[MBTI General] INFJs Attempting to Understand ENTPs Behavior

[Winds of Thor]

Shoot!

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

 

[Skyward]

This is the time in the movie theatre where the ads just loop and you fall asleep, thus missing half the movie


I havent really had any ENTP problems that weren't based off of my internal reactions to them. Tertiary Fe gives me very flakey vibes no matter how sincere it is, and what's more annoying is that I cant beat off the feeling with logic so I avoid them.

 

[Fidelia]

Haven't had sufficient interaction to have strong feelings about it.

My impressions so far:

- Great conversationalists, especially when mature and well balanced.
- Entrepreneurs that have great ideas and what it takes to carry them out, but who should have people in line to take over once they've conquered the main challenges and move on to the next project.
- Great at creating their own jobs and talking people into hiring them.
- Best if left unleashed to do what they need to do.
- Excellent sense of humour. Kind of flirty in a non-serious way.
- Inexplicable appreciation for INFJs.
- Travellers
- Adventuresome cooks if they choose to pursue it.

Haven't fought with one yet, so can't tell you much else.

So since I don't know any really well:

1. What upsets them and what are the symptoms? What is the best course of action for the offender to take when they are upset?

2. How would you best get close to one? Do they have a system of gates or layers like INFJs or is it a different security system altogether?

3. What makes them happiest?

4. What do they value most in a friend?

 

[Synarch]

Haven't had sufficient interaction to have strong feelings about it.

My impressions so far:

- Great conversationalists, especially when mature and well balanced.
- Entrepreneurs that have great ideas and what it takes to carry them out, but who should have people in line to take over once they've conquered the main challenges and move on to the next project.
- Great at creating their own jobs and talking people into hiring them.
- Best if left unleashed to do what they need to do.
- Excellent sense of humour. Kind of flirty in a non-serious way.
- Inexplicable appreciation for INFJs.
- Travellers
- Adventuresome cooks if they choose to pursue it.

Haven't fought with one yet, so can't tell you much else.

Hahaha. You guys are hilarious. I love my INFJ girlfriend and all my INFJ friends and all the INFJ's I know here. I feel their subtle influence and it's pleasant. They seem to genuinely concerned and interested and accepting. And very deep and intelligent. It's very refreshing since I don't connect with many other types in the same way. INFJ people can often present the other side of the story that I cannot see on my own.

 

[Fidelia]

In what way do they present the other side of the story for you? Is it drawing the connections between the facts to the people they impact, or is it something different than that?

Do you approach them, or do they find you?

What areas do you overlap with them and where are your sources of conflict? And are ALL of you dating INFJs or what?

 

[Synarch]

So since I don't know any really well:

1. What upsets them and what are the symptoms? What is the best course of action for the offender to take when they are upset?

2. How would you best get close to one? Do they have a system of gates or layers like INFJs or is it a different security system altogether?

3. What makes them happiest?

4. What do they value most in a friend?

You edited. I saw that.

1. Hm. I get anxious easy. I am always waiting for bad shit to happen. I am like the rodent who lives in the shadow of the owl. Always waiting for the owl. I twitch my whiskers a lot and look behind me. I get upset by people rejecting me or being inconsistent. Best course is to be genuine and kind.

2. Best get close to one? Keep things light. Be accepting. Be friendly without pushiness. Listen and let us talk and be interested.

3. I am happiest when my mind drops away. I love the feeling I get when I am engaged in something that makes me forget myself.

4. I value understanding and acceptance. All my closest friends have been consistent in their inexplicable appreciation for who I am. Not who I try to appear to be.

 

[Synarch]

In what way do they present the other side of the story for you? Is it drawing the connections between the facts to the people they impact, or is it something different than that?

They seem to be very brave about caring for individual people and this is something I am not brave about. This courage to love seems to give them insights that I do not get on my own, but since I love humanity from a wider, more broad perspective, their insights make sense immediately.

 

[Synarch]

Do you approach them, or do they find you?

What areas do you overlap with them and where are your sources of conflict? And are ALL of you dating INFJs or what?

You edited again.

What area do I overlap with them? I think both types are curious and fun loving. I also think both types are very romantic in the sense of imbuing reality with significance. Both types desperately want understanding.

Sources of conflict? Communication styles, issues of space. I also need lots of affirmation as I tend to forget what has already happened. And I take the pulse of relationships a lot since I expect things to get messed up somehow. I think both types can be so in their head that they can lose track of each other sometimes. That can be problematic.

I think ENTP's date a lot of other types. It seems like the ENTP females don't go for the male INFJ's much.

 

[Fidelia]

Hmmm, add observant to that list...

1.* Interesting - I am sort of pessimistic in a general sense but optimistic in a personal sense.* We're flipsides.* However we both value consistency and acceptance.*

2.* I think we're generally good at all that.* I like having time to think things over, so am not generally too pushing about speeding it all up.

3.* Glad when your mind drops away because of the aforementioned owl-fearing twichiness, or because it is engaged in so many things at once?*

4.* Do you try to appear different than who you are?* I notice a lot of Ts put on a rather brave, unshakeable facade (see the Iceman and the Child thread from awhile ago), but I'm not sure if it applies to you folks or not.

As far as the second post under that one, which for some reason this window will not allow me to quote without abondoning this message, again it appears we are flipsides.

I think we are good generally at zooming in on details and getting to know lots about a chunk of information that catches our interest. I am guessing that maybe you people are good at zooming out and seeing the super big picture, which means that we provide insight for each other. Would that be accurate?

 

[Fidelia]

Nope, INFJ men would be way to wimpy for an ENTP woman.

Space issues as in you need more than we do? I could see that. Would you be likely to get absorbed in your work?

You communicate more directly and are blunter. I'm guessing we'd seem a little too meandering in our communication. And maybe our need for processing time and revisiting subjects might throw you off. Would you express appreciation for the INFJ easily or do you tend to be critical? Anything else as far as communication style?

What do you mean you need affirmation as you tend to forget what already happened? You mean like affirmation that's already happened? In what form is affirmation most satisfying and appreciated?

I would think that pulse taking would be most appreciated by the INFJ, as we do the same thing ourselves. I don't think there's a sense of pessimism or impending doom, but silence is often imagined as the worst case scenario causing panic. If there's no response, clinginess may ensue in an attempt to re-establish home base before venturing out again.

Is there a specific subtype of INFJs they like? Each seem fairly different...

 

[Synarch]

Hmmm, add observant to that list...

1.* Interesting - I am sort of pessimistic in a general sense but optimistic in a personal sense.* We're flipsides.* However we both value consistency and acceptance.*

I would say I am pessimistic in a general sense, but anything outside my personal sphere tends not to bother me. At a long enough time line, we're all dead anyway. I do, however, believe in progress. Inexorable, unstoppable evolution in the mass despite our failings as a race. Life adapts. Life is strong. Life trends from simple to complex and back again. There is some organizational principle at work in the world. I do not understand why yet.

2.* I think we're generally good at all that.* I like having time to think things over, so am not generally too pushing about speeding it all up.

I just don't like being forced, so rushing me doesn't work. I dig in my heels.

3.* Glad when your mind drops away because of the aforementioned owl-fearing twichiness, or because it is engaged in so many things at once?*

When I can be fully in the moment all anxiety drops away. No big questions, no seeking, no twitchiness. Just presence. Being. Unselfconsciously existing in concert with the world. A reality I tend to believe in as a fundamental anchoring principle.

4.* Do you try to appear different than who you are?* I notice a lot of Ts put on a rather brave, unshakeable facade (see the Iceman and the Child thread from awhile ago), but I'm not sure if it applies to you folks or not.

I want to be myself, but protected. Unassailable. Like a polished mirror I can hide behind and observe.

I think we are good generally at zooming in on details and getting to know lots about a chunk of information that catches our interest. I am guessing that maybe you people are good at zooming out and seeing the super big picture, which means that we provide insight for each other. Would that be accurate?

I almost only think in the big picture. This is why I can be indifferent to my surroundings. I think about time and existence and change and patterns and how things could develop. I am not so much interested in the details. I love ideas and their implications. I like to spend time thinking about what could happen, or what might have happened. This is why I like both history and new technology. It's the same story from two different perspectives.

Nope, INFJ men would be way to wimpy for an ENTP woman.

Space issues as in you need more than we do? I could see that. Would you be likely to get absorbed in your work?

When two people connect well, it's just hard to coordinate sometimes. My moods are often very capricious as well and I have a hard time not pushing when I want something.

You communicate more directly and are blunter. I'm guessing we'd seem a little too meandering in our communication. And maybe our need for processing time and revisiting subjects might throw you off. Would you express appreciation for the INFJ easily or do you tend to be critical? Anything else as far as communication style?

This is probably one of the biggest differences. INFJ's seem to go off and think things over and come back to revisit them and resolve things. My girlfriend does this all the time, long after I have forgotten everything. I seem to have the same problems over and over with questionable resolution. The INFJ approach is funny and I like to think about how they go off and deep think about things. It is very foreign to me, but has obvious benefits.

What do you mean you need affirmation as you tend to forget what already happened? You mean like affirmation that's already happened? In what form is affirmation most satisfying and appreciated?

Yeah, I forget all the nice affirming that takes place when you are near someone. Then the further I get from it, the more it seems like something that happened to someone else, not me. I like to be near the people I love. Just being able to read their faces and feel cared for.

Is there a specific subtype of INFJs they like? Each seem fairly different...

My close INFJ friends and loved ones seem to have strong Ti. They seem very comfortable with logical things and technology.

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

1. What upsets them and what are the symptoms? What is the best course of action for the offender to take when they are upset?

You'd know the symptoms better than I would.

There's a border dividing good-humored mockery and disrespect, and my signals begin flaring when it's crossed. Defense shield up, etc

Rejection.

Not feeling a true connection to people / feeling like the connection is a fraud / having my doubts confirmed

Other things that aren't coming to me.

When I'm upset, sincere caring is good. Or a slap of reality.

2. How would you best get close to one? Do they have a system of gates or layers like INFJs or is it a different security system altogether?

Joking, listening, being interesting, not trying to change me into what I don't want to be but wanting me to be the best I can be.

There is a system of gates, but there's only one that matters.

3. What makes them happiest?

Too much! So much!

4. What do they value most in a friend?

See: "how would you best get close to one."

 

[Fidelia]

In the other thread just now, I noticed you characterized yourself as ENTPs as one of the most insensitive types? How is that? And if acceptance is super important to you, is it easy or difficult for you to reciprocate?

 

[Synarch]

In the other thread just now, I noticed you characterized yourself as ENTPs as one of the most insensitive types? How is that? And if acceptance is super important to you, is it easy or difficult for you to reciprocate?

We move too fast. Too stuck in our own heads. Too self-absorbed to see how others feel until we stop and think about it. And since rarely stop to think or do anything else, it makes us insensitive. Accepting is easy for me. I am very non-judgmental. Trusting is harder.

 

[Fidelia]

So you can see reactions if you remember to look, but it just isn't an automatic response if you aren't focussing on that at the time?

I am curious and outwardly tolerant, but am measuring what people say against what I think about it. I pick the people I trust carefully, but find it easy to trust them.

What makes trusting difficult for you? Is it relinquishing control? Is it a sense of impending badness and wanting to insure against loss?

What makes you come out of your own head?

 

[Synarch]

So you can see reactions if you remember to look, but it just isn't an automatic response if you aren't focussing on that at the time?

Right. I have to try hard to pay attention to subtle things, which are always hard for me to spot. That's why I do better in groups. More input. I'll ride the coattails of more sensitive people and apply my more direct Fe.

I also expect people to understand that I care for them until further notice. I have to remember to be attentive because I know this is important to maintaining relationships. I am pretty bad at maintenance sometimes, but it helps if I am around physically since I tend to show my love spontaneously.

I am curious and outwardly tolerant, but am measuring what people say against what I think about it. I pick the people I trust carefully, but find it easy to trust them.

What makes you come out of your own head?

I find it easy to pick people, but only trust a few of these. Opposite approach.

Hmm.. what makes me come out of my own head? Talking to someone one on one. Being close.

 

[Fidelia]

Ooh and I do worse in groups because there are two many people's reactions to keep track and and measure what I say against how they'll react to it and the filters slow everything down so that I've missed the chance to say whatever I meant to. Then I seem to be disinterested because I'm not participating.

Are you a touchy feely sort of person in how you would show love or how would it be expressed most often?

I've never understood just alerting someone if your feelings for them have changed. This leaves the recipient with a constant feeling of impending doom because there is no chance to discuss, clarify or attempt to change your mind once the pronouncement is made. This is why they get all panickey when your love isn't reaffirmed semi-regularly and they cannot see your thought processes and you are not spending time with them. They will immediately rush to the worst case scenario: X doesn't voluntarily spend time with me. I have no idea what they're thinking and when what I'm thinking is negative I tend to not say it right away. Therefore, they are contemplating negative thoughts about me and do not need my presence in their day. It's almost over and I won't be able to do anything about it! This could so easily be avoided by either a quick peek into your thought processes from time to time (ie: Oh! That's all it is - absorbed by other thoughts at the moment) and also by setting up expected occasions to emerge from your head so they can take the pulse and be assured all is well.

On the other hand, I can completely see the flip side that you shouldn't keep having to tell someone something that you have already assured them is true and will remain true.

How do you like to be reassured of INFJ feelings for you or do you assume all is well unless otherwise notified? Also in what way do you take the pulse of your relationships frequently?

How does someone get to talk one on one with you when you are away in your own head? Is there a doorbell we should know about to ring?

 

[Synarch]

Are you a touchy feely sort of person in how you would show love or how would it be expressed most often?

Very touchy. I like hugging the people I love. Hanging on them if I can. Very casual. Around my close friends I will walk around in my underwear. This sort of intimacy is bonding.

I've never understood just alerting someone if your feelings for them have changed. This leaves the recipient with a constant feeling of impending doom because there is no chance to discuss, clarify or attempt to change your mind once the pronouncement is made. This is why they get all panickey when your love isn't reaffirmed semi-regularly and they cannot see your thought processes and you are not spending time with them. They will immediately rush to the worst case scenario: X doesn't voluntarily spend time with me. I have no idea what they're thinking and when what I'm thinking is negative I tend to not say it right away. Therefore, they are contemplating negative thoughts about me and do not need my presence in their day. It's almost over and I won't be able to do anything about it! This could so easily be avoided by either a quick peek into your thought processes from time to time (ie: Oh! That's all it is - absorbed by other thoughts at the moment) and also by setting up expected occasions to emerge from your head so they can take the pulse and be assured all is well.

Yeah, honestly, people in relationships should spend some good focused time on each other. This is harder for me if I'm under stress since all I want to do then is avoid and turtle up.

On the other hand, I can completely see the flip side that you shouldn't keep having to tell someone something that you have already assured them is true and will remain true.

How do you like to be reassured of INFJ feelings for you or do you assume all is well unless otherwise notified? Also in what way do you take the pulse of your relationships frequently?

I become difficult (not on purpose) and then if they're still patient with me I know they really care. Annoying isn't it? I guess I check in a lot. Ask questions.

How does someone get to talk one on one with you when you are away in your own head? Is there a doorbell we should know about to ring?

That's hard. Face to face or one on one on the phone away from distraction is best otherwise I might be tempted to multi-task if I'm stressed and in a manic state.

 

[Fidelia]

Turtle-ing is the worst! Nothing scares me more and makes me more difficult and annoying to be near. Guess it makes me feel like anything could happen and I'd be totally blindsided so I'd better get ready for awfulness. That adds more stress and the turtle up feedback loop just grows. What makes you need to turtle? Is it not wanting to burden other people? Needing time to figure out a solution alone? Protection from others seeing you vulnerable? This was a huge problem in my last relationship...

How do you become difficult? Argumentative? Grouchy? Withdrawn? Contrary? Do you realize when you are doing it? What does it feel like when you start getting that way?

I find men in general are more tempted to multitask, but especially Ts when stressed and manic. But how do people get you face to face or one on one on the phone if you are all locked away in your head?

I like people close to me who are touchy, even though I am only touchy in certain regards. I usually like that kind of comfort though.