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  1. #41
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Hmm, since I suspect this thread is mostly for you, I'll address your post as others have.
    I actually started this thread with her in mind and with ENTPs in mind. A lot of the ENTPs I've talked to and associated with on this forum are wary of Fi and don't understand it or trust it. I figured they'd be attacking this thread by now, I'm actually surprised.

    Fidelia- Well yeah talking about stuff makes ideas come about. My process could be similar to that of House's, I have my idea totally formulated and clear in my head normally and I express it. Then with people's reactions and things that they say I add on to that and get more ideas. This is Ne at work, that's basically Ne 101.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  2. #42
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    I actually started this thread with her in mind and with ENTPs in mind. A lot of the ENTPs I've talked to and associated with on this forum are wary of Fi and don't understand it or trust it. I figured they'd be attacking this thread by now, I'm actually surprised.
    Yeah it's an odd thing with ENTPs. Of all the people I consistently like, they tend to be the ones who like me the least. I'm not sure why that is.

  3. #43
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Now, Mr JJJ, we are getting somewhere! Thanks ever so much for the comprehensive peek into your head!

    As far as the last point where examples were requested by both you and BC goes, I am thinking specifically of a thread about Fe vs Fi and going to visit a sick friend. In my recollection, the sick person happened to be a Fe user who could not understand why the Fi user would not choose to visit. The Fi people argued vehemently that 1) It might make them uncomfortable 2) It's not fair for the Fe person to cohearse them into something they don't want to do 3) They'll show their love in their own way and that it's hardly a freely offered act of kindness if it's something expected of them by the Fe user. They also suggested that it might make the sick person uncomfortable or inconvenience them to be visited at that time because that is how they would feel personally if they were the sicky. I think that while no one wants to feel expected to do something they'd rather not, sometimes you have to give love in the way the other person wishes to receive it instead of the way that you find most instinctive to give. You should be expected to read minds, nor change who you are fundamentally, but what would it really hurt to go take the person some soup if it matters so blamed much to them? In the same way, I believe the Fe person should not impose their presence on the Fi person if they wish to be left alone, even though it might seem horribly uncaring and cold and even unpleasant to the Fe person to do so.

    I do suspect that this thread was created for me out of issues brought up in the INFJ Pitfalls in Communication thread. However, I have the sneaking suspicion of late that I may be monopolizing conversations here and don't wish to wear out my welcome even though I have lots of questions. Please feel free to jump in, other people!

  4. #44
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    I actually started this thread with her in mind and with ENTPs in mind. A lot of the ENTPs I've talked to and associated with on this forum are wary of Fi and don't understand it or trust it. I figured they'd be attacking this thread by now, I'm actually surprised.
    I don't understand it. But, this also means it doesn't bother me.

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Yeah it's an odd thing with ENTPs. Of all the people I consistently like, they tend to be the ones who like me the least. I'm not sure why that is.
    I have had a few INFP friends. They are often very creative and deep. Problem is, I have a very hard time relating to their sensitivity and I am afraid of pissing them off! INFP's can be so damn touchy that it makes me fear them. Ironic that one of the most insensitive types (ENTP), can be intimidated by the uber-sensitive INFP's. They just seem so certain about how things make them feel that...how could I argue with that??

    (I admire INFP's in case that was not clear)
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    So, for example, if you were thinking about something, you wouldn't find it as needful to have another person to bounce ideas off of to clarify or ignite your own thoughts?
    it gets tiring. thinking of a reply. checking if this or that makes sense; everything has to be perfect, see.

    when you're by yourself you can do anything you want-- lalalala go crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Would they want someone to come around if they were sick or feeling down or would they prefer their own space at that time?
    Sick/tired/feeling down: prefer own space. plus plus plus music.

    Angry/pissed off (seldom): rant to closest friend. realize later on "gee, that wasn't much help".

    "but it's what friends do, isn't it? isn't it?"

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Would they not care quite as much about other people's reactions to their thoughts/feeling/opinions/wishes?
    defense mechanism. think: "this is awesome. too bad they just don't get it."

  6. #46
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Thank you. That's all very useful!

  7. #47

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    glad to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    In my recollection, the sick person happened to be a Fe user who could not understand why the Fi user would not choose to visit.
    honest answer: I have no idea. but i flee at the very hint of any sort of expectation aka pressure.

    also, with every expectation there is an equal an opposite potential dissatisfaction/disappointment

  8. #48
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    (I liked matilda's answers on these, but I'll give my own perspective to increase your sample-size.)

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    So, for example, if you were thinking about something, you wouldn't find it as needful to have another person to bounce ideas off of to clarify or ignite your own thoughts?
    With some things I would, but not with things which touch on deep values. For those I feel I can only really get to grips with them when I turn inward. I often find other people's perspectives can lead me off on tangents from what I'll later decide is the essence of the issue. Plus, when in conversation I tend to listen to what other people are saying rather than speaking myself, in an attempt to fully tease out their perspective. Sometimes hearing other people's thoughts do indeed offer useful and even decisive insights, but I usually still have to go away and make all the connections myself before I'll trust it. When it happens, it's more a happy bonus than something I'm counting on.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Would they want someone to come around if they were sick or feeling down or would they prefer their own space at that time?
    Hmm, tricky. I guess I'd want some indication that I wasn't totally forgotten - an indication they cared. But I'd prefer my own space at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Would they not care quite as much about other people's reactions to their thoughts/feeling/opinions/wishes?
    Sometimes the apparent lack of caring can be a defence mechanism as matilda suggested, but I agree that I dont care "quite as much" about other people's reactions to my thoughts/feeling/opinions/wishes because my values and sense of self are very independent. Which isn't to say they are exempt from persuasion and revision - they are just pretty immune to external pressures. Compared to most people anyway, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    However, I have the sneaking suspicion of late that I may be monopolizing conversations here and don't wish to wear out my welcome even though I have lots of questions.
    Pff.

  9. #49
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I have had a few INFP friends. They are often very creative and deep. Problem is, I have a very hard time relating to their sensitivity and I am afraid of pissing them off! INFP's can be so damn touchy that it makes me fear them. Ironic that one of the most insensitive types (ENTP), can be intimidated by the uber-sensitive INFP's. They just seem so certain about how things make them feel that...how could I argue with that??
    Well that sucks!

    I for one would rather ENTPs piss me off than avoid engaging with me. I'm pretty sure most INFPs would feel the same way.

  10. #50
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Excellent. Would a note or phone call be better than an actual visit when you are feeling unhappy or under the weather? Small gifts? Food items? Music to listen to? Comic books to while away your time with?

    I think you are better at sticking to your guns and thinking independently than us in some regards. And yet on the outside you appear much more open to input than I think we are.

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