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  1. #91
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    No, at least not the same way that my INFJ has to talk his major decisions out, even working on the car, he has to talk to me about each and every step to help get it all straight in his mind.
    Is this INFJ very intuitive? I hardly ever share my ideas with people, but not because it's tiring to do so, rather people don't understand them and incorrectly scrutinize them.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
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  2. #92
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    Is this INFJ very intuitive? I hardly ever share my ideas with people, but not because it's tiring to do so, rather people don't understand them and incorrectly scrutinize them.
    He shares his ideas mostly only with me. But I wasn't talking about his ideas and his intutions, I was talking about his feeling and thinking.

  3. #93
    See Right Through Me Bubbles's Avatar
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    Personally, I find people are very draining. If I'm sick, I want to curl up into my blankets, have a cup of tea beside me, and hug a pillow close while I watch old movies on TV. I want to feel free to be in pain, not to have to worry about making other people comfortable. See, it's odd: I feel as though when other people are around I'm obligated to A) prove to them I'm feeling sick and not act even remotely fine (an irrational fear I've had since I was little, haha, that someone would think I was faking...) and B) I don't want to make you uncomfortable helping me, and I don't want to be helped unless I ask for it. I feel like I'm burdening people that way!

    In regards to friends, I have days where I want to spend a ton of time with them, and other days where I groan because they're calling me and I just want alone time. I feel some relationships I have I am torn between telling someone straight-out "Hey, I wish you wouldn't call me so much, I never have much to say," and just ignoring the call itself. That sounds horrible, but I have one extremely persistent ENFP friend who does that constantly, and it's the only reason we're still friends. Needless to say, I find that stressful. Very stressful. :P

    I do think FPs need to be able to verbalize their feelings. I went through a phase growing up where I just expected the world to be full of mindreaders who could interpret every little thing to come up with "oh hey she's sad today." People are flawed interpreters. It helps if you can say "Okay, when you did this I found myself really upset and hurt, I felt like you were pointing a finger at me," if you're trying to keep good relationships with people. And hey, you know what? That's using a bit of Fe, too. We're forgetting here that Fi users also have Fe. Now both are important to us, but clearly we need to develop some Fe to survive this crazy world of people, you know? Fi is more about inner harmony; Fe is more about creating a harmonic environment. Both are necessary to an FP, but don't expect Fe to come any easier than Fi. We gotta develop that.
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  4. #94
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Necessary Disclaimer: If anything mentioned here makes you feel bad, I clearly didn't mean it, nor will it necessarily apply to you personally. Anything I say is purely based on experience, thoughts on my experiences, and some plausible explanations using Typology theory. None of the following is a judgment on your existence. Have a wonderful day!

    The person with Fi as their primary decision making function can, at their worst, be able to justify any type of behavior as long as they are being "true to oneself." The classic "Whateva, I do what I want" mentality that can lead them into trouble, ostracism, and eventually can put them into a reality that really does not exist outside of their own perspective. This is how they can lose friends, justify losing said friends, and generally distancing themselves from others.

    Some can have a sensitivity to criticism that can discourage real honesty, in favor of preserving inner harmony instead. I have known one in particular that will not take the blame or responsibility for any of her actions simply because that realization of personal fault would damage her self esteem and damage her ability to justify her behavior.

    Also, when I was in the Natural Helpers program at school [sort of like a peer mediation group], upon looking back at the types that comprised a majority of the Fi users, their biggest obstacle toward being an effective listener and mediator was a tendency to reframe others' problems as analogous to their own, which resulted in the person with problems feeling like they weren't being listened to [whereas my problem was typically not caring enough and trying to solve everybody's problems. They had a tough time with me because I was the only NTP in the group].

    All I can really think of right now.

    I think this is a great post.

    The piece I bolded towards the end reminded me of a thread not too long ago (that Ne-Monster created? Where we figured out how 'high' our Fi was), where one of the bullet points for Fi was something to the effect of: "I know how someone else is feeling based on the feelings that I have/am experiencing" -- or something to that effect. Whereas the Fe was "I know how someone else is feeling based on how they are behaving and what they are saying". Basically, it implied the Fi-user looked within themselves, and their own feelings, to determine how the other was feeling, and the Fe looked to cues the other person gave them. (I'm sure I'm oversimplifying, but it ties to Jock's post)

    Now I may be misunderstanding Fi, and what this exactly means, but when I read this, my reaction was, "Why on earth would MY feelings have anything to do with what the other person is feeling? We're two distinct people, with two distinct personalities, and we may have two utterly different responses/reactions to said situation. Therefore what I think/feel about it may have no bearing on what the other person is feeling." So when I'm listening to someone, I may do an inner dialogue to the effect of, "IF I were this person with their personality, I can understand why they would feel the way they do [even though I myself don't feel said emotion]." I never think or assume that my feelings correspond to the other persons.

    Any Fi-users want to clarify this for me, and how the Fi user processes something, specifically with interpersonal dynamics and when it comes to listening and 'relating' to another?
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  5. #95
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Thinking about it more, cheering-up visits (if done) are best done with a wing-man - someone who is good friends with both you and the INFP. That way the INFP won't feel that it's incumbent on them to keep the conversation flowing. The lack of pressure to contribute to the conversation will probably make them more likely to do so.

  6. #96
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    Oh, is that pic you? If so, I like it! If not, I still like it! Seriously, its a really good pic and has lots going on in it. I need a cool pic...I have some but they are all too big memory-wise
    :confused: My avatar? No....that is Siouxsie Sioux


    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    So, for example, if you were thinking about something, you wouldn't find it as needful to have another person to bounce ideas off of to clarify or ignite your own thoughts?

    Would they want someone to come around if they were sick or feeling down or would they prefer their own space at that time?

    Would they not care quite as much about other people's reactions to their thoughts/feeling/opinions/wishes?

    What other ways might they not need people as much?
    - I definitely like to bounce ideas off of people, but I need to formulate the ideas first, and that requires some time alone to think. Honestly, many people have a hard time seeing your vision & will be critical of something they just don't grasp, so that can make me hesitant unless I trust them. This is why I like to make sure I have an idea well thought out or even something tangible to show before I present it.

    - I prefer my own space when I am sick. I have never been in the hospital, and I suspect even then I'd only want very close family around. I don't like being seen looking yucky, it injures my feminine vanity
    I also don't like to be the center of attention, and having people drop by or send gifts might make me uncomfortable. I have my family that offers to run to the store for me if I need cough syrup or whatever, and I do the same for them.

    - I definitely care about other people's reactions/feelings/etc. I strive for "win-win" situations and will make compromises to get there. Sometimes though, I may not back down because I feel they are simply wrong. I am not such a people pleaser that I will go against my sense of what is correct.

    - I'm generally more independent than a lot of people. I may need people less often, but when I do, I require more from them at that moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    So when I'm missing my friends that somehow translates in my head into the ultimate aloneness of the human condition and the transitory nature of life rather than just a simple indication that I need to get off my ass and go visiting. That's maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but not always. It certainly doesn't mean I've gone cold on my friends.

    As such, it doesn't seem to me that I've chosen that hill to die on so much as that that's the hill I've been cornered on.


    I'm laughing at the friend thing. Somehow, when I've withdrawn from friends, I have the feeling they are avoiding me, as if they should reach out to me to see why I am isolating myself . Also, when I am not in a people mood, I may feel I am doing everyone a favor by staying away. I don't like to subject people to my gloomy sides.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    That is EXACTLY how it is with ENTPs for me. We are both pretty damn intimidated by the other.
    Yep, me too.

    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    I knew an IXTJ with a huge amount of Fi who laughed at the prospect of an officer that had arrested him dying a few days later in a gun fight, while I thought, "Someone's lost their husband, father, or brother. How is that funny?"
    It feels like justice in the universe.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  7. #97
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I think this is a great post.

    The piece I bolded towards the end reminded me of a thread not too long ago (that Ne-Monster created? Where we figured out how 'high' our Fi was), where one of the bullet points for Fi was something to the effect of: "I know how someone else is feeling based on the feelings that I have/am experiencing" -- or something to that effect. Whereas the Fe was "I know how someone else is feeling based on how they are behaving and what they are saying". Basically, it implied the Fi-user looked within themselves, and their own feelings, to determine how the other was feeling, and the Fe looked to cues the other person gave them. (I'm sure I'm oversimplifying, but it ties to Jock's post)

    Now I may be misunderstanding Fi, and what this exactly means, but when I read this, my reaction was, "Why on earth would MY feelings have anything to do with what the other person is feeling? We're two distinct people, with two distinct personalities, and we may have two utterly different responses/reactions to said situation. Therefore what I think/feel about it may have no bearing on what the other person is feeling." So when I'm listening to someone, I may do an inner dialogue to the effect of, "IF I were this person with their personality, I can understand why they would feel the way they do [even though I myself don't feel said emotion]." I never think or assume that my feelings correspond to the other persons.

    Any Fi-users want to clarify this for me, and how the Fi user processes something, specifically with interpersonal dynamics and when it comes to listening and 'relating' to another?
    Hm. From what I've seen the healthy Fi users engage in the place self within their shoe, and how would they react using their understanding of them. Where as the more unhealthy ones are more egocentric and believe that how they feel will be how other people will feel.

    On the other hand I as an Fe user have made the mistake of assuming what the other person is feeling based solely on their appearance before realising oh wait... their behaviour may not reflect their inner feelings at all.

  8. #98
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Being so Fi and feeling so much internally in a way (unless supported by a lot of Fe?) it 'maxes out' the persons resources and almost immobilizes the person's ability to extravert any more "emotion". And if you are very Fi dom and very sensitive, and don't have a lot of support (Fe/Ti/Te) to shield you from the effects of "pure Fi" and/or have had negative experiences with others in the past trampling your Fi, you will consciously withdraw further to protect yourself and that's on top of the unconscious internal orienting you already do.
    Oh yes, agreed. Intuition is a terrible function to try and ground Fi, as they both are up in the stratosphere. The more sucked up into Fi I get, the harder it is for me to balance it with logic and perspective. It's like the second I'm most me is the second I become what I least wish to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Where we figured out how 'high' our Fi was), where one of the bullet points for Fi was something to the effect of: "I know how someone else is feeling based on the feelings that I have/am experiencing" -- or something to that effect.

    [...]

    Any Fi-users want to clarify this for me, and how the Fi user processes something, specifically with interpersonal dynamics and when it comes to listening and 'relating' to another?
    It just happens, whether I choose it to happen or not. At its best, it's like I jump into the mud with the person, and then let them lean on me as we try and walk to safer ground together. So when an INFP starts to relate it to their own personal problems, it's the first step in trying to help someone. However, not all INFPs know that at some point the problem is about the other person, and are all too happy to leave the spotlight on themselves.

  9. #99
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Thank you for the variety of responses. It still feels like it would be tricky to navigate, but at least I understand the thought processes better. Some of this I had an idea of what it the reaction was likely to be, but not why. Keep on!

  10. #100
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I think this is a great post.

    The piece I bolded towards the end reminded me of a thread not too long ago (that Ne-Monster created? Where we figured out how 'high' our Fi was), where one of the bullet points for Fi was something to the effect of: "I know how someone else is feeling based on the feelings that I have/am experiencing" -- or something to that effect. Whereas the Fe was "I know how someone else is feeling based on how they are behaving and what they are saying". Basically, it implied the Fi-user looked within themselves, and their own feelings, to determine how the other was feeling, and the Fe looked to cues the other person gave them. (I'm sure I'm oversimplifying, but it ties to Jock's post)

    Now I may be misunderstanding Fi, and what this exactly means, but when I read this, my reaction was, "Why on earth would MY feelings have anything to do with what the other person is feeling? We're two distinct people, with two distinct personalities, and we may have two utterly different responses/reactions to said situation. Therefore what I think/feel about it may have no bearing on what the other person is feeling." So when I'm listening to someone, I may do an inner dialogue to the effect of, "IF I were this person with their personality, I can understand why they would feel the way they do [even though I myself don't feel said emotion]." I never think or assume that my feelings correspond to the other persons.
    I think when you start talking in terms of feelings you're digressing a bit from what he actually said. He said they tended to reframe other people's problems in such a way as to make them analogous to their own, not their feelings. Extreme eg "My dad is an alcoholic and my mom is a crack-whore. I haven't eaten in 3 days." "Ah, that's like the time I forgot to bring my lunch money to school. Let me tell you what I learned from that experience." That's my understanding of what he said, anyway. Which is a definite pitfall for INFPs in my experience, though more so for immature ones who assume more.

    As for Fi-users imagining how they themselves would feel in a given situation and projecting it onto others, surely that's the only possible basis for empathy? Isn't that very nearly the definition of empathy? Are you saying that the Fi-user make assumptions based on role-playing themselves into the context, whereas Fe-users divorce the emotions from the context? Personally I start off by imagining how I would feel in the situation (based mostly on past experiences), but I'm well aware that the way I react to things is different from how most people react to things. Some situations which most people brush off stop me in my tracks, and other situations which devastate others don't affect me much at all. So though I start off by putting myself in someone else's shoes, I do evaluate how their reaction to the situation appears to differ from my imagined reaction to the situation. I'll still look for the emotions I expect even if they aren't being displayed, though. If someone has just lost their father and is showing cheerfulness I won't take that at face-value, for instance. Surely Fe-users operate similarly though? They don't just take evinced emotion at face-value, do they?

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