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  1. #111
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    I would like to advocate for the potential power of Fi and try to explain its inner workings. I highly recommend Lenore Thomson's Personality Type in this regard.

    Fi seeks universal values. "Respect all life" is a good example. Such universal values transcend both oneself and one's culture. Also, being universal in their nature we don't need to ask other people if they agree or whatever [Fidelia, you asked about Fi needing others approvals like Fe does, or however you phrased that]. I don't need to go ask Suzy "Hey, I was wondering, 'respect all life', you think that's a good idea? No, yeah me either. So anyways I like your blouse!" Nor do we say "respect all life. Well, except for people taller than 6'2", or all life except for people with green eyes cuz we know that they just don't count." That's not universal enough. If Suzy disagrees with my "respect all life" value, I'll just think she's not particularly highly-morally-developed. But I don't think that I'm wrong because she's thinks I'm wrong, or even because my culture says I'm wrong.

    Where Fi gets tricky is each owner has their own personal values. What applies to me may not apply to Blackcat for example, and vice versa. Also, some INFP's Fi values may be very unrealistic "We should all sit in flower-filled meadows and dance and sing and write love poetry, screw capitolism you selfish bastards!" comes to mind as an example. Also, authenticity is very important to Fi. I can't stand here and say "Respect all life" and then be like "I'm bored, I'm going to go run over a cat with a lawn mower", thats not being authentic to "respect all life". Note: An INTJ classmate described engaging in such behavior to me, it earned him instant asshole/moral-scum status in my mind.

    Also, it can be VERY hard for us to pinpoint our Fi valuers, or else saying them just sounds, I don't know, odd or obvious or unilluminating or whatnot. "Its important to be a good person because it is", not really to helpful or informative or explanational huh?

    The potential mega-strength of Fi: The ability to have very evolved universal values that "lead the pack". Think "all adults should have the right to vote" leading to womens suffrage for example. "Treat all people with respect" "No one is beyond redemption", developing humanistic psychology and helping people to "achieve their full potential". The deepest levels of compassion for other people arise from the INF's. I'm not going to try to claim that Gandhi or Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. were INFP's, but focus on how they took a value or idea and "fought" for it non-violently and changed the world in the process. High emotional/moral/ethical development and manifesting it into the world. That is what we can bring to the table. Especially our "warrior" INF's, or those willing to "fight" for their values.

  2. #112
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quoting from above-mentioned book: "Extraverted Feeling encompasses what is averagely attainable in a particular social system. The goals it encourages are not transcendently fulfilling; they're collectively appropriate."

    "[Fi] bypasses structural considerations and puts human value first. Such discrimination is unquestionable illogical, but its in no way irrational. Indeed, to place human value above statistical risk isn't possible without the ability to reason."

    "[Fi] is not a substitute for Extraverted Judegement. It won't solve the analytic problems that logic and causal reasoning are designed to address, and it won't establish a basis for predictable social interactions. But, conversely, it addresses aspects of human reality that Extraverted reasoning cannot."

    "...ENFJ's are Extraverted Felling types, who act as social advocates, They help people to realize their potential in a way that society will ultimately accept. INFP's are advocates of the inner world, the values that connect us to other living beings in a fundamental way. They go where they fell needed, helping to nurture these values or to support people who have fallen through the cracks of a prevailing social system."

    "[Fi's] recognize by way of their own experience an unconditional value that links them with humanity as a whole..."

    paraphrasing: What makes Fi values confouding or irrational to others is that these values can't be "causally deduced from the objective situation"

    "[Fi dom's] are not always seen as heroic, but the cumulative effects of their actions accomplish extraordinary things."

    "Their values have no predictable reference points in law and social convention. They cut through all that to the heart of the matter"

    "Extraverted Feeling presides over social values-current ideas about how relationships in the community are best conducted. Introverted Feeling determines subjective values-convictions about how a life is best lived."


    "[INFP's] realize that being responsible to their values isn't about fighting what exists; its about building, recognizing that they can do things, want to do things, that might not even occur to others."

    "INFP's sometimes underestimate their strengths because there are so many problems in the world that can't be solved by changing people's hearts. But they shouldn't. The effects of their decisions are often incalculable, renewing people's faith in human nature."

  3. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Or from another perspective, dominant perceiving people seem to have pliable morals which may also seem like a sheer lack of integrity to a Fi-dom.
    Touche =)
    Men are like parking spaces/the good ones are always taken and the ones left are handicapped or to small.

  4. #114
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Yes I have/had certain problems with FPs since I have ENFP mother and ISFP father.

    So for my entire life I am "forced" to feel and have strong value system what has caused exactly the opposite effect. What means that this is the main reason why I have unusually low Fi for an INTJ. There is no hard feeling is the mix on both sides it is just that we are very different as people.

  5. #115
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synthetic Darkness View Post
    That's just my personal problem with DomFi's I'm someone who is very flexible I've seen that many DomFi's aren't as flexible especially when they believe something to be against their value system. There was also something that WonkaVision said on Vent about those who have a dominate judging function (Ti/Te/Fe/Fi) versus those who have a dominate percieving function (Ne/Ni/Se/Si) I supposed its pretty controversal but it made sense to me because I've noticed that those who are much more likely to judge would be someone who was DomFi than opposed to someone who was DomSe or DomNe......
    Hey, thanks for validating my theory.

    The fact that it rarely happens to me makes it all the more special!
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  6. #116
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    why does Fi always replay things back through the viewpoint of the Fi user? It is self centric. Are there paralells to the way Ti process data for primary Ti users here?
    This is true of Ti, to a degree, just the criteria is different. You can use Einstein, for example. His reluctance to accept Quantum Mechanics, and the existence of an indeterminate universe, could possibly be explained by the theory of QM not adhering to his Ti's subjective principles of what he thought a fundamental theory should be. Hence, his obsession to create a field theory [remember, he also loved the concept of fields in the first place, so he was naturally inclined to explain and judge data using that principle].

    Ti always runs data through checks against those internal principles, however the difference is that they're typically impersonal and detached from a human value standpoint.



  7. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    Hey, thanks for validating my theory.

    The fact that it rarely happens to me makes it all the more special!
    No problemo it was a good theory
    Men are like parking spaces/the good ones are always taken and the ones left are handicapped or to small.

  8. #118
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    We've had company the last day or two so I've had less time to read and participate. I really appreciate all the points made on this last page though and will chew over them, as well as catching up on the rest of what I've missed here. Good stuff here!

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