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  1. #61
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    for some reason this makes me think of the royal tenenbaums scene when geno is giving danny glover the treatment. "you wanna talk jive, let's talk jive."

    now let's hear what you're actually thinking in the middle of that ellipsis.
    I like and respect your approach. Cute.

    However, I did not understand a word of what you said in that last post. And I think it would be challenging for me, someone who says what she means, to have someone come and assume (or interpret, in your words) an entire scenario based on a few words. It's unnerving and disconcerting and I feel like I would have to walk on eggshells, lest words be put into my mouth. I'm sure it would be the same, in reverse, for the poor INFJ man who got stuck with me. I'm sure he's always be wondering what I *really* meant, even though I say what I really mean. Do you know what I mean?

    I can't speak for what Synarch and Fidelia meant, but I personally can't be with a man who can't take a joke. Someone who is morose all the time - not to be confused with serious. They are not the same. I am always serious, but I am optimistic, cheerful and light hearted. Many people who are ill-tempered call themselves serious when they are really just whiny complainers. It seems like the NF men in general call themselves "serious" but really just have a propensity for whiny, complaining, morose and sullen temperaments that I personally can't have infecting my home and my brain. (of course, I don't mean this for *all* NF men, only unhealthy blah blah blah)

    A good barometer: If I snap at you to shut up so I can think, would you cry or withdraw? If yes, keep on moving. If no, and you retort back with a comically insulting sentence letting me know that you didn't appreciate my tone but are not going to start a war about it, then we may have a chance. Especially if you add something about how it's impossible for me to think and chew gum at the same time. Something to make me laugh or to lighten the mood. Not everything needs to end in a big discussion about the state of our relationship. Because I say stupid shit all the time. I try to temper it, but in an intimate relationship, I may not always want to be censoring myself. If I can't just speak sometimes, then I won't speak ever.

    If you can let things go when they are done, fine. If you harbor resentments, keep walking.

    But about your post specifically: I need you to clarify what you meant by "extroverted mediocrity". Just for shits and giggles, really. I think I need to use this phrase more often but I want to know what it means first.

    Thank you for being open and receptive to hearing what I have to say.

  2. #62
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    synarch, i am guessing you are an enneagram 4?

    one of my best friends is an entp 4w3. we relate on the 4 shit very much.

    I'm female and 7 / sexual variant. I don't know what that wing business even means, so I can't be more specific than that.

    But in this thread, I identify with a lot of what Synarch has said and less of what Jenocyde has said.

    I am attracted to male INFJs (not more than other types, but they're in the bundle), and I don't think they're wimpy.

  3. #63
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I'm 7w8, sexual. And I don't think INFJ men are wimpy, just that we communicate differently.

  4. #64
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I'm 7w8, sexual. And I don't think INFJ men are wimpy, just that we communicate differently.
    How about INFJ women?

  5. #65
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    extraverted mediocrity = socially meaningless existence, irrelevancy, no matter what goes on in said person's inner world, ideas, etc

    your post and some of your others strike me as inferior F. perceiving F to be a very real and dangerous threat to your autonomy. that the maintenance of good F relations is an unreasonable requirement. my intj has snapped at me a time or two, but she apologized. i do the same when i snap, or i am not only a hypocrite, i'm a jackass and negligent to her feelings.

    if we were both T types, we probably wouldn't give a fuck. and that's fine, but most F types are going to perceive these moments in a negative way, it gets into their holistic judgment of a situation and pollutes it with negativity. they get better as they mature in terms of their ability to wield their own T effectivity, but overall, they are still F first and foremost.

    Because I say stupid shit all the time. I try to temper it, but in an intimate relationship, I may not always want to be censoring myself. If I can't just speak sometimes, then I won't speak ever.
    to me, this seems more unreasonable than being put off by an intimate snapping at you. we can move on, and we desire very much to learn how others feel, what they desire, etc, so that we can alter our own behaviors to promote harmony when simple solutions are possible. we expect the same in return, so if WE have to walk on eggshells around YOU, what sense does this make? my intj is fucking awesome at helping me see this. granted, she is a bit more mature than i am and more generous, but she inspires me to learn from her, to be less rigid and to solve problems in a mature way.

    And I think it would be challenging for me, someone who says what she means, to have someone come and assume (or interpret, in your words) an entire scenario based on a few words. It's unnerving and disconcerting and I feel like I would have to walk on eggshells, lest words be put into my mouth. I'm sure it would be the same, in reverse, for the poor INFJ man who got stuck with me. I'm sure he's always be wondering what I *really* meant, even though I say what I really mean. Do you know what I mean?
    you are very T. you say things to reach an objective. to effect something causally.

    you say things as if they have no additional meanings but one singular message. f types do not operate in this way. they have a sense of the entire web and do not privilege specific sequential linear relationships. it associates with many things, understanding the how and the why. they relate in a more total and complete way. (it can feel heavy, yes, but when it feels light, it feels lighter than air)

    I can't speak for what Synarch and Fidelia meant, but I personally can't be with a man who can't take a joke. Someone who is morose all the time - not to be confused with serious. They are not the same. I am always serious, but I am optimistic, cheerful and light hearted. Many people who are ill-tempered call themselves serious when they are really just whiny complainers. It seems like the NF men in general call themselves "serious" but really just have a propensity for whiny, complaining, morose and sullen temperaments that I personally can't have infecting my home and my brain. (of course, I don't mean this for *all* NF men, only unhealthy blah blah blah)
    this is a perfect example. to an f male, your disclaimer is half-assed and as such unnecessary. it shows that you have nothing invested in it, are just going through the motions, etc. you are just preparing for the next round of argument. my impression is that you are speaking out of feeling as much as much as i am, your sense of how they negatively affect and limit you. your overall approach right now is emotional more so than T, ie how to effect an improved situation/communication. instead you're in an anti-F rant inspired by your F. blowing off steam.

    and yes, on the whole, f males get embarrassed way easier than t males. they are more aware of how others perceive/relate to them.

    A good barometer: If I snap at you to shut up so I can think, would you cry or withdraw? If yes, keep on moving. If no, and you retort back with a comically insulting sentence letting me know that you didn't appreciate my tone but are not going to start a war about it, then we may have a chance. Especially if you add something about how it's impossible for me to think and chew gum at the same time. Something to make me laugh or to lighten the mood. Not everything needs to end in a big discussion about the state of our relationship.
    you should be with a T. they often love the thrill of the game enough to disregard what it says about the way they relate to each other in individual moments. they take the temperature far less often and rely more so on actions that express commitment rather than on their sense of complete communication and connection.

    Thank you for being open and receptive to hearing what I have to say.
    +1

  6. #66
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    How about INFJ women?
    To put it another way, Syn and Fidelia suggested that INFJ men are not compatible with ENTP women due to their supposed wimpiness. I can neither deny nor confirm that, only state the problems that I foresee based on my limited sample size, and also lumping NF men together as a whole. And also based on what I saw in State's response.

    In practice, I have found the most thoughtful, thought-provoking and stimulating conversations to be with INFJs. I am very fond of you specifically, and you generally.

    I have no idea how a romantic relationship would play out with me and the men, which is why I posed that barometer. It's true that there are different communication styles, but every challenge has a solution and I am extremely challenge/solution driven. I just want to know if the INFJ guys are, too. I can see how an NF man could appear wimpy and an NT woman could appear aggressive, but appearances aren't everything.

    As far as the women specifically, I want to steal you all away and live remotely and find a way to make our own babies. I love you all.

  7. #67
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Scratch that, I got my answer. It won't work.

  8. #68
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    To put it another way, Syn and Fidelia suggested that INFJ men are not compatible with ENTP women due to their supposed wimpiness. I can neither deny nor confirm that, only state the problems that I foresee based on my limited sample size, and also lumping NF men together as a whole. And also based on what I saw in State's response.

    In practice, I have found the most thoughtful, thought-provoking and stimulating conversations to be with INFJs. I am very fond of you specifically, and you generally.

    I have no idea how a romantic relationship would play out with me and the men, which is why I posed that barometer. It's true that there are different communication styles, but every challenge has a solution and I am extremely challenge/solution driven. I just want to know if the INFJ guys are, too. I can see how an NF man could appear wimpy and an NT woman could appear aggressive, but appearances aren't everything.

    As far as the women specifically, I want to steal you all away and live remotely and find a way to make our own babies. I love you all.
    mmmmm. and i'm fighting the urge to make this my new sig.
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  9. #69
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    A good barometer: If I snap at you to shut up so I can think, would you cry or withdraw? If yes, keep on moving.

    I never snap at anyone unless the person has gone much too far. But I am direct, which can cause the same reaction. And I like to joke, which can also cause that reaction.


    I have a lot of experience dealing with people who do the crying/withdrawing thing, so I've learned to tolerate different levels of it. Drama queens are mentally X-ed and passed over. But people who are a little sensitive? I'd rather take on the challenge of making things work.


    Some of the more sensitive men I know appreciate my patience. I get that a lot: that I'm patient.

  10. #70
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    State:

    Why does communication have to be one or the other, or better or worse? If I snap, grant me a pass if you see I'm stressed. If you snap, I'll do the same. No one should have to walk on eggshells OR be constantly apologizing, is what I am saying. And I don't mean snap in anger. I just mean a short, terse response if I'm mentally occupied.

    Telling me I have nothing invested in something, you assuming my mental state, is exactly what I meant the first time when I said that it wouldn't work. You asked me to explain and now I kind of wish I never did. Because now, according to you I am emotional and on an anti-F rant? You have got to be kidding me...

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