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  1. #41
    Senior Member wyrdsister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Be fair: He might be Spock or Data. We don't know.
    I just find it hilarious when NTs profess to have no feelings or emotions, or that they don't use them at all in their lives. It's ridiculous.

    IMHO.
    Wyrd is a concept in Anglo-Saxon and Nordic culture roughly corresponding to fate. It is ancestral to Modern English weird, which has acquired a very different meaning.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyrdsister View Post
    I just find it hilarious when NTs profess to have no feelings or emotions, or that they don't use them at all in their lives. It's ridiculous.

    IMHO.
    No, I totally agree. But this one might be Spock.

  3. #43
    Senior Member wyrdsister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    No, I totally agree. But this one might be Spock.
    Wyrd is a concept in Anglo-Saxon and Nordic culture roughly corresponding to fate. It is ancestral to Modern English weird, which has acquired a very different meaning.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Noel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alienclock View Post
    I guess this is an NF type topic.
    How much do you care how others feel?
    Everyone is Neutral in my book. I don't know them or anything about their situation. "I'd rather have good neighbours than bad ones" to go dnd on your ass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alienclock View Post
    In light of the idea that you can't control how others feel, how much should you really care?
    I think, in Buddhist teachings, that compassion / detachment are not mutually exclusive. No one can really know what your feeling. It seems all we can do for others is show an infinite amount of compassion for our aloneness.

  5. #45
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    another example of something like this is when those 30-odd students got shot up in Virginia. half the people on my msn contacts list put an emoticon flower in front of their screen name. "if you don't you're heartless. it's just respectful." they said. aren't those Virginia Tech students too busy being DEAD to go on msn? also, i don't think anyone i know has any of the friends or family of those students on their contacts list. they will NEVER see that BEAUTIFUL, PIXELATED flower that they SLAVED for days and nights to put up onto the screen. it's so insincere, it's just hilarious. if anyone honestly cares, then they should send a personal letter to someone in Virginia. people die every day, so they might as well leave that flower up forever then. those flowers can kiss my ass.
    I used to feel that way (that it was such a load of crap), but now that I'm an older fart, I made some room for that sort of behavior in my thinking:

    1. Yeah, true, it's sort of like 9/11: Our lives are so numb and commonplace that when something dramatic happens, we sometimes identify with it in order to feel something and have some sort of passion in our lives -- hence, getting heavily emotionally invested in people we would have never met or cared about outside of the tragedy. Still, we all have to start somewhere. That's not a bad place to be, we just have to move past that level of engagement.

    2. I think the personal letter would be a great thing, better than the flowerrs. But the flowers is easier and less messy, since you don't have to engage emotionally with people you don't know, who are grieving. It's like holding up a support sign from a distance, rather than being the one whose shoulder everyone is crying on; that's not an easy place to be, we all usually begin as sign holders, and some of us eventually do move past that.

    3. It's easy to see why something from another person is hypocritical, while we ourselves do nothing whatsoever. At least they're doing something and trying to engage, even if the efforts are misguided.

    4. Impersonal shows of compassion are still better than nothing. It would still move me to see people who don't know me offering some impersonal show of support (meaning I "registered on their radar, and they took a moment for me"), rather than being met with complete silence. That's pretty darn lonely. I only expect the few people who I have intimate relationships with to engage me on a deep or meaningful level; I don't require that nor maybe even want it from people I don't even know.

    Just some ideas.

    Basically, the point is to be authentic when you do something. If you don't know someone well, but just feel empathy for them in general, it's perfectly fine to do/say something more on the surface to show support, then move on with life. And if you know someone well, it's appropriate to go much further. It's the people who should be intimately involved and who blow off the suffering person that annoy me, as well as the people who don't know the suffering person from a rat's ass and somehow think it is their job to suddenly be their deepest confidante.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #46
    Member s0532's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alienclock View Post
    I guess this is an NF type topic.
    How much do you care how others feel?
    In light of the idea that you can't control how others feel, how much should you really care?

    Frankly, I enjoy caring about others... But there are times when I decide NOT to give a darn. Actually, I am leaning towards the understanding that in caring about my own feelings, its best to focus on them, and let others manage their own emotions...

    Sometimes it feels like being a bad guy, but it seems important to staying happy.

    Any ideas, thoughts, feelings?
    How much do you care?
    Topic is befuddling. Which may sound disingenuous in a "huh I'm a T" sort of way, but thas not what I mean.

    For starters, aside from extremes, how does one quantify depth of caring? are we talkin pure empathy or does another kind of emotional reaction count? Are we talking about attempting to soothe pain in others, partake in their joy- take action in some way or just respond internally.

    I think I can actually be quite sensitive to emotional states of others, ie can detect how and why they may feel as they do. Furthermore, believe anyone is always entitled to their emotions. However, rarely feel responsible, and lean distinctly toward observer role. If interesting, caring is made manifest mostly by discussion and analysis of emotion-laden situations- that is when and how I mirror and validate.

    Actually, that makes me sound like a robot, not what I intended, but there it is.

  7. #47
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    I feel like I have this constant and general low-level caring about people that is aimed at no particular person, but all who come into contact with me benefit from. When I say low-level I mean it's a there in the moment caring about what they feel, how they're feeling that moves on when I leave their presence. Like if I see a person fall, I instantly think are they alright because right then I do care that they're not hurt.

    I'll never forget when I had an asthma attack my freshman year of college and one of my classmates noticed my breathing was erratic and walked with me to the medical center. I'd never spoken to her before and here she was with me. Stuff like that inspires me to be more caring and responsible towards others, even if it's just a momentary thing.

  8. #48
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel View Post
    I think, in Buddhist teachings, that compassion / detachment are not mutually exclusive. No one can really know what your feeling. It seems all we can do for others is show an infinite amount of compassion for our aloneness.
    That makes a great deal of sense to me. Compassion requires clarity and strength. Too much empathy results in the same weakness and confusion as the one you empathize with.

    I have a particular dichotomy with empathy and detachment. There are times that I really absorb whatever emotions are around me and have to minimize my interactions with people. It's just way too much information and way too exhausting. When there is need for it, it is possible for me to switch it off and can at times feel absolutely nothing. I find the moments of attachment provide me with some shared information and motivation to help, while the detachment is what makes it possible to act on those motivations.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #49
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    That makes a great deal of sense to me. Compassion requires clarity and strength. Too much empathy results in the same weakness and confusion as the one you empathize with.

    I have a particular dichotomy with empathy and detachment. There are times that I really absorb whatever emotions are around me and have to minimize my interactions with people. It's just way too much information and way too exhausting. When there is need for it, it is possible for me to switch it off and can at times feel absolutely nothing. I find the moments of attachment provide me with some shared information and motivation to help, while the detachment is what makes it possible to act on those motivations.
    I totally relate, toonia. This is very much my experience.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyrdsister View Post
    I just find it hilarious when NTs profess to have no feelings or emotions, or that they don't use them at all in their lives. It's ridiculous.

    IMHO.
    I find it hilarious when NFs say "IMHO" when they're talking to NTs.
    It's like the NF cry of sanctuary.

    I don't really care how others feel in most cases, although I can feel empathy if something happens to someone that I can imagine would suck if I was in their shoes. It's not a strong feeling of empathy, it's more like a simple acknowledgment. If they're an SO or close friend or in my immediate family, I care how they feel as long as I think it's a valid feeling.

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