[INFJ] INFJs & Forgiveness

[Gloriana]

Halla mentioned something about INFJs and forgiveness on another thread, and it got me reflecting on it (Yes, you've been warned, an INFJ is sitting here reflecting..)

This is something I am putting a lot of energy into working on recently. I mentioned it before, but I'm in the middle of a divorce (I feel pretty much fully divorced, it's basically just paperwork now). I don't know what type he was, some people have guessed he may have been an ISTJ. We were together for a total of a little over four years, married for a little over one year. There are so many details I could add in here, but I don't want to go on this long diatribe with too many details.

Suffice it to say, I am past playing the "Who's the good one, who's the evil one?" game because it's just pointless as I don't truly believe it works that way. He did cheat though, and he basically told me he loved me on a Monday, we had a fight on a Weds. and Friday he came home to tell me "I don't love you anymore" and he took off to live with a girl he'd known for 3 weeks.

Looking back over our relationship, I feel there were so many areas where the bottom line was just that we were so incompatible in terms of really important things. Conflict was a big problem. I'm squeamish about conflicts just like anyone, but I feel they are necessary if there is to be honesty. He compared conflict to 'torture' and often acted out toward me when I brought issues to the table, whether I snapped at him or whether I took pains to be direct and calm. I always tried to own my own feelings (I.E. saying "I feel hurt because.." rather than "You MADE me feel hurt because...") so as not to be attacking, but it seemed to make no difference; conflict became a rather awful undertaking.

I'm not saying I was perfect here, I look back and definitely see where my perfectionism got in the way and my propensity for big expectations (I.E. hoping things turn out the way they do in my head and being a pain the ass moper when they don't). All sorts of stuff like that, I know I made many mistakes and messed up in many areas.

He never did tell me about it though. I think another big issue was assertiveness. I would tell him what I wanted and needed, and asked him to please tell me too but he wouldn't. I think he bottled a lot up and it just exploded, and the only solution was when this opportunity with this girl appeared. I don't think he would have left had he not had her interest in him.

I'm talking about these details because in my head I really do want to find a way to forgive him one day. I am very bad at forgiveness but it's something I really want to get better at because I feel like it would ultimately serve to benefit me the most in so many ways, not to mention benefiting the next person I have an intimate relationship with. I do feel perhaps I did not let go of hurts he caused me within our relationship and it added to the tension between us. I think I held grudges most when I felt he did not apologize willingly, when I felt he resented me for having expressed my feelings, stuff like that.

I'm at the point where I don't feel that seething anger anymore, but it's that deep wounded hurt that goes so deep. It's really not so much that he left me which hurts, it's really the manner in which he left (and subsequent things he did after which were on the spiteful and callous side). I can accept that he lost attraction or affection for me, as much as that of course hurts. I can let that go and get peace with that. The WAY he left though, that is so hard to forgive!

I am wondering what you guys have to say about forgiveness? Like in the beginning of my relationship it was so much easier to let things go, and believe most in the good I saw in him, reminding myself of the good instead of dwelling on the hurt. It did get harder when he kept doing things that hurt me, and I suppose after awhile I was just on guard for another hurt (Just as an aside, I almost broke up with him a couple of times but did not listen to my gut. I think I read somewhere that INFJs have a bad habit of sticking with relationships past expiration date, something I'm learning from).

In my head I think "I just need to see him as a person with a flaws who makes mistakes, forgive him for it, and let the anger go" but there's that stubborn part that's like "He deserves no such courtesy". Then the logic shoots back with "It's not a courtesy to HIM, it's a courtesy to YOURSELF!".

Gah! I'll stop there before I put you peeps to sleep! If you've read all that and have thoughts, I'd love to hear them (and I thank you in advance!)

 

[Halla74]

I'm talking about these details because in my head I really do want to find a way to forgive him one day. I am very bad at forgiveness but it's something I really want to get better at because I feel like it would ultimately serve to benefit me the most in so many ways, not to mention benefiting the next person I have an intimate relationship with. I do feel perhaps I did not let go of hurts he caused me within our relationship and it added to the tension between us. I think I held grudges most when I felt he did not apologize willingly, when I felt he resented me for having expressed my feelings, stuff like that.

FORGIVENESS is for YOU. You can't change the past. It takes two to make something go right or wrong. Accept your part in things, release yourself of accountability for that which was not your fault. Perform some act of charity for those in need. Close your eyes, release the heavy bags in your hands, and move on to a glorious new future.

I'm at the point where I don't feel that seething anger anymore, but it's that deep wounded hurt that goes so deep. It's really not so much that he left me which hurts, it's really the manner in which he left (and subsequent things he did after which were on the spiteful and callous side). I can accept that he lost attraction or affection for me, as much as that of course hurts. I can let that go and get peace with that. The WAY he left though, that is so hard to forgive!

If you let that seeting anger affect you in the here and now, you give it more power of you than it is entiteld to. He fucked up. That's on him. If you fell for his smae tricks more than once, oh well, live and learn, he's the onew wielding bad mojo, not you, and karma will kick him in the yarbles.

I am wondering what you guys have to say about forgiveness? Like in the beginning of my relationship it was so much easier to let things go, and believe most in the good I saw in him, reminding myself of the good instead of dwelling on the hurt.

It took me almost 6 months to forgive things that had been issues between my wife and I for over 7 years. I wanted nothing more than to do so in my heart. Day by day, bit by bit, I put the pieces of the puzzle together. Once I havd a 7 hour surprise visit with her step-mom alot of stuff opened up and the pieces that hadn't fallen into place did. It takes time, keep up the owrk to do so, consult your support network, and it will happen, and you will be glad it did.

VGah! I'll stop there before I put you peeps to sleep! If you've read all that and have thoughts, I'd love to hear them (and I thank you in advance!)

It's real stuff! You're on the right track!

 

[lane777]

Holding a grudge is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies; your anger will not improve the situation or make you feel better, it will only wreak havoc on your emotional and physical well being. I find that a helpful way of putting it is, why would you want to punish yourself? Knowing this let's me let go.

 

[Gloriana]

Yeah, my logic tells me anger (when held on to) really is a poisonous thing. I think one of my stumbling blocks is that damned fixation on perfect justice. I unfortunately don't believe in karma, though I do believe that people who don't learn from their mistakes are condemned to repeat them. I definitely want to learn from mine!

I can say I don't feel even an eighth of the anger I did when he first left. I'm not dating right now and not jumping toward another relationship, I want to learn as much as possible from this experience and become better for it. It is teaching me a lot.

I do struggle to discern what it is I should take responsibility for and what is not my own doing, it can be hard because really, for me it can be easier to own all of it myself. Im working on it though. From what I know intimately of my ex, I do understand a lot of the reasons behind the way he behaved and it helps me let go, sort of taking the emotional connection out of it and trying to view it all as an objective spectator as much as possible.

I actually get excited when I hone in on something I clearly see I personally messed up, things that would be a detriment to any relationship, because then it's like "Now I can get to work on changing that and growing!". It's those gray areas that can haunt me and mess with my head.

I am trying to let go of that "justice" obsession, the one that wishes not for him to be hurt or tortured, but wishes there was some ultimate uber-courtroom of truth where we could both stand up before an all-knowing jury and have to look at our wrongs without the ability to hide or deny. I suppose it's wanting to validate my pain in some way that I haven't afforded myself. Again the logic jumps in to say "Pain is part of life, people hurt each other and have to endure it, I just have to validate my pain myself, accept it, and let it fly away". I'm working to get there! I try to remember it's a journey, not a quick tidy flight on a jetliner

 

[Fidelia]

Wowzers! Many bells being rung here (not the cheating part, but nearly everything else). I have found this place very useful in at least trying to piece together the thinking processes that the person wouldn't/couldn't verbalise that would make them act the way they did. It's also been useful in reflecting on why I didn't listen to my gut when it was actually time to break up and that has helped me considerably.

For me, it's this. It takes awhile to recognize the underlying issues that isolated incidents represent and start seeing some patterns. Even after recognizing them, it takes some time to be sure enough of your perceptions to verbalize them. Then there are the snags in communication styles and perceptions of each other which arise and more time is spent exhausting all possibilities of solving them singlehandedly. Even then, because no person is all bad, you continue trying to adjust, and you also still get enough glimpses of what made you love them in the first place that you continue on, even if you see some huge issues. I can imagine that the commitment of a marriage is one that you would have taken very seriously and been reluctant to abandon. I think the worst is being blindsided then after all of the work and the adjusting you have done and not being given even a chance to discuss the decision before the end is final and it is all set in stone.

I have found that a big part of letting things go for me is to make sense of them by getting different perspectives and having a chance to talk. One of the things that causes me to have difficulties saying good-bye to someone is when they leave with unfinished business that cannot get resolved and when no answers will be forthcoming from them to figure it all out.

You seem to have the perspectives in place to come through this well even if it takes time. The fact that you are not jumping into something new and taking time to process it is very healthy, I think.

I'm so sorry. You did everything you were able to and were not the one taking the easy way out. Being hard on yourself would be a normal reaction, and I think you are well on the road to forgiveness.

 

[entropie]

My INFJ is my first relationship I never needed to apologize for anything. And I think that mainly depends on the fact that she steers into a clear direction, that the ship has got a sailor and I actually feel that my feelings are in good hands and that I can trust her.

It's a gift. Definitly.

 

[lane777]

I want to learn as much as possible from this experience and become better for it. It is teaching me a lot.

I actually get excited when I hone in on something I clearly see I personally messed up, things that would be a detriment to any relationship, because then it's like "Now I can get to work on changing that and growing!"

You're definitely an INFJ hehe

I do struggle to discern what it is I should take responsibility for and what is not my own doing, it can be hard because really, for me it can be easier to own all of it myself.

I truly sympathize; it's always easier applying logic and justice to someone else' situation, but when dealing with personal issues, it becomes much more fuzzy. It's like that for everyone to some extent, but I believe it's especially difficult for our type... we tend to shoulder the blame and be much harder on ourselves than on everyone else. It's something I'm working on not doing either. Sometimes when us INFJ's put ourselves in someone else' shoes, we forget to get back in our own

It's those gray areas that can haunt me and mess with my head.

Oh yes, those cursed gray areas! They haunt me too

I am trying to let go of that "justice" obsession, the one that wishes not for him to be hurt or tortured, but wishes there was some ultimate uber-courtroom of truth where we could both stand up before an all-knowing jury and have to look at our wrongs without the ability to hide or deny. I suppose it's wanting to validate my pain in some way that I haven't afforded myself.

I suppose since I'm a Christian, I have the peace of mind that God will deal with all injustice done to me. Without this, I would definitely find dealing with these kinds of situations much more trying.

Anyways, you seem to have figured out how to best deal with the situation - you just needed some confirmation

Keep truckin

 

[iwakar]

There was some good commentary in this thread.

 

[kiddykat]

Hope it's not too late to chime in..

Least he did you a favor, right? Better now than later?

In hindsight, you still have more years ahead of you, and at least you saw the truth for what it was. There is no point in blaming yourself.

Perhaps you can use that experience to better hone on your intuitive abilities for the next future relationship(s)? Only for the better..

Easier said than done, but eventually, when something hurts us long enough, we start to grow numb to it, and... move on. Best of luck, and stay strong.

 

[Tiltyred]

Easier said than done, but eventually, when something hurts us long enough, we start to grow numb to it, and... move on. Best of luck, and stay strong.

Yes. Do you know the movie, The Usual Suspects? Here's a clip, and it's how I think of my marriage and subsequent divorce.
Watch The Usual Suspects: Bad Day Online - VideoSurf Video Search

 

[statuesquechica]

Wow...very heart-felt soul searching go on here. I think the greatest gift you can give yourself is recognizing your own faults, but also seeing your own beauty and the amazing qualities you brought to the relationship. Then you have to be able to see that in your ex-husband; recognize his faults and the reasons you fell in love with him. The end of a relationship is never black and white, there are always grey areas. I think the process of grieving the loss will also put things into a more realistic view.

As the posters said above: Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself.

 

[Gloriana]

Wow, you guys are awesome!

There is definitely a lot of soul searching going on. He was my first real involved relationship, the first person I really opened up to and let into my world. When he left the way he did (back in Sept last year), one of the first things that came into my head was "This is either going to kill me or be the making of me, and it's my choice".

Right now it feels like I don't even recognize who I was before he left, I actually find myself wishing I'd gone through this sort of experience a lot earlier with how much it has changed me, and keeps changing me, for the better. I've done things I would have sworn I wasn't capable of before, discovered things about myself I never knew I had in me, all kinds of things.

I'm only now reading about the auxiliary and tertiary functions, which has been interesting. They are functions that kick in when there are times of stress, am I right? I will say that for the first few months after he left it was like I didn't recognize myself. All of a sudden fear didn't exist for me and I swear I was like my ESTP friend from September to November, lol. So weird!

 

[staytuned7]

Well, I know a lot of people have given you their input all ready (I feel a little silly for giving you more!)

The reason I AM replying is that I went through a break-up 9 months ago with my 3 1/2-year-long boyfriend that was exactly (and I mean exactly like your situation).

He started off by one day (suddenly and unexpectedly) coming up to me saying "I'm really unhappy with our relationship." Boom! Out of the blue. Blindsided. Of course my response was "oh my goodness, tell me what I can do, blahblahblah, let me make you happy!" I'd always made it clear to him my feelings and I had always assured him that he could be safe in telling me his. He never did. He bottled up. It led to this explosion and he was determined to break up with me. I was determined to make it work. We battled with this for a few days. When I finally gave in to the idea of us breaking up, he decided he didn't want to (the "I love you on Monday" thing). Two days later, he cheated on me, broke up with me for good, and went on a date with the girl he cheated on me with. He's still dating her.

BUT, I'm not still angry at him! I was livid at the time, though. Rage, I'd call it. The first time I'd felt such a negative feeling.

But I HAVE forgiven him, and you will forgive your ex-man. I can completely relate, though to every single thing you've said you're going through. The part about finding it easier to take the blame for everything that went wrong in the relationship, about wanting some sort of "justice", wanting him to have left in some (ANY) other way (this was the part that hurt the most), just wanting an apology (and knowing you'll never get it). OK, that last one was just me, but whatever

I guess all I can say is, it takes time, patience and support. What really, really helped me get over that last hurdle (closed the door to all the pain for good) was realising that all the good stuff that is happening in my life right now (the new places I'm going, all the wonderful people I've met, the Faith I've found, the absolute happiness I'm feeling) are all thanks to him. I wouldn't be where I am now if it weren't for what he taught me in our relationship, from the contacts I made in our relationship AND from him ending our relationship.

But that took time, patience and support. It took a lot of introspection and strength (to not slander his name across the country, to not kill him, to not blame myself for everything, to not blame him for everything).

You will (and seem to be already) learn a lot from this experience. You'll grow in ways you'll never imagine and I promise that if you just give yourself time to heal, cool off (which you seem to have), and let your life blossom out of the ashes, you'll be 10x the person you were before (and 100x the person he will continue to be).

You just have to become detached from him and whatever fantasies you have conjured up of how you would've preferred the relationship to end (or any retribution you would like to see). You have to be open to being forgiving. This was the hardest for me. I thought that I was open to it, but only when I truly accepted the idea of forgiving him did I realise that I had been closed to it all along. Once I really did accept the idea, forgiveness was cake.

Anyway, this may all be redundant, but I thought I'd share my life's experience (since it seems to parallel yours so eerily).

Maybe some INFJs just attract men like this

 

[substitute]

I'd say no.1: listen to Halla. Might take some time to translate S to N, but it's generally worth it.

Secondly, yeah, looks like you've really been through the mill on this. But as a veteran of the INFJ, I'd just say that, from the POV of another type, ffs don't take this experience and project it as The Way Things Are.

I only say that cos you seem pretty cool, and derserving of finding what you're looking for. And you won't if you wind up seeing everything as another manifestation of what you've experienced before, which IME, is the problem with Ni dominant types.

Just sayin'...

 

[Gloriana]

@Staytuned: Not redundant at all! Thank you for sharing with me, our situations sound very similar indeed. I totally had the rage too! I have this pain-in-the-ass warden in my head all the time which corrects me with advice like "Calling him names or calling her names, wishing for bad things to happen just feeds the negativity, that is not productive!".

I knew this logically, but I had to have my first few months of having those cathartic revenge fantasies. I knew I'd never act on any of it, it was just helpful to just purge it out of my head. I will also say that anger is an A-M-A-Z-I-N-G motivator! I tried to channel all the 'rage energy' into positive things for myself like walking, exercising, home renovations, etc. I think I had an ass-saving part inside my head that told me the #1 thing I needed to do was use that energy to better myself so I didn't wind up dwelling in the quagmire of hate and hence mess myself up. I knew I couldn't change nor control his choices, actions, or anything he did; I just had to control myself. First five months was like robotic "This will eventually pay off" motions, then I was able to really appreciate the benefits when I was more recovered from the shock of it all.

I am interested in what you said about detachment from it. I think I do tend to hang on to certain things in my head far too long because I'm unsure whether or not I've learned enough from them or squeezed enough insight out of them. I think I do need to learn that it's not denial or 'turning a blind eye' to just let certain things leave my head. I think I need to be more conscious of quantifying thoughts like that with "Does this really serve any purpose by being in my head?", and if it doesn't, to dump it out. That was very helpful!

@Substitute: First off, I am very interested in Halla's observations and thoughts, it's great stuff!

Just to clarify what you suggested so I've got it right: Do you mean you think I might need to see experiences more as an individual thing rather than sticking them into some mold formed by previous experiences? Could you go into that more with examples, I do find that interesting too.

 

[lillyofthevalley]

In my head I think "I just need to see him as a person with a flaws who makes mistakes, forgive him for it, and let the anger go" but there's that stubborn part that's like "He deserves no such courtesy". Then the logic shoots back with "It's not a courtesy to HIM, it's a courtesy to YOURSELF!".
Gah! I'll stop there before I put you peeps to sleep! If you've read all that and have thoughts, I'd love to hear them (and I thank you in advance!)

This is what forgiveness is to me, understanding that what's past is past and that you can't do anything about it so just let it go. He can't hurt you now unless you let him and going over past hurts in your mind just keep them alive. I don't keep myself up at nights about people anymore, I just cut 'em loose to float around out there somewhere and be someone else's problem. Life is about living, not to be stuck, mired down by painful memories.

 

[Gloriana]

This is what forgiveness is to me, understanding that what's past is past and that you can't do anything about it so just let it go. He can't hurt you now unless you let him and going over past hurts in your mind just keep them alive. I don't keep myself up at nights about people anymore, I just cut 'em loose to float around out there somewhere and be someone else's problem. Life is about living, not to be stuck, mired down by painful memories.

Thank you for that, it resonates with me. "He can't hurt you now unless you let him", I'm putting that on a figurative post-it and sticking it inside my head.

 

[Lux]

I don't keep myself up at nights about people anymore, I just cut 'em loose to float around out there somewhere and be someone else's problem. Life is about living, not to be stuck, mired down by painful memories.

That's great advice. I really like and agree with that. Not that I can actually do it all the time, but hey.

I have the tendency, particularly with the people who have hurt me the most, to care to the point that it becomes detrimental to me. I go over and over what I did, what could I have done... blah blah blah. Which can be good to further growth, I think to some extent. The whole self reflection thing.

What I meant *before I meandered away from my point* is that I realized that forgiveness to me was when I stop the person from taking me over and they stop consuming my mind.

Good luck

 

[fill]

Wow, that's a rough situation. I'm with others here that holding on to past pain really only hurts more, and has no positive effect, but can I propose something? I've let go of the bad things people have done to me, some of them very hurtful, which is good, but it leaves me completely open to restarting the relationship; while I have changed, the other person hasn't, and I end up getting hurt again.

So, no, don't hold on to the pain that someone has inflicted on you, but keep it as a realization of what the person is capable of, and watch your footing when encountering them again (Is this an example of Se?).

 

[Ruby Tuesday]

I could be wrong about this, but it seems to me that many if not most INFJs have incredible long-term memories, which makes it harder to move on than for some because we have an overactive instant replay function in our heads which can take over our whole bodies. Two books have helped me with this after breakups, both a year ago and many moons ago: The Road Less Traveled and The Power of Now. I also wear a ring with an ammonite in it - that thing's 15 million years old or something, so it gives me perspective; my version of King David's 'This Too Shall Pass' ring, I suppose. It also reminds me that I am both a tiny piece of nothing and yet connected to everything. And so is everyone else. Which helps me be less hard on myself and on them. Sometimes.