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  1. #101
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    You're right. No they don't just take emotion at face value. I think that they do try to put themselves in other's shoes, but they maybe tend to go more from the experiences of other similar people/circumstances they have known more than focussing on their own experiences to guide them.

  2. #102
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    Has any of this conversation dealt with SFP's? They are Fi users too, and ISFP's are Fi doms.
    It's okay, I'm used to being left out.
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  3. #103
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Jeffster, please jump in! You and Halla are actually the only SP posters of any sort I can think of off hand, so it's nothin' personal!

  4. #104
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    [Also, when I was in the Natural Helpers program at school [sort of like a peer mediation group], upon looking back at the types that comprised a majority of the Fi users, their biggest obstacle toward being an effective listener and mediator was a tendency to reframe others' problems as analogous to their own, which resulted in the person with problems feeling like they weren't being listened to [whereas my problem was typically not caring enough and trying to solve everybody's problems. They had a tough time with me because I was the only NTP in the group].
    I am somewhere on the INFJ/INFP spectrum...when I take those cognitive process tests it shows Fi=Fe so I am still unclear what "type" I embody most. I do know that my Fi level is high, and I have been guilty of the above bolded statement, especially when the person is close to me and I am literally "feeling" their pain/frustration/anger and I want to connect with them, to share that burden with them. I want to share that understanding with the other person, perhaps too hastily, and then not listen as carefully as I should when they speak. It is something immediate and automatic as Udog so aptly described in their post.

    I think my work as an advocate has allowed me to develop both my Fi and Fe because I have to be able to recognize rights violations and empathize with the individuals I work with, but I also have to be able to work within an established system to bring about change. I can't be so unreasonable and so rigid that I won't acknowledge someone else's idea or belief system, even though they present it from the side of the "system."

    I actually very much enjoy bouncing ideas off other people because I feel my original idea is improved and strengthened; they can play the devil's advocate better than I can because I am too emotionally invested in my idea or presentation. Also, because my Fi can be so strong, I value other people at times pulling me back with the more practical aspects of a problem. From other people's perspective, I have done "kooky" things related to my Fi, but I always try to get a holistic view of the situation before actually acting on it (perhaps that is my Ti).

    Anyway, it is interesting to start to identify this "feeling aspect", inwardly and outwardly, that has played such a large part of my life. For me, anything I directly (or indirectly) experience is felt first and foremost within my body; I then proceed to reach out to others to share/resolve/acknowledge those feelings. I would find it far more difficult to have such intense feelings internally and have no way to dispel them. Often, the only way I have been able to deal with Fi is connect to other people with action-oriented personalities. Interesting to consider...thanks for all the amazing insight provided on this thread.
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  5. #105
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I think when you start talking in terms of feelings you're digressing a bit from what he actually said. He said they tended to reframe other people's problems in such a way as to make them analogous to their own, not their feelings. Extreme eg "My dad is an alcoholic and my mom is a crack-whore. I haven't eaten in 3 days." "Ah, that's like the time I forgot to bring my lunch money to school. Let me tell you what I learned from that experience." That's my understanding of what he said, anyway. Which is a definite pitfall for INFPs in my experience, though more so for immature ones who assume more.

    As for Fi-users imagining how they themselves would feel in a given situation and projecting it onto others, surely that's the only possible basis for empathy? Isn't that very nearly the definition of empathy? Are you saying that the Fi-user make assumptions based on role-playing themselves into the context, whereas Fe-users divorce the emotions from the context? Personally I start off by imagining how I would feel in the situation (based mostly on past experiences), but I'm well aware that the way I react to things is different from how most people react to things. Some situations which most people brush off stop me in my tracks, and other situations which devastate others don't affect me much at all. So though I start off by putting myself in someone else's shoes, I do evaluate how their reaction to the situation appears to differ from my imagined reaction to the situation. I'll still look for the emotions I expect even if they aren't being displayed, though. If someone has just lost their father and is showing cheerfulness I won't take that at face-value, for instance. Surely Fe-users operate similarly though? They don't just take evinced emotion at face-value, do they?
    Thanks for explaining! What you describe doesn't sound at all dissimilar to what I would do. Like I said, I was just needing clarification re. what I'd read and then interpreted about Fi.

    Also the distinction you make in the first paragraph re. feelings vs. problems is a good one. thanks.
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  6. #106
    Senior Member seeker22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I've found with the Fi types I know that they are outwardly warmer and more demonstrative than me, yet inwardly more distant... but even to the ones I am close to I feel held at arm's length.
    I'm an ENFP and this describes me PERFECTLY.

    I am very friendly, engaging, and warm to everyone - but highly selective about who I truly let *in.* I keep most people at arm's length inwardly, until I trust them verrryy much and feel safe to be vulnerable with them.

    I can see how this might confuse people - because they assume warmth = let's be friends.

    So yes, you can definitely hit a brick wall with me.

    I also notice people often mistake me for a Thinker, not a Feeler - mainly I believe because I keep my feelings to myself, but enjoy discussing thoughts, ideas, concepts, etc verbally/outwardly. Feeling wise, I keep my cards close to my chest.

    And yes, I have been told I keep a certain psychological/emotional distance, while at the same time giving off a warm vibe. So basically, I end up sending mixed signals without really intending to.

    Again, I think it confuses people. Because I am warm and engaging, they believe I am interested in starting a friendship or whatever, and then I go poof, and they are left scratching their heads going "I don't get it?? I thought we totally connected." Yes, my interest and curiosity was true and genuine. However, it does not necessarily mean I want to pursue anything beyond that moment in time that we shared.

    I think the Fi can make someone more difficult to "read."

  7. #107
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    I can see the issues that arise with Fi wanting to be validated, appreciated, and yet still remain hidden. It seems counter-productive.

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    Fi has the strongest and most universal personal values.
    That's just my personal problem with DomFi's I'm someone who is very flexible I've seen that many DomFi's aren't as flexible especially when they believe something to be against their value system. There was also something that WonkaVision said on Vent about those who have a dominate judging function (Ti/Te/Fe/Fi) versus those who have a dominate percieving function (Ne/Ni/Se/Si) I supposed its pretty controversal but it made sense to me because I've noticed that those who are much more likely to judge would be someone who was DomFi than opposed to someone who was DomSe or DomNe but yeah the only problem I have with DomFi is the fact that I don't understand them very much but other than that I like you guys =) I just think that if we were to ever get into a debate one of us would walk away fustrated.
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  9. #109
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    why does Fi always replay things back through the viewpoint of the Fi user? It is self centric. Are there paralells to the way Ti process data for primary Ti users here?

    Fi mirrors what it perceives to be thier discomfort, then responds from the perspective of "I". Once I felt this way....once I experienced that....

    emo stimulus goes in-self reference comes out....what is the point of the self refernce in the conversational exchange between two Fi users? Is it a verbal exchange of empathy?

  10. #110
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synthetic Darkness View Post
    That's just my personal problem with DomFi's I'm someone who is very flexible I've seen that many DomFi's aren't as flexible especially when they believe something to be against their value system.
    Or from another perspective, dominant perceiving people seem to have pliable morals which may also seem like a sheer lack of integrity to a Fi-dom.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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