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Thread: Any INFJ girls?

  1. #71
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by findthejake View Post
    I would be fine with that! Like I said I just don't want to sit on the tracks anymore.

    She's the one who's been pushing to get me to meet her folks. I never suggested it but I did agree to it when she asked. Also she's the one who's been talking about the future all the time, asking me to help go with her to europe, disneyworld, california, all kinds of places.

    I send one text a day. That's it. Usually to tell her about a get together with friends or to ask how she's feeling.

    She goes through these shut-downs and then the first person she calls is her best friend. I know her feelings towards me are what brought about her shut-down. Whatever way she goes tomorrow, or tonight, I will be cool with. She is an amazing girl and I would love to be friends with her but I can not be ignored for days on end. It doesn't work for me.

    I guess maybe this thread should just be retitled and moved into the relationship forum eh? She is definitely infj but she has had some rough spots in her life that has made her very fragile. I'm trying to be patient but it's crazy hard.

    Anyway I'll stop with this thread now. Sorry to dump on all ya'll!
    Oh stop that. We're all fine. If you can't blow off some steam here, where can you blow it off?

    Your relationship with this woman sounds too complicated and frustrating. I'm a believer in in things that kind of just fall into place, know what I mean?

    PS The photos on your website are great. You seem quite the adventurer!
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  2. #72
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Wow...I understand how you feel about her...but I would dump her if she blew me off for a week with basically no explanation.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  3. #73

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    Most normal people would dump her I suppose and if she was any other girl I would have already but I can't get past the feelings of how right it is when we're together...

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by findthejake View Post
    I would be fine with that! Like I said I just don't want to sit on the tracks anymore.

    She's the one who's been pushing to get me to meet her folks. I never suggested it but I did agree to it when she asked. Also she's the one who's been talking about the future all the time, asking me to help go with her to europe, disneyworld, california, all kinds of places.

    I send one text a day. That's it. Usually to tell her about a get together with friends or to ask how she's feeling.

    She goes through these shut-downs and then the first person she calls is her best friend. I know her feelings towards me are what brought about her shut-down. Whatever way she goes tomorrow, or tonight, I will be cool with. She is an amazing girl and I would love to be friends with her but I can not be ignored for days on end. It doesn't work for me.

    I guess maybe this thread should just be retitled and moved into the relationship forum eh? She is definitely infj but she has had some rough spots in her life that has made her very fragile. I'm trying to be patient but it's crazy hard.

    Anyway I'll stop with this thread now. Sorry to dump on all ya'll!
    This is the first time I checked out this thread.

    I've been in a similar situation a couple times. That is, the gal and I seemed to be in synch and we were both making all the right commitment noises when we were together, but then it turned out to be difficult to get together. The gal put up a lot of barriers, I felt like I was being kept at arm's length, etc.

    It seemed like a big quandary. We were supposedly committed to make the relationship go forward; but OTOH I couldn't actually seem to get any personal time with the gal, which killed any possibility for forward motion.

    In the couple cases where this happened to me, it usually turned out that we were engaged in a tug-of-war over timing. The woman honestly felt the relationship had a lot of promise and wanted it to move forward as much as me, but for reasons of her own she wanted it to progress very slowly. I, on the other hand, wanted to move it along pretty quickly.

    The quickest way to get on the same page (or at least find out what was going on) was to be very direct and ask how she was scheduling the relationship in her head. For example, if we hadn't had sex yet and she was obviously derailing any attempts on my part in that direction, the quickest way to find out what was going on was to say, "The relationship seems to be going well, we seem to have a future together, I really like you and you seem to really like me. So I'm not trying to push here, I just would like to have an idea of the timeframe: So when do you see us having sex for the first time?"

    If she hemmed and hawed about it, I would press a bit. I would say that as long as the relationship is working for us, it's not unreasonable to want to peer into the future a bit and see where we're heading and at what pace. I would also point out that I tended to wind up in bed with past girlfriends pretty quickly, and by comparison this current relationship was moving at a snail's pace. I didn't need to go to bed right away, but I would like to at least know her philosophy on the subject--for example, did she plan on holding out until marriage or something?

    Anyway, that approach always led to some lively discussions. And with the type of woman I mentioned above, it usually turned out that they were thinking in terms of us getting to know each other slowly and holding off on sex for a prolonged period of time. In turn, that tended to lead to some lively negotiations about the timing of sex. Sometimes it took us a couple get-togethers to work out a compromise we could both live with.

    But to the extent that we eventually worked out something, the actual process of spending time with each other ceased to be a big problem. That is, with some agreement worked out about where we were headed and some trust built up, suddenly it became a lot easier to get together and spend time with each other.

    In summary, women usually like to be courted and they usually like to be in the company of an adoring partner. So when a woman seems committed to a relationship but holds the guy at bay, I tend to suspect she's skittish about sex (or perhaps some other relationship threshold) for various reasons and is trying to control the timing and progression of the relationship by controlling access and the amount of time spent together. So if you work out something on the sex issue, then presumably there's no more need to be so controlling about access and time spent together.

    That's just a general rule, of course. I don't know how that works out for INFJs specifically, or your girlfriend in particular. (I did most of my dating in my 20s and 30s and didn't learn about MBTI until my 40s, so I don't know the types of most past girlfriends.) I also don't know if your relationship is sexual. But as a general rule, if she seems into the relationship and into you but is keeping you at bay, then I would suggest that it's not your physical presence that's bugging her. My experience is that she is trying to slow down and control the progression to the next relationship threshold (which was usually sex in the cases that I encountered).

    As for how exactly you negotiate a compromise on sex, that's another story. I'll leave that aside for now and just stick to the principle: She probably doesn't dislike your company; she's probably just trying to control the pacing of the relationship.

    Also, there's the issue of what that says about her--that she would unilaterally control the relationship and put you on hold to that extent. I'll leave that aside for now, too. But I would say it's not a bad thing. I like a woman who knows what she wants and fights for it. Just get used to negotiating. When she acts a little strange, don't just take the easy route and assume that she's nuts. Instead, get used to digging a bit to find out the real reason, then be willing to negotiate.

    But that's just my experience of course. I don't know you or your girlfriend. Who knows. Maybe you really are that difficult to endure. Or maybe your girlfriend really is just a bit nuts.

  5. #75

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    Not discounting the last two sentences at all, I think you NAILED the rest of it man.

    We decided the first time I stayed at her place to hold off on sex since we both wanted it to be a lasting relationship and since then i've stayed at her place maybe 4or5 times, each one turning a bit more sexual but never actually doing anything but I definitely get more touchy feely than she does and we've never talked about how long we were going to hold off on it. I think you might have hit it on the head and that discussion will definitely happen if she ever lets me talk to her!

    Thanks a ton man. Very insightful!

  6. #76
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Oh wow. That could be why I didn't have those problems in my relationship with my husband or at least not to that extent. It was just assumed we would wait until marriage for sex. To have done otherwise would have gotten us kicked out of school. The time frame was built in because I knew we couldn't get married until school let out in the spring because, once again, we would have gotten kicked out of school. I knew I had at least until school got out in the spring before I had to be absolutely committed to anything. It even made me feel safe enough to accept his proposal when I thought it was way too soon to do so because I knew I had six months to change my mind.

    I was in a no boys allowed dorm with a strict curfew, so there were limits on how much time we could spend together, so I had kind of a built in refuge.

    I did make a point very early on to stay on the side he had a cast on (his wrist was broken when we first started seeing each other) so I wouldn't have to hold his hand before I was ready and the first time he told me he loved me I thought it was too soon so I said "ditto." Then that time I got sick and he couldn't come see me because he wasn't allowed in the dorms and he called me either crying or really close to it . . . that was . . . I was glad he cared, but it was still like, "Can't I even be sick??"

    But, yeah, I could handle that the relationship was moving along quite a bit more quickly than I was really comfortable with because I knew I had those built in safeguards. By the time we could get married, I was totally on board.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by findthejake View Post
    [...]We decided the first time I stayed at her place to hold off on sex since we both wanted it to be a lasting relationship and since then i've stayed at her place maybe 4or5 times, each one turning a bit more sexual but never actually doing anything but I definitely get more touchy feely than she does and we've never talked about how long we were going to hold off on it. [...]
    Sounds familiar. Some things transcend personality type and go all the way back to basics: the Battle of the Sexes.

    Quote Originally Posted by findthejake View Post
    Thanks a ton man. Very insightful!
    Thanks. Some things you mentioned (her talk about meeting her parents, making plans for future trips together) indicate that she is strongly into the relationship and is trying to demonstrate a big potential commitment to you. IOW, the big-picture view of the relationship as a whole seems solid enough.

    If the big picture is positive, then the rest is usually pretty easy. It's just a question of talking things out and getting a lead on whatever temporary factor has her bouncing around like a ping-pong ball.

    IOW, don't be afraid to be yourself and court her as you see fit. It sounds as though she likes you just the way you are. When she turns skittish, don't take it personally. It's just that she's got a scheduling calendar in her head, and since she's an introvert she may not reveal it to you right away. But you can talk with her and get her to reveal it. Then, once the scheduling is out in the open, you can usually negotiate with her about the scheduling as well. But it may take a couple negotiating sessions to work out something--don't try to settle everything in one sitting.

    The only time to worry is when the big picture gets hazy and ambiguous. For example, it's tough to know what to do when you've been in a LTR with a woman and it's reached the point where you two honestly don't seem to like each other anymore and you spend most of your time cutting each other down. Then it gets tough to know which way to go--rebuild the old relationship or bail and find a new one. (But that's a different situation.)

    Anyway, good luck!

    (P.S. I lived in Phoenix for a year in the 80s. Nice part of the country out there!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Oh wow. That could be why I didn't have those problems in my relationship with my husband or at least not to that extent. It was just assumed we would wait until marriage for sex. To have done otherwise would have gotten us kicked out of school. The time frame was built in because I knew we couldn't get married until school let out in the spring because, once again, we would have gotten kicked out of school. I knew I had at least until school got out in the spring before I had to be absolutely committed to anything. It even made me feel safe enough to accept his proposal when I thought it was way too soon to do so because I knew I had six months to change my mind.

    I was in a no boys allowed dorm with a strict curfew, so there were limits on how much time we could spend together, so I had kind of a built in refuge.

    I did make a point very early on to stay on the side he had a cast on (his wrist was broken when we first started seeing each other) so I wouldn't have to hold his hand before I was ready and the first time he told me he loved me I thought it was too soon so I said "ditto." Then that time I got sick and he couldn't come see me because he wasn't allowed in the dorms and he called me either crying or really close to it . . . that was . . . I was glad he cared, but it was still like, "Can't I even be sick??"

    But, yeah, I could handle that the relationship was moving along quite a bit more quickly than I was really comfortable with because I knew I had those built in safeguards. By the time we could get married, I was totally on board.
    Nice post, cafe. Personally, I can slip into relationships (and even marriages) as effortlessly and thoughtlessly as diving into a swimming pool. But your post shows how big a factor scheduling and timing can be for an INFJ.

  9. #79

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    the more and more i think about the conversations we've had and her response to my sexual um...attention makes this more and more plausible. Now I just hope I haven't messed things up too much!

    I'll find out soon enough I guess!

  10. #80
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by findthejake View Post
    Not discounting the last two sentences at all, I think you NAILED the rest of it man.

    Thanks a ton man. Very insightful!
    FineLine's responses are always insightful and impressive.

    So what's happening?

    Hmmm wait, you're not online so maybe that's a good thing? <crossed fingers>
    Time is a delicate mistress.

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