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  1. #11
    Senior Member Silent Stars's Avatar
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    I haven't had any problems with this. I get along with them quite well.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member amelie's Avatar
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    Yes - INTJ's and INFJ's can have major communication issues. Epic. Both types are stubborn and think they are right.

    Another issue: INTJ's and INFJ's both tend to come to a point of dismissal of the other person. If an INFJ gets done, they are done for a good long time - fortunately, it usually takes a LOT to get to that point. If you can help mediate before it gets to that point, that would be good.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by scortia View Post
    Pretty much as it's been said already. I've experienced "unhealthy" INTJs and we butt heads when they take personal inadequacies out on others in the form of a superiority complex and loads of unnecessary criticism. I view this is as a cruel injustice and I get on my little crusade chariot.

    Typically our friendship ends there because once you point out to an unhealthy INTJ that they are being judgmental and are not right about every damn thing they say, they cut you off there instead of listening further. I've unfortunately experienced this a couple of times. They can build up that wall in a second, even if you try to calmly explain your feelings on the matter.

    It's a shame really, I love INTJs as friends when they're not in a bad spot.

    Yeah, My boyfriend is an INTJ and I love him..... But in my opinion he is deliberately lame when using negative actions & has no soul at times.

  4. #14
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Are there some innate issues between INTJs and INFJs in terms of communication/motive/disagreement?

    My IRL INFJ is awesome, beautiful, tough, and very independent yet really deep in that beautiful INFJ way. She sailed her sailboat across part of the Atlantic all alone. (She is single too, you silly ENTPs)

    However she got in a huge fight with an INTJ that I also like very much.

    It tunrs out they have a history of not agreeing with one another. She feels as though he is being condescending.

    The latest disagreement to me seemed very trivial. He heard a number. He restated the number factually and concluded it meant poor results-incorrectly. She then seemed to read a huge amount into it and get far more upset than I expected.

    Is there a theme of INTJ-INFJ interactions having issues with miscommunication?
    When a small issue results in a big blow-up (especially if you want to correlate it with Ni) then it is representative of a more pervasive issue. The small incident serves as a microcosm of the fundamental, overarching issue of conflict between the two parties. If the small incident can be resolved, then that resolution could potentially have more universal application as well.

    For whatever reason, even though I get along pretty well with INTJs in general, I do get tweaked when there is a smugness combined with an assumption of being right, especially when the person isn't correct. I can feel the thickness of that wall of smugness and feel like it will take a more poignant effort to break through it than with most other forms of communication. There could be a feeling from the INFJ that communication is so stunted with this particular INTJ, and their approach bull-headed rather than actually focusing on reason and going outside ego, that either it is time to give up, or it will take an intense reaction to break through that barrier. idk, I'm just throwing that out there, but it could easily be off-base as well. It is mostly a fwiw comment.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  5. #15
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    I just wanted to add my 2 cents.

    I havnt had much experience with an INTJ and an INFJ together
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #16
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    When a small issue results in a big blow-up (especially if you want to correlate it with Ni) then it is representative of a more pervasive issue. The small incident serves as a microcosm of the fundamental, overarching issue of conflict between the two parties. If the small incident can be resolved, then that resolution could potentially have more universal application as well.

    For whatever reason, even though I get along pretty well with INTJs in general, I do get tweaked when there is a smugness combined with an assumption of being right, especially when the person isn't correct. I can feel the thickness of that wall of smugness and feel like it will take a more poignant effort to break through it than with most other forms of communication. There could be a feeling from the INFJ that communication is so stunted with this particular INTJ, and their approach bull-headed rather than actually focusing on reason and going outside ego, that either it is time to give up, or it will take an intense reaction to break through that barrier. idk, I'm just throwing that out there, but it could easily be off-base as well. It is mostly a fwiw comment.
    Good points. Dont you think Te doms are worse though (as far as thinking they are right and being difficult to get through). It just seems the characteristics you describe are more related to Te than Ni.

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  7. #17
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    For whatever reason, even though I get along pretty well with INTJs in general, I do get tweaked when there is a smugness combined with an assumption of being right, especially when the person isn't correct. I can feel the thickness of that wall of smugness and feel like it will take a more poignant effort to break through it than with most other forms of communication. There could be a feeling from the INFJ that communication is so stunted with this particular INTJ, and their approach bull-headed rather than actually focusing on reason and going outside ego, that either it is time to give up, or it will take an intense reaction to break through that barrier. idk, I'm just throwing that out there, but it could easily be off-base as well. It is mostly a fwiw comment.
    This is my experience as well. And as I'm usually conflict-avoidant, I usually let them think they won, but I'm secretly thinking "You're so hopeless!"

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Good points. Dont you think Te doms are worse though (as far as thinking they are right and being difficult to get through). It just seems the characteristics you describe are more related to Te than Ni.
    Te doms are 'worse' in that they will tell you how wrong you are in your face. I recently spent 3 hours talking to a very religious ESTJ lady who kept talking about her beliefs the whole time despite my attempt to change the subject. She even deliberately asked vague questions like "Do you think there is right and wrong in the world?" and will gleefully say "Wrong!" when you said something she did not agree with.

    INTJs tend to a bit more indirect in "being right". From my experience, they seem even more convinced that they are right. Even when you present evidence that says otherwise, it is not enough to convince their 'Ni understanding', and they will find counter-evidence to dispute your evidence. Of course, INFJs are guilty of this too. I think when Ni-doms disagree, things can get real ugly.
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  8. #18
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    INTJs tend to a bit more indirect in "being right". From my experience, they seem even more convinced that they are right. Even when you present evidence that says otherwise, it is not enough to convince their 'Ni understanding', and they will find counter-evidence to dispute your evidence. Of course, INFJs are guilty of this too. I think when Ni-doms disagree, things can get real ugly.
    I thought about this point after writing what I wrote. It is sort of like unreasoning stubbornness. I can be very sure that I'm right. I do change my views on a lot of things. What will convince me is information that helps me understand my overall perceptions are wrong. Sometimes that's hard facts. Sometimes it's an alternative explanation. Sometimes, things aren't unfolding the way I thought they would and I'm forced to re-evaluate. There can be one overwhelming piece of information that clearly tells me I'm wrong or maybe multiple things.

    The only interaction with INFJs that I have is on this forum. I tend to listen to what many of the INFJs on the forum have to say. The insight is impressive to me. They make comments on the deeper meaning of things but in a different dimension than the way I think. Like @fia's post - there is some nice content there. Maybe some points I know already but don't think about much. I like the way that meaningful thinking and points are crystallized in a concise way. It's a general comment about many of the INFJs here. One interesting pattern I believe I have noticed though is that there is a tendency for the INFJ to throw out these interesting points. Then, I will want to dialogue on it with them because I think what they are saying is interesting. The response back sometimes doesn't come. Other times, it seems slow. Why is that? Are you still thinking or do your experience the INTJ interaction as conflict?

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  9. #19
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    One interesting pattern I believe I have noticed though is that there is a tendency for the INFJ to throw out these interesting points. Then, I will want to dialogue on it with them because I think what they are saying is interesting. The response back sometimes doesn't come. Other times, it seems slow. Why is that? Are you still thinking or do your experience the INTJ interaction as conflict?
    One possible explanation that I can think of is that sometimes the INFJs 'Ni-based' understanding is quite vague even to themselves. When asked to explain, INFJs might suddenly realize they cannot verbalize or give reasons or evidence for their claim. They know "It just seems this way" and "It just feels like this" will not hold up, which will cause them to doubt the validity of their 'insight' and send them into an unconscious introspective loop. Sometimes no real answer ever comes out of it.

    I don't think INFJs view the INTJ style of communication as conflict. Personally, I feel that Te places a lot of value on hard evidence, which I sometimes cannot give. A lot of the time I really do not have anything concrete to add to a point, and I try to come up with a response that ultimately does not say anything new, and I end up not posting it.

    I'm not sure if this is true for other INFJs though...
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  10. #20
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Good points. Dont you think Te doms are worse though (as far as thinking they are right and being difficult to get through). It just seems the characteristics you describe are more related to Te than Ni.
    From my experience I clash the most with Te-doms and mirror their style in response, if I respond. I can't remember clashing with INTJs even when they get brash there is some way a connection is made, so I was speaking hypothetically attempting to apply it to the OP.

    I have communicated at length with INTJs that become depressive and there can be a hard tunnel vision that takes place under stress that is universalized into a very dark image of the entire world. When I've pushed back and directly said and shown the premise isn't rational, the response has tended to be more positive and reasoned, even when the individual was in a very dark place.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

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