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  1. #51
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    I do care about people. Over the years I've learned what are the kind of things that make people tick. I can often dissect what they're saying to get to the root of what's bothering them. Sometimes even revealing something to them about what may be going on inside of themselves. I suppose it's an analytical NT thing.

    I can be around suffering sadness and anger without it changing my mood or being scared off by it. I don't know how empathetic I truly am though. I don't try to draw anything out of anybody. I sometimes want to know what people see in me. A lot of people will reveal deep personal stuff to me, like literally confessions of breaking all of the ten commandments, and I never do anything for them. Until right now I never even wondered was I supposed to. I don't know why they do this. I've never asked. Not even sure of the repeat customers. Though I've gotten a few "I've never told this to anyone before…"'s.

    If there's a natural inclination I think it's to alleviating discouragement. I'll generally let people rant or boo hoo but when they talk about giving up, it's hard for me to not say something to point out that things aren't as shitty as they may appear. My only pithy saying is the Chinese proverb of "the man who walks a mile a day will eventually make it around the world." I'm not really a hang in there, things will get better kind of guy but I will point out alternate methods or make suggestions or try to convince people it's not over yet.

  2. #52
    Senior Member wyrdsister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    I find it hilarious when NFs say "IMHO" when they're talking to NTs.
    It's like the NF cry of sanctuary.
    WTF are you taking about. I am an NT.
    Wyrd is a concept in Anglo-Saxon and Nordic culture roughly corresponding to fate. It is ancestral to Modern English weird, which has acquired a very different meaning.

  3. #53
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    I totally relate, toonia. This is very much my experience.

    Well, I must say that this is very common for Fe/Ti. I am not trying to pigeonhole people here, but many INFJs will report this and on the typological level this is quite easy to explain too.

  4. #54
    Senior Member meshou's Avatar
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    My natural inclination is to care quite a bit. However, I believe that what people do matter much more than what I or they feel. Good intentions do not matter, good feelings do not matter, whether you do good in the world is what matters.
    Let's do this thing.

  5. #55
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    I care quite a bit. However, I believe that what people do matter much more than what I or they feel. Good intentions do not matter, good feelings do not matter, whether you do good in the world is what matters.

    What if you never had a chance to do good, yet you would if you had one. A can have better intentions than B and do less good because he had less opportunities, yet would actually do more good than B if they had an equal amount of opportunities. According to the way you make assessments, B would be judged morally superior to A, yet had both been given equal opportunities A would do more good deeds than B.

  6. #56
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Hmm, the thought doesn't count for much if nothing is done with it, seems to me.

    Sure one can self-assess oneself as "superior", but frankly, what is the point if you are the only one who knows or can see it due to a lack of actions/impact?

    -Geoff

  7. #57
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Hmm, the thought doesn't count for much if nothing is done with it, seems to me.

    Sure one can self-assess oneself as "superior", but frankly, what is the point if you are the only one who knows or can see it due to a lack of actions/impact?

    -Geoff
    Seems to me that one can be good without doing good, it is just that we cant recognize that he is good untill he shows us that he is by doing good.

    Good deeds are an entailment of a good intrinsic mindset.

    Think about a thug who beats up the gang leader for his personal amusement who then is praised by the rest of the group for knocking out a tyrant. He did do a good thing, as people dont have to walk on eggshells in the group anymore, yet again he didnt care about people at all and is praised as magnanimous for all the wrong reasons.

    Or how a philistine who regularly donates to charity not because he cares about the poor, but so everybody in the community can think well of him? Or how about a legalistic preacher who is preaching good morals because he is doing what he is supposed to. Had he been supposed to preach persecution of the Jews, he would be doing that too just because his motives are always doing what he is supposed to?

    Clearly you could do good deeds that you can well take credit for, but you can not take credit for good qualities of character that we tend to associate those good deeds with. For example, you can do a good deed by giving to the poor, and this is a good deed because this will help them, but if you did this because you wanted for others to think well of you for that and for no other reason, than you can not take credit for being compassionate as we associate compassion with giving to the poor. You only get credit for having such a quality of character if this is what drives you to act. The reason for the action is what determines its moral worth and not the outcome it produces.

  8. #58
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Seems to me that one can be good without doing good, it is just that we cant recognize that he is good untill he shows us that he is by doing good.

    Good deeds are an entailment of a good intrinsic mindset.

    Think about a thug who beats up the gang leader for his personal amusement who then is praised by the rest of the group for knocking out a tyrant. He did do a good thing, as people dont have to walk on eggshells in the group anymore, yet again he didnt care about people at all and is praised as magnanimous for all the wrong reasons.

    Or how a philistine who regularly donates to charity not because he cares about the poor, but so everybody in the community can think well of him? Or how about a legalistic preacher who is preaching good morals because he is doing what he is supposed to. Had he been supposed to preach persecution of the Jews, he would be doing that too just because his motives are always doing what he is supposed to?
    By which you are pushing at "does true Altruism exist", or are all actions ultimately selfish?

    On an evolutionary basis, altruism should be virtually impossible, so if we are to value self worth by way of "good" actions that have no ulterior/selfish motives we are probably wasting our time. Or at least, we will identify so few occasions, and so few people, that we might as well dispense with it as impractical.

    By the way, "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins is a good read on this subject (if a little dated now).

    -Geoff

  9. #59
    Senior Member meshou's Avatar
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    It is more of a personal standard for me and those close to me than a statement of how everyone should be considered. It's not a standard I'd hold anyone I didn't deeply care about to.

    In any case, yes, I would rather be around a bad man who does good things than a good man who does bad ones. 'Cause duh.
    Let's do this thing.

  10. #60
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    It is more of a personal standard for me and those close to me than a statement of how everyone should be considered. It's not a standard I'd hold anyone I didn't deeply care about to.

    In any case, yes, I would rather be around a bad man who does good things than a good man who does bad ones. 'Cause duh.
    But you certainly would not want to make friends with the bad man who just did a one good thing because then you'd know that in the future he would end up doing more bad than good.

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