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  1. #11
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I have a boundary, but figuring out why the boundary is there works some of the kinks out in my mind. I don't really question the boundary, it's there, it's me, I do it and I have no problem with it because I've stayed out of a lot of drama because of it. Often I'm reacting to the person on some unconscious level and later on something happens for me to think, wow, it was a good thing you didn't go there with them.

    Eesh, my fingers hurt.
    Coming from the dark Fi side , please forgive if I screw it up, but is this boundary there to protect your weaknesses? Let's assume Fe sort of works to maintain (yikes) social control (sorry) in a beautiful way to balance out the Te users. By letting everyone see your emo insides, it might give them some amount of leverage to use against you later in an emo way? Thus only those, very,very close get in all the way-everyone else gets the first five floors as PP said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    I read once that ENFJs are the most introverted of all the extraverted types; we should make time alone for ourselves to recoup the energy lost from all the "mirroring prospectives" we receive from people.
    This reminds me of the masks some of the entps mention, except it seems much more natural for you guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Hello, Fuzz

    ENFJs are notoriously private. I never thought of myself that way (blinded by own like/need for people and interaction and taking THAT as a sign that I'm "open" which isn't accurate), but when I'm standing next to my ENFP twin, it's so obvious that I have a "this far and no further" while my sister's boundaries are way more amorphous.

    . I don't like it when a single hostile person tries to make emotional and therefore physical hostages of an entire group or entity. Even if I don't act, I view that sort of hijacking immediately and instinctively as something that must be stopped. I'm something like my ISTP shadow in the sense that once I've made up my mind, belaboring my decision will only make me crazy.
    that-bolded-is fascinating. When proteo had a comment on a previous thread she mentioned her boss blurting out crap like "it's killing my soul". Emo dumping I think is a good term to apply. Fi does it to clean house and get that shit oustide of you as otherwise it festers. But does Fe perceive it to be an emo attack of sorts upon group harmony? I do this and had no idea how it came across so am very interested in understanding you guys perspectives.

  2. #12
    Senior Member SpottingTrains's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I have an ENFJ friend who is pretty decent at doing this, and another who often agrees with people to their face so as not to cause waves. The former just turns on the charm and teases the person when they disagree so as to make it more light-hearted. I think that produces a more positive result in the long run than giving the impression you agree when you don't (as that can come back to bite you in the butt when they discover the truth).
    This is exactly what I do. I turn the disagreement into something funny or cuddly and just have it so that they know I don't fully agree with them.
    "That's the thing about girls. Every time they do something pretty, even if they're not much to look at, or even if they're sort of stupid, you fall half in love with them, and then you never know where the hell you are. Girls. Jesus Christ. They can drive you crazy. They really can."

  3. #13
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    Coming from the dark Fi side , please forgive if I screw it up, but is this boundary there to protect your weaknesses? Let's assume Fe sort of works to maintain (yikes) social control (sorry) in a beautiful way to balance out the Te users. By letting everyone see your emo insides, it might give them some amount of leverage to use against you later in an emo way? Thus only those, very,very close get in all the way-everyone else gets the first five floors as PP said.
    Speaking only for myself, even if it's not true, I feel very easy to destroy. If people knew half the "" moments I have that never make it to the surface, they'd understand why I don't advance myself far from my shell unless I'm going berserker venom snail on an invader. I allow free and friendly passage into a small area, but the rest is under lock and key. In my experience, Fe is like having on a shock collar, and I do my best to keep people away from the controls.


    This reminds me of the masks some of the entps mention, except it seems much more natural for you guys.
    I speak the same Fe language as ENTPs. They too are warm to a point, and wear a veneer of "open door policy". Granted they can take a lot more flak and not go down in the drink thanks to hearty Ne/Ti, but when I've been confronted with an ENTP I love deeply telling me that they love me too, I know it's a really big deal. You can see how easy to mortally harm they are underneath all that flash and toughness.

    Fe must protect itself.

    that-bolded-is fascinating. When proteo had a comment on a previous thread she mentioned her boss blurting out crap like "it's killing my soul". Emo dumping I think is a good term to apply. Fi does it to clean house and get that shit oustide of you as otherwise it festers. But does Fe perceive it to be an emo attack of sorts upon group harmony? I do this and had no idea how it came across so am very interested in understanding you guys perspectives.
    No no, Fi isn't the culprit, nor is a good soul-cleansing confession. What I meant was a hostile passive or aggressive strangulation of the flow of things by some parasitic person who can't handle their feelings without making every one pay for it. It's like a child sitting on all the toys so that the other kids can't play.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpottingTrains View Post
    This is exactly what I do. I turn the disagreement into something funny or cuddly and just have it so that they know I don't fully agree with them.
    Springtime for Hitler? lol

    I use humor to pull the teeth out of a touchy subject. I want to hear what my loved one is really thinking and feeling, but sometimes it's just hard to hear for both parties and some levity makes the moment bearable. A spoon full of sugar and all that. My friends call me to bounce ideas and to unburden themselves, but also "I broke up with my boyfriend/girlfriend, make me laugh about what total clownshoes they were". I'll start off on a silly rant about the weird shape of their heads, or their penchant for bad grammar or Michael Bolton. Just something silly to make the tears go away.

  4. #14
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    Coming from the dark Fi side , please forgive if I screw it up, but is this boundary there to protect your weaknesses? Let's assume Fe sort of works to maintain (yikes) social control (sorry) in a beautiful way to balance out the Te users. By letting everyone see your emo insides, it might give them some amount of leverage to use against you later in an emo way? Thus only those, very,very close get in all the way-everyone else gets the first five floors as PP said.
    See this is where I doubt it's a Fe specific thing. Of course the boundary is there to protect myself...I wouldn't even say it was a weakness, it's just knowing who I feel I can reveal myself to and who I can't. Isn't that just the wisdom of dealing with people though? I feel mostly transparent to people in my inner circle and people go in concentric circles beyond that (see sig). I'll only do a emo drop shipment to those I know, know, know know me and I know them. Recently one of my friends said to me he felt ashamed about the circumstances of his birth...that his mother was cheating with a married man and he is the result of that infidelity and he's carried a feeling of shame and worthlessness because of that. I'd say that was an emo drop and I'd be stunned if some person on the outer edges of my concentric circle dropped that on me suddenly. I feel like that's a deeply personal thing to say and I'd only be able to respond adequately and not in some shim-shammy, superficial "oh you're a wonderful person, don't think that about yourself!!" way if I had more of an intimate connection with the person. And no, I wouldn't want that kind of info out and about generally because it is quite possible some person would throw that in my face or have no clue what a powerful piece of information they were given. To treat it casually or offhandedly would be very hurtful to me. I think I'm pretty good at assessing a person's emotional aptitude and I guess (well not guess, know, lol) that since I consider myself fairly high level I want someone who is high level as well. So that disqualifies a lot of people. It's not Fe social control; Fe has interiority...it's me using my Fe on me.

    There are different levels of security clearances available when you start dealing with me on a more personal and intimate level. Maybe the social control comes in because I try very hard to not let people know what there clearance level is because I feel like it creates problems. Like I said earlier in the thread, what do you do if you like someone but you just want them to be a casual friend you hang out with a few times a month, have a good time, and both go your own separate ways until next time? What do you do if you know someone likes you romantically and you don't reciprocate but you do like them as a friend and would like to continue knowing them? Either you tell them exactly where they stand, which typically ends with hurt feelings or you just let them float out there. I'd rather people assume that they have a higher level if I like them, but I know they won't be moving. But once, again I don't think this is specifically Fe. I'm pretty sure given the number of "I can't tell if this person likes me or not!!!111!!" threads on the forum that most people would prefer not to have the direct confrontation because if they did there wouldn't be as much uncertainty.

    that-bolded-is fascinating. When proteo had a comment on a previous thread she mentioned her boss blurting out crap like "it's killing my soul". Emo dumping I think is a good term to apply. Fi does it to clean house and get that shit oustide of you as otherwise it festers. But does Fe perceive it to be an emo attack of sorts upon group harmony? I do this and had no idea how it came across so am very interested in understanding you guys perspectives.
    This relates to my previous comment, if I don't feel like I'm equipped to handle the emo dump (which I'm not opposed to really, I know sometimes people just need to vent and it's nothing more) then it makes me feel uncomfortable it upsets my personal harmony and depending on the severity of the bomb, group harmony. Another great example happened today! Y'all I couldn't make this stuff up. I was sitting in my friend's office talking and one of the INFPs comes in quite dramatically swings in the door and says, "I made a doctor's appointment!" God bless, my INFJ friend she says, "So? What does that have to do with us? And can you say hello first next time you bust into my office like that?" While I feel that was rather lightweight, she had no clue what we were talking about, what she was interrupting and she didn't even interrupt us with something useful like she had brownies or alcohol hidden away in her desk and this is fairly consistent behavior from her.

    Oh, wait what's the difference between an emo dump and venting (see above )? If it's something hardcore like "My marriage is failing and I think I we may get divorced" what do I say to that? That is such a complex situation I'd be afraid to touch it with a 40-foot pole. I have no problem with being a listening ear but I know when I'm in over my head.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #15
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    See this is where I doubt it's a Fe specific thing. Of course the boundary is there to protect myself...I wouldn't even say it was a weakness, it's just knowing who I feel I can reveal myself to and who I can't. Isn't that just the wisdom of dealing with people though? I feel mostly transparent to people in my inner circle and people go in concentric circles beyond that (see sig). I'll only do a emo drop shipment to those I know, know, know know me and I know them. Recently one of my friends said to me he felt ashamed about the circumstances of his birth...that his mother was cheating with a married man and he is the result of that infidelity and he's carried a feeling of shame and worthlessness because of that. I'd say that was an emo drop and I'd be stunned if some person on the outer edges of my concentric circle dropped that on me suddenly. .
    I think enfps are well known for being far too trusting and open. Fi does not equip us well with the above boundaries or ability to understand who to share and who to not share with. So we share too much with most people. I think you captured how this info could later be used against you, something I dont think enfps always even grasp. Most of us would never, ever use emo against another person-we feel the pain we inflict, via mirrors-so it isnt obvious that we need to keep it concealed, until we get burned a few times. Thus we tell you things you never, ever wanted to know.

    Perhaps part of the reason you are uncomfortable knowing this info is it makes you feel like you should reprocicate, even though you never asked to become Fe linked to this person in the first place? We just shot off at the mouth and then you are left with an uncomfortable decsion regarding where in the concentric rings, this particular relationship resides, and what do you actually owe us?

    I cant help but draw an analogy to a herd of animals where the injured animal will feign health, in order to not be identified by predators as the weakest link for the first part and then reciprocal relationships amoung members of the group for the second part.


    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    This relates to my previous comment, if I don't feel like I'm equipped to handle the emo dump (which I'm not opposed to really, I know sometimes people just need to vent and it's nothing more) then it makes me feel uncomfortable it upsets my personal harmony and depending on the severity of the bomb, group harmony. Another great example happened today! Y'all I couldn't make this stuff up. I was sitting in my friend's office talking and one of the INFPs comes in quite dramatically swings in the door and says, "I made a doctor's appointment!" God bless, my INFJ friend she says, "So? What does that have to do with us? And can you say hello first next time you bust into my office like that?" While I feel that was rather lightweight, she had no clue what we were talking about, what she was interrupting and she didn't even interrupt us with something useful like she had brownies or alcohol hidden away in her desk and this is fairly consistent behavior from her.

    Oh, wait what's the difference between an emo dump and venting (see above )? If it's something hardcore like "My marriage is failing and I think I we may get divorced" what do I say to that? That is such a complex situation I'd be afraid to touch it with a 40-foot pole. I have no problem with being a listening ear but I know when I'm in over my head.
    This will be abstract but I much like your rings. I bet an emo dump is dependent upon the Fe user you are working with. It is defined as any act which intrudes further into the layers of rings than the Fe user was comfortable with you moving.

    This means an Fi user would need to learn to stop and consciously evaluate each Fe user, think about thier level of intimacy with that person, and then decide what to share.

    Also keep in mind, Fi doesnt always want a solution, often we are grinding away at that ourselves-instead we are looking for a place to puke all the Fi crap back out into, so it doesnt eat our own brain.

    Also this ladies behavior ties back into the self centric Fi viewpoint again-less emo dump and more not considering that a reciprocal social exchange was already underway that was interrupted rudely by her out burst.

    Why is Fi self centric........

  6. #16
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Fe dom identify with the value judgments of others. enfjs are in a more precarious place bc they see so many possibilities within this framework and have more trouble privileging specific and grounding attachments. they are least in touch with their own introverted values (Ti), but they are fantastically equipped to improve and promote beneficial and positive value judgment and its EXPRESSION in others.

    yet they are J, so they are really localized in their perceptions. they are introverted perceivers so tons of info gets exhausting for them, skipping around too much requires soooo much energy trying to continually find the right map for each moment of travel. why enfjs are notoriously secretive, like jonathan richman who is super equipped at disarming others with the charm, knowing how to work the details, but not having a great sense of his overarching overall big picture feel for the world and himself in it. people pushing in on enfjs is exhausting bc it becomes highly discombobulating as it does for all introverted perceivers. we are extremely detail-oriented in arranging webs of information so that it can be easily recognized in the future, and our sensitivity to particular values is in the act of recognizing patterns more so than having pre-weighed pre-meditated specific relationality in mind.

    enfjs need healthy Se to give them some right-brained big picture flow. something to ride and get a step-back panoramic view of the narrative of events and what basically fits where and become absorbed in a wider ranging perceptual process than the narrowly focused Ni. getting in the moment more fosters broader perceptions, more connections between the details, and more acceptance of one's place within the world as a result.

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