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[Ni] Ni - What does it look like in real ife?

Kiddo

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Yeah. I hate when that happens.

I worked with an ISFJ once and she would get these "hunches".
I would be like, "Where in the world did you get that idea from?!"
Yet over and over again, it would turn out she was right.

I figured out that her S function was taking in all these facts and details and storing them for future use.
And then somehow, she would get a "hunch" that would just pop up out of nowhere
that was actually based on facts she might have taken in 5 or 10 years ago!
Incredible!

That wasn't just your polite way of saying that you think I don't have any intuition was it? I don't know why, but over the last few days I have been getting the impression that people have been attacking my instincts (not so much on this forum). Meh, probably just a bout of my paranoia.

That does bring up a good question though. Intuition is instinctual knowing without a rational process. A sensor could be fooled into believing that their hunches are intuition, rather than drawn conclusions from patterns perceived through an excellent memory. How would you one go about recognizing an intuitive person from an astute and suspicious sensor? Could an external observer really draw that conclusion?
 

Natrushka

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So the Ni is making invisible connections based on iNtuitive information, I guess?

Yes, that's how I see it. My STJ husband and I will arrive at a similar conclusion but we'll get there via very different connections.

As for trusting / not trusting that 'hunch' or 'gut feeling' - time and experience help with that a great deal. I used to let only me know when I had a gut feeling about something, because I wasn't sure, or lacked self confidence. I am still wrong, of course, but I'm more likely to know it beforehand now, and still share the information with a few people.
 

Natrushka

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How would you one go about recognizing an intuitive person from an astute and suspicious sensor? Could an external observer really draw that conclusion?

This is how it goes in my family / household (I am surrounded by Sensors, two are Ts and one is an F, all are Js).

I ask questions. A lot of them. Another intuitive sees this for what it is, trying to understand the whole of the issue. My sensing family thinks I am questioning them because I doubt them. When I ask a question there usually isn't a judgement attached to it, when my Sensing family hears my question they assuming there is a judgement attached to it.

SJ husband: We're almost out of soup (he likes instant cup of soups)
Me: Did you see the boxes I put in the pantry? (he suffers from "can't see what's infront of me" - or "everything is outside of my line of sight" - and he'll freely admit that to anyone)
Me: They were the chicken ones, I bought two days ago. Did you find those.
SJ husband: Why don't you go look if you don't believe me?

I'm trying to assertain that he really did eat 6 boxes of soup in two days, he thinks I'm calling him an idiot.
 

Totenkindly

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When someone is telling me something, as I listen, I am reconciling the information with information I already have in my head.
When something doesn't make sense to me, it's because it doesn't "add up" with what I already know to be true...

Yes, I have that happen a great deal.

Usually I just 'flag it' and intuit a few of the most likely reasons that it is not making sense and meanwhile allow them to continue talking, matching up what they are continuing to say with the potential scenarios I've thought of to see if any of them are panning out.
 

INTJMom

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That wasn't just your polite way of saying that you think I don't have any intuition was it?
Certainly not!! Why I hardly know you, and generally speaking I think INFJs are wonderful people. :)
What I meant was that it happens to me too, and I don't like it.
And then I gave an example of how someone can have a "hunch" which is seemingly based on nothing, yet if you traced it out, it actually is based on true fact.
Instead of "facts" my intuitions or theories tend to be based on principles of life.

I don't know why, but over the last few days I have been getting the impression that people have been attacking my instincts (not so much on this forum). Meh, probably just a bout of my paranoia.
Well, either way I'm sorry you have been feeling that way. I know it's uncomfortable.

That does bring up a good question though. Intuition is instinctual knowing without a rational process.
Hmm... Is that what they say? That's not fair for people to call our instincts non-rational. Mine are rational to me! :shock:

A sensor could be fooled into believing that their hunches are intuition, rather than drawn conclusions from patterns perceived through an excellent memory. How would you one go about recognizing an intuitive person from an astute and suspicious sensor? Could an external observer really draw that conclusion?
The short answer, I guess, is yes, since I was an external observer who figured out the difference. I first figured out that she was an SJ, and then that she was a super-feeler.

I guess the hunches at first did seem sort of picked out of thin air with no supporting information, so in that way they seemed to be dangerous assumptions - from my perspective - dangerous in that they seemed to have no basis in fact and common sense was not a factor because we were doing historical research. I personally don't like when people jump to conclusions.

When I would question her about her "hunch" she was not always able to immediately support her theory, but 99% of the time, as we continued down the path her hunch brought us down, I would learn her hunch was in fact based on solid evidence she had gleaned sometimes many years before. I was almost jealous of her incredible memory that could absorb that much information! I learned to trust her hunches because she was almost always right!
 

INTJMom

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Yes, I have that happen a great deal.

Usually I just 'flag it' and intuit a few of the most likely reasons that it is not making sense and meanwhile allow them to continue talking, matching up what they are continuing to say with the potential scenarios I've thought of to see if any of them are panning out.
Now that you mention it, I think I do it that way also, but sometimes, I can't get past it, probably when I am being asked to be judge and jury, and expected to respond in some significant way.
 

INTJMom

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This is how it goes in my family / household (I am surrounded by Sensors, two are Ts and one is an F, all are Js).

I ask questions. A lot of them. Another intuitive sees this for what it is, trying to understand the whole of the issue. My sensing family thinks I am questioning them because I doubt them. When I ask a question there usually isn't a judgement attached to it, when my Sensing family hears my question they assuming there is a judgement attached to it.

SJ husband: We're almost out of soup (he likes instant cup of soups)
Me: Did you see the boxes I put in the pantry? (he suffers from "can't see what's infront of me" - or "everything is outside of my line of sight" - and he'll freely admit that to anyone)
Me: They were the chicken ones, I bought two days ago. Did you find those.
SJ husband: Why don't you go look if you don't believe me?

I'm trying to assertain that he really did eat 6 boxes of soup in two days, he thinks I'm calling him an idiot.
tee-hee
We have similar "discussions" in our family.
 

Totenkindly

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Now that you mention it, I think I do it that way also, but sometimes, I can't get past it, probably when I am being asked to be judge and jury, and expected to respond in some significant way.

:D Well, what's a mom to do? (In that sense, children force parents to develop their intuitive skills to SOME degree.)
 

Wolf

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I think Ni is how I make crazy, yet almost invariably correct, intuitive leaps. I believe this coupled with Te is how I see through things, too. I'm knows for this mysterious ability to see into black boxes, tell people how they work (correctly), and tell people that have intimate knowledge of their inner workings what's wrong inside of them. It's some kind of pattern-matching/forming system - everything has a pattern and it's just a matter of finding it.

"Do you see the method that handles X?" ... "There's a problem in the loop there that manipulates Y.", "I see it", "Now, move it to Z.", "Done", "It'll work right now. Thanks."

Don't ask me how this works, it's magic. It's like how I solve problems or select from a group of solutions, only that I can usually come up with many rational reasons one is better than the others. If an INTP totally trusts you, they'll follow your choices from their list of well-thought-out ideas/solutions, even if you're really just giving assorted reasons why one is better than another and the only reason you advocate one is because it just stands out as the best to you, so you actually manipulated the values of different positives/negatives to get the choice accepted. It's not perfectly rational - it's magic. Some kind of highly flexible pattern matching coupled with an ability to approach from seemingly-random angles, which coupled with my Te allows me to distill them down to the best solution. I can also originate ideas, but then I might have realized in retrospect that I missed some possibilities that would have been better, so I either re-implement something right or leave it for later if it's sufficient and doesn't decrease the result quality of future choices.

It also allows me to see outcomes of choices/actions, even if they're vague, because certain ones are better than others. It probably makes us the best strategy game players (ex: chess) and is the reason we optimize high-payoff strategies for every game (ex: scrabble, poker). We do everything based on intuitive payoff values, so our route is controlled by these payoff value choices.

I expect that one of the weirder/scarier things to an SJs would be watching an INTJ and INFJ that are really close discussing things that are totally illegal and immoral. The INTJ will totally ignore morality and support the INFJ's most evil fantasies, coming up with ways to do them, telling them the best way to do it, get away with it, etc. One of those powerful teams that could be for good or evil mattering on how the wind blows. (Like INTJs and INTPs, except it'll usually be for some positive purpose, but that purpose could theoretically be anything.) I'll just say that some conversations I've had with the most loving INFJs, particularly out of the context of the relationship, would probably scare most people.

The noise in my head when I'm going to sleep is very weird. I can have "conversations" with virtual patterns of people. Sometimes I'll have online chats with people in these twilight dreams.
 

runvardh

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That evil stuff you have an INTJ and INFJ talking about goes on in my head when ever I get struck with a "problem" to solve. I may not actually want to do it, but the ideas would still come as if I were totally going to do it. I scare myself sometimes...
 

Wolf

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That evil stuff you have an INTJ and INFJ talking about goes on in my head when ever I get struck with a "problem" to solve. I may not actually want to do it, but the ideas would still come as if I were totally going to do it. I scare myself sometimes...
Yeah, but we discuss them at length.

I always wonder if the INFJ is disturbed by me after these conversations, even though they invariably started it.
 

runvardh

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Yeah, but we discuss them at length.

I always wonder if the INFJ is disturbed by me after these conversations, even though they invariably started it.

I talked with the driver of an armored truck as he was passing through town. He talked about stupid people trying to break into the truck with bars and hammers. Each security feature he went into I managed to come up with something against it and near the end I told him my idea on how best to get in. I'm not sure if I ever saw such a look of horror till I told him "thankfully I'm not into that kind of thing."
 

Kiddo

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I ask questions. A lot of them. Another intuitive sees this for what it is, trying to understand the whole of the issue. My sensing family thinks I am questioning them because I doubt them. When I ask a question there usually isn't a judgement attached to it, when my Sensing family hears my question they assuming there is a judgement attached to it.

:doh: Of course...I also get that a lot in my family.

I usually recognize them best because they hate abstract concepts like the MBTI and philosophy. Come to think of it, why are there sensors here?


My...don't I feel silly. My apologies, I wasn't having a very good day yesterday. :blush:

I've often wondered how a sensor could get by without using intuition, but it sounds like an excellent memory can be used just as well. From my experience they can also use that as a weapon, by instantly recalling on a whim, every mistake you have ever made in their presence.
 

faith

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I have an issue with the "just knowing" thing because I never have anything tangible to back it up. I just know about a person or how a situation will turn out, but I'll agonize over it rather than do anything because I can't prove to myself that what I know is true.. And then, of course, it turns out to be exactly as I expected. :doh:

Yeah, and when other people suggest alternatives that they think could be true, I can always see it from their points of view. Then I get all confused because I'm sure I'm right, except their points make sense and I don't have that "tangible" back up to my opinion.
 

Totenkindly

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Yeah, and when other people suggest alternatives that they think could be true, I can always see it from their points of view. Then I get all confused because I'm sure I'm right, except their points make sense and I don't have that "tangible" back up to my opinion.

Oh, I *hate* that.

Sometimes I am fortunate enough to be able to see a logical framework that supports my internal viewpoint moreso than the others, but there are still often some intuitive leaps I am making that leaves me questioning myself and at the very least unsure how to communicate my ideas to others in ways that would convince them.
 

faith

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I expect that one of the weirder/scarier things to an SJs would be watching an INTJ and INFJ that are really close discussing things that are totally illegal and immoral. The INTJ will totally ignore morality and support the INFJ's most evil fantasies, coming up with ways to do them, telling them the best way to do it, get away with it, etc. One of those powerful teams that could be for good or evil mattering on how the wind blows.

Ha. You've just described my INTJ brother and me.

edit:
I always wonder if the INFJ is disturbed by me after these conversations, even though they invariably started it.
Probably not. Probably the INFJ is appreciating your clear-thinking skills and flagging you for a potential ally.
 

Totenkindly

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All right, I am *never* driving south again, let alone near Alabama.
 

INTJMom

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:doh: Of course...I also get that a lot in my family.

I usually recognize them best because they hate abstract concepts like the MBTI and philosophy. Come to think of it, why are there sensors here?
I know, right?
I'm stymied when I read the posts one one particular ISTP (though he does admit he's somewhat INTP also)
because I have 2 ISTPs in my family and you couldn't PAY THEM to spend time on a forum!
As a matter of fact, when my sister and I get to talking about type, my husband says, "What am I again? Oh yeah, I'm an ESPN."

I've often wondered how a sensor could get by without using intuition, but it sounds like an excellent memory can be used just as well. From my experience they can also use that as a weapon, by instantly recalling on a whim, every mistake you have ever made in their presence.
Don't I know it!
I know an ISFP who is exceptionally good at it.
 

ladypinkington

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I about laughed my butt off when you shared about your husband was it saying what am I again an ESPN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is freaking hilarious- that is TBS funny right there.

It amazes me when I come across people who don't care about learning about themselves. I have friends who can't stand the thought of knowing their type and thinking learning about any of that stuff is ridiculous.
How can one not want to learn about themselves and the inner workings of the self and others selfs??????

That does not compute.
 
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