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  1. #21
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    It actually came about because of the Ask an ESTJ thread. I found that several types discovered things about relating to each other in the course of discussing misunderstandings/puzzlements about ESTJ behaviour. Both the ST and NTs came away with a better understanding of NFs and I know I learned a lot about STJs and T thought processes and perceptions generally.

    I seem to have a lot of SJ friends and know that some things I do while teaching would drive them nuts. (I hate being limited to sticking with all the details of an outline from the beginning of the year, as long as the topics are being covered and I'm not springing huge surprises on them).

    I find that I just don't have a lot of common ground with many SPs, even though they're fun, and wonder how I may contribute to it being difficult for us to relate.

    I have learned some things from watching my ESTJ boyfriend at the time about approaching people first and imposing yourself on others in a friendly way that have helped me to be less supersensitive to the possibility of bothering people and people have responded warmly.

    SP types need more hands-on activities in school and need to understand how they are going to use whatever we're learning. I'm teaching French this year in an area where there is less practical need for it in getting a job and some kids come in with very negative attitudes.
    I'm figuring how best to help them see where the payoff could be for them.

    I know that NTs need more chances for independent learning than school settings often afford.* There are several NT kids I know failing highschool because they have not found a teacher that really "gets" them and because they are not very engaged in the subject matter.

    Each type perceives any particular action differently and am curious how their perception of INFJ behaviour varies according to type. I also would like to continue becoming a better and more effective friend or potential SO as time goes on.

  2. #22
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    Well fidelia I think you know what the differences are in the people you've had troubles with, and you seem to be trying to adjust to them, so I think you're doing it right and you're going to be okay. But that doesn't mean other members won't benefit from this thread.

    Slight derail- I made an A+ in chemistry because my INFJ teacher "got" me, she used MBTI and such and typed everyone on the first day, it was cool. Bonding with teachers for me really does help with the subject matter because I'm emotionally invested in it. That class was so great, she was nice enough to partner me with an ENTJ guy (who is now a good friend) because he was one of the few intuitives in the room, throughout the class we did everything in pairs except for testing. I had a hard time deciding between talking to my ENTJ friend or my INFJ teacher about the various things brewing in my mind...
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  3. #23
    Badoom~ Skyward's Avatar
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    I know that NTs need more chances for independent learning than school settings often afford.* There are several NT kids I know failing highschool because they have not found a teacher that really "gets" them and because they are not very engaged in the subject matter.
    Send them to Minnesota. They'll LOVE our charter schools (Even if most of the teachers in mine are NFs )

    Looks like I'll take a closer look at that thread, though. I read the first couple of pages and really enjoyed the new understanding I got of ESTJs.

    Yeah, in order for me to learn something I need book knowledge and need to ruminate on it for a while to assimilate the data into my mental tapestry. Until them I'm as dumb and neurotic as a chicken with its head cut off.

    Slight derail- I made an A+ in chemistry because my INFJ teacher "got" me, she used MBTI and such and typed everyone on the first day, it was cool. Bonding with teachers for me really does help with the subject matter because I'm emotionally invested in it. That class was so great, she was nice enough to partner me with an ENTJ guy (who is now a good friend) because he was one of the few intuitives in the room, throughout the class we did everything in pairs except for testing. I had a hard time deciding between talking to my ENTJ friend or my INFJ teacher about the various things brewing in my mind...
    My chemistry teacher was similar, but didn't use MBTI I don't think, and I had my INTP friend instead of an ENTJ friend. Didn't help from not screwing up the labs though. LF a NTJ to question me and not a laid back NTP
    'Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.' - Marilyn Monroe

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    Anthropology Major out of Hamline University. St. Paul, Minnesota.

  4. #24
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyward View Post
    My chemistry teacher was similar, but didn't use MBTI I don't think, and I had my INTP friend instead of an ENTJ friend. Didn't help from not screwing up the labs though. LF a NTJ to question me and not a laid back NTP
    Yeah, he would always be on my case if I were doing something wrong, which was actually pretty nice. Because I'd get on his case if he did something wrong. In labs we were the quickest and never missed any detail or did anything wrong. We could always ask the other for reassurance because we took good notes and paid attention. "This does this right?" "Yes" or "No it's like this, remember when she said X?" We'd blaze through our work in an orderly and efficient fashion, when we had an assignment I would start doing the problems backwards (if it was, say problems 1-10 I'd start at 10 and he would start at 1). And we were never wrong, and we would ask the other if we were unsure. We were awesome. After we blazed through our work we would have long discussions and joke around, it was a lot of fun.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  5. #25
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Thanks Blackcat!

    I think I still have a lot to learn though in terms of what is realistic in dealing with T types (I like them, but I rarely hear what their thought processes are out loud so misunderstand them/feel hurt more easily than I would like). I recently discovered that because many of them feel that that you either suck things up yourself and deal with it internally or change the situation, they perceive bringing up problems for discussion as crying/complaining etc and become even flintier. They feel it's either your problem to deal with or you are wasting their time if you do not take the course of action that they immediate suggest. Also because they dislike showing vulnerability and prefer to be perceived as strong, it is easy to not understand how to react to them or to see that they have a softer side as well.

    I like INFPs, but find that sometimes they can turn prickly without me being entirely sure of what triggered that strong of a reaction and I also have found with my INFP students, they tend to avoid problems/deadlines/conflict and daydream at times when they really need to be present.

    I sometimes feel intimidated by NTs, although the more I understand their communication style, I am able to see that any seeming challenging is mostly in the spirit of inquiry and needing reasons.

    An NF whom you connect with is a great unstoppable force, but one that is not on your side becomes a toxic student or employee who also has the power to affect how others feel. The different types of NF are different enough that I need more info.

    I also am seeing that different types enjoy and need different types of recognition and appreciation as well as different styles of management to respond effectively. Although I've read the PUM I and II books' sections on that, real life responses are useful.

  6. #26
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I think I still have a lot to learn though in terms of what is realistic in dealing with T types (I like them, but I rarely hear what their thought processes are out loud so misunderstand them/feel hurt more easily than I would like). I recently discovered that because many of them feel that that you either suck things up yourself and deal with it internally or change the situation, they perceive bringing up problems for discussion as crying/complaining etc and become even flintier. They feel it's either your problem to deal with or you are wasting their time if you do not take the course of action that they immediate suggest. Also because they dislike showing vulnerability and prefer to be perceived as strong, it is easy to not understand how to react to them or to see that they have a softer side as well.
    If there is a problem with a T student in the classroom then I'd say you need to confront them about it. Ask "what's wrong", because of what you've listed up here. Just get on their level of rationality really.

    I like INFPs, but find that sometimes they can turn prickly without me being entirely sure of what triggered that strong of a reaction and I also have found with my INFP students, they tend to avoid problems/deadlines/conflict and daydream at times when they really need to be present.
    Well, the prickly reaction is because of our feelings. And I'm sure you knew that. I never really expected others to know how I was feeling, I just wanted to be left alone when I got "prickly". If you mean toward you, as a teacher, yeah you're screwed. I am usually quick to judge someone in a higher up position than I am, since they are responsible for me and my grade, and thus my future. If I see a teacher as incompetent, then I lose respect pretty quickly. It's easy for me to lose or gain respect in general, so I'd say those first few days are integral for gaining the respect of XXFP and XXTJ students (We have that Fi thing going on).

    I would say that ISFPs and INFPs are going to be more prone to having respect issues with teachers though, an ISFP guy I know, I had a math class with him and a lot of the time we would sit around and be like "god he is such an idiot of a teacher". It's the judgmental nature of Fi.

    As for daydreaming, I'm guilty of that. If I see that something doesn't serve a purpose (an activity) or I'm just not in the mood I'll start to daydream. I never avoided conflict though (but I'm a hardened INFP). It's funny, my teachers have always had to get me out of daydreams. My ESTJ math teacher was hilarious about it. I would be staring off into space at the board, and she would still know when I was daydreaming. She would always make some comment like "Mr. Wolff, come back to planet earth please". My chemistry teacher would catch me and say "Chriiiiiiiiiiiiissssss pay attention!" It is appreciated, just be sure to be observant of when it happens.

    I sometimes feel intimidated by NTs, although the more I understand their communication style, I am able to see that any seeming challenging is mostly in the spirit of inquiry and needing reasons.
    Yes, all they want is reasons. My ENTJ friend would regularly challenge what was presented in the class if it didn't make sense, and the teacher in consequence would do the needed clarifying.

    An NF whom you connect with is a great unstoppable force, but one that is not on your side becomes a toxic student or employee who also has the power to affect how others feel. The different types of NF are different enough that I need more info.
    See what I said above about respect. I do think that I effected the classroom's atmosphere when I was dissatisfied with the teacher or satisfied, in a negative or positive way (respectfully). I never thought of it that way...

    I also am seeing that different types enjoy and need different types of recognition and appreciation as well as different styles of management to respond effectively. Although I've read the PUM I and II books' sections on that, real life responses are useful.
    If you have any questions on INFPs then just PM them to me.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  7. #27
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Black Cat, I'm confused. Didn't you just figure out that you were an S? Thanks and I'll probably take you up on your offer.

    The INFPs I have ever taught have gotten along well with me and respect hasn't been an issue. We've also been fortunate to have small classes that can better cater to their interests. The only time they get prickly in class is if they are pushed (like at testing time) and they haven't prepared properly and don't want to spend the time on it and will not get help when it was needed. I have seen them get suddenly prickly with other students though or deeply affected on bad days (more so than some other feeling types). For me, I'd rather people acknowledge my pricklyness, so it took me a little while to get used to just letting it be. I usually only display pricklyness when I've really had it with someone. Their lack of acknowledgement means to me that they are extremely obtuse, or that they don't care that we have a problem. In either case, I lose respect for them. In general, I regard pricklyness as a form of imposing your personal feelings on the general atmosphere at large and would prefer people to state if they have a problem with me or suck it up till an appropriate time (or at least notify me privately) if the problem is internal. There's some of that "I need to be true to myself, even if others don't think it's working well for me" thing that goes on. Fi generally throws me off a little. I need to understand it a little better.

    My one INFP student that used to daydream would laugh at me because I would look over at him and see that faraway look in his eyes and call, "DC, come baaaaaack". It got to the point where whenever I'd look at him, he'd say, "I'm here, Foreman, I really am!!!" or else "You mean you want me here all the time?...I'm a gettin'". There were two kids of the same name so I offered to title them DC and DG to distinguish. He liked it and it got to the point where he wouldn't answer to his full name if I forgot and used it. The INFP girls in my class generally liked to hang around and visit during class (if it was really small) or after class. I've noticed a lot of INFPs I know like anime a lot. Why do you suppose that is?

    Any ideas regarding ISFPs? I know very few in real life, so don't have much point of reference to work from.

    My T problems are generally only with close friendships/dating relationship communication.

    ENFPs sometimes seem fickle to me. I like them, but while they are outwardly warm, I find they are inwardly more distant. I am less likely to approach people, but am inwardly quite warm. The one ENFP and I were good friends (she taught at the same school as me). I'm not a very touchy person, but I had the feeling that she was even less so and would be very uncomfortable if I touched her in any way (don't know if that's typical or not). The second year I knew her, we stopped hanging out as much together although she didn't seem upset with me.

    I think generally ENFJs are pretty easy for me to understand and feel comfortable with.

    Anyone else of other types that wants to jump in either with a gripe about INFJs or with enlightening advice about your type would be most welcome too.

  8. #28
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Black Cat, I'm confused. Didn't you just figure out that you were an S?
    That was more of an experiment to see if it fit, I can't see myself as anything but INFP I've decided. I'm just grounded, concrete and realistic while being N (I have a good balance).

    The INFPs I have ever taught have gotten along well with me and respect hasn't been an issue.
    Well it sounds like you aren't a terrible teacher then. Bad judgment doesn't apply in your case.

    We've also been fortunate to have small classes that can better cater to their interests. The only time they get prickly in class is if they are pushed (like at testing time) and they haven't prepared properly and don't want to spend the time on it and will not get help when it was needed. I have seen them get suddenly prickly with other students though or deeply affected on bad days (more so than some other feeling types). For me, I'd rather people acknowledge my pricklyness, so it took me a little while to get used to just letting it be. I usually only display pricklyness when I've really had it with someone. Their lack of acknowledgement means to me that they are extremely obtuse, or that they don't care that we have a problem. In either case, I lose respect for them. In general, I regard pricklyness as a form of imposing your personal feelings on the general atmosphere at large and would prefer people to state if they have a problem with me or suck it up till an appropriate time (or at least notify me privately) if the problem is internal. There's some of that "I need to be true to myself, even if others don't think it's working well for me" thing that goes on. Fi generally throws me off a little. I need to understand it a little better.
    Yeah, this bit of the post did strike a cord with me. That is really how I get when I got prickly in a class... basically passive aggressive about it, and just wanting for it to go away. Other than that I don't really understand in myself why I do that, get all passive aggressive and act that way toward other people if they annoy me. Perhaps it's a defense mechanism? I would have to think about it more/get probed more to get a clear answer.

    My one INFP student that used to daydream would laugh at me because I would look over at him and see that faraway look in his eyes and call, "DC, come baaaaaack". It got to the point where whenever I'd look at him, he'd say, "I'm here, Foreman, I really am!!!" or else "You mean you want me here all the time?...I'm a gettin'". There were two kids of the same name so I offered to title them DC and DG to distinguish. He liked it and it got to the point where he wouldn't answer to his full name if I forgot and used it. The INFP girls in my class generally liked to hang around and visit during class (if it was really small) or after class. I've noticed a lot of INFPs I know like anime a lot. Why do you suppose that is?
    Ahahaha, that sounds like me. Making a game out of preventing my daydreaming.

    I like to bond with my peers (the ones I select to bond with anyways), so that probably explains the girls liking to visit.

    As for anime, I like it too. My guess is that it's an easy way to escape from the material world and to get absorbed into another universe. That is the appealing part for me along with the obvious things, like enjoying the art or storyline etc.

    Any ideas regarding ISFPs? I know very few in real life, so don't have much point of reference to work from.
    I don't really know many ISFPs either. But I jut got acquainted with one, he's in the "guy group" I hang with (we have guy's nights out and stuff). I look forward to analyzing him. He is one of the reasons it's clear to me I'm not an ISFP. But in the classroom I'd say just keep things interesting and varying. SPs get bored with repetitious things and enjoy new challenges. Lots of the SPs I know, when they get bored, will just simply stop caring about the class and find some way to entertain themselves (which is usually by talking to other students). You just have to keep them compelled by the subject matter.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  9. #29
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Yes, I figured that with the SPs I have taught. It's a quandry though of how to balance the SJ need for being prepared (by knowing what to expect next) with the SP need for changing it up and a few surprises.

    I had a class where I was trying to introduce people to new kinds of music, and the reserve I was on had very limited foods people ate and poor eating habits. To kill two birds with one stone, we had a taste testing week where I brought in weird foods every day for them to try and then we also did some "musical taste testing", discussing how like with food, certain things appeal right away, others grow on you with repeated exposure and some you'll always dislike. The SPs really liked it.

    I also wanted to develop comfort in class, a sense that everyone has talents (identity development) and a comfortable way of developing teaching/leadership skills so had people volunteer to come up and do something in front of the class for bonus marks (they had all semester, so had time to think). Some told jokes, some did card tricks, some played piano, some showed something they had made. I found that the SPs volunteered most.

    It is a problem though, because I am a little too loosey goosey for the SJs, although I make sure I have some routine activities in class that they can expect and I tend to not have enough hands on stuff to change it up for the SPs.

  10. #30
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Anyone else have any complaints to make about INFJs? Let's hear them!

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