at all in their lives. It's ridiculous.

    IMHO.
    agreed.

    minus the IMHO.

    [those that do profess such lack of emotions] think they're so much better .

  2. #72
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cut the grass View Post
    agreed.



    [those that do profess such lack of emotions] think they're so much better .

    Again we are back to the problem of human vanity which is unjustified. It could never be.

  3. #73
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Clearly Sensors tend to come to their opinions of people based on observations of their behavior and iNtuitors based on their perceptions of their intentions.
    Heh, you have described some of the fights Cherie and I have had in a nutshell. So many times she is evaluating me based on what I actually do / have done / not done (i.e., my observable/observed behavior), while I am getting much more bent out of shape because I am weighing her motivations/intentions... even if she "looks like" she is doing the right thing.

    As you say, I see value in both. I am looking for authenticity and heart condition, the stuff that prevents cancer from eating people from the inside-out (no white-walled tombs for me); she is looking at outward behavior and preventing people from living just on good intentions while not changing what they actually act upon.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #74
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    yes, which is what makes it so ridiculous

  5. #75
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Every time I read the title of this thread, the Coca Cola hippie song pops into my head.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #76
    Senior Member meshou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Clearly Sensors tend to come to their opinions of people based on observations of their behavior and iNtuitors based on their perceptions of their intentions.
    Bullshit. A utilitarian philosophy, arrived at through experience, does not make you a sensor. I'm an extremely strong intuitor, to the point of having difficulty talking about particulars over abstracts in everyday language, and yet this is what I've chosen.

    It is the result of many many many years of abuse from someone with a good faculty with words and a wide range of expression-- and with words, really, you can argue and apologize for absolutely anything, and you can look very very sorry without intending it. Being forced to live with that tends to breed codependant tendancies. I nip those in the bud.

    XSFJs have a great deal of trouble leaving terrible relationships, often because of their focus on intent over action. "Sure John beats me, but he doesn't mean it, and he NEEDS me!"
    Let's do this thing.

  7. #77
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    Bullshit. A utilitarian philosophy, arrived at through experience, does not make you a sensor. I'm an extremely strong intuitor, to the point of having difficulty talking about particulars over abstracts in everyday language, and yet this is what I've chosen.

    XSFJs have a great deal of trouble leaving terrible relationships, often because of their focus on intent over action. "Sure John beats me, but he doesn't mean it, and he NEEDS me!"
    That can certainly be true. Interestingly, my sister has a friend (ISFJ probably) who has stayed in a bad relationship. One way she rationalizes it is to blow way out of proportion those actions that aren't unkind. He is a complete jerk to her, but she recounted how at a funeral he saw a rose start to fall off the coffin and immediately leaned over to balance it back in the center. She considered that proof of his enormous sensitivity and wonderfulness.

    Someone who beats their loved one does not have strong enough intentions towards their loved one's well-being or they would find a way to stop. Their good intentions are only towards their own being. I guess I don't see the schism between intention and action that others do. It can happen, but is more of a temporary inconsistency. Eventually the truth of the thing will bear itself out in reality. I'm of the position that reality is in the end stronger than anyone's make-believe.

    You are right to caution against valuing inaccurate perceptions of intention over actions. It's easier to be wrong about evaluating intentions than actions. I would suggest, however, that it is not enough reason to dismiss them entirely.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  8. #78
    Senior Member meshou's Avatar
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    Because if you were a hit kid, you tend to draw people who want to hit you but say they don't want to like flies to honey. Probably because you almost reflexively believe them. The change to "don't look at what they say or feel, look at what they do." vastly improved the quality of my relationships.

    I might eventually care a little more about intent, but caring what they do as a predictor for future behavior is a fine intermediate recovery stage, I think.
    Let's do this thing.

  9. #79
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    Because if you were a hit kid, you tend to draw people who want to hit you but say they don't want to like flies to honey. Probably because you almost reflexively believe them. The change to "don't look at what they say or feel, look at what they do." vastly improved the quality of my relationships.

    I might eventually care a little more about intent, but caring what they do as a predictor for future behavior is a fine intermediate recovery stage, I think.
    I'm not familiar with the term hit kid.

    I agree that actions are a more direct way to determine intent than words. If there is a significant schism between an individual's action and words, it is better to determine intent based on the actions. Talk is cheap and requires less personal investment.

    Interestingly enough I have had some opposite experiences. In my profession there are many silver-tongued devils. Flattery is typically a precursor to exploitation. I wish I could determine intent more quickly than I do. It would save me some trouble.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #80
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    Bullshit. A utilitarian philosophy, arrived at through experience, does not make you a sensor. I'm an extremely strong intuitor, to the point of having difficulty talking about particulars over abstracts in everyday language, and yet this is what I've chosen.

    It is the result of many many many years of abuse from someone with a good faculty with words and a wide range of expression-- and with words, really, you can argue and apologize for absolutely anything, and you can look very very sorry without intending it. Being forced to live with that tends to breed codependant tendancies. I nip those in the bud.

    XSFJs have a great deal of trouble leaving terrible relationships, often because of their focus on intent over action. "Sure John beats me, but he doesn't mean it, and he NEEDS me!"

    I didnt say judging by the ends makes you a sensor. Utilitarianism is an ethical theory where the moral worth of the act is assessed in terms of ends it produces. So behavioral psychology is not a specie of Utilitarianism in that sense.

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