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[ENFP] INTJ trying to understand an ENFP's actions

Clonester

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Reading this thread I'd be surprised, actually, if he was hurt by one of your comments. The coldness is probably coming from something else that he's taken in. But he wont verbalize this reason to you unless you ask; the only thing you will see is the coldness.
 

thescientist

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It's tough to say what happened.
Do you think you did anything to hurt his feelings?
Whatever his type is, he sounds like an insecure guy.

I guess calling him sensitive could be a blow to his masculine ego.
He doesn't sound like a guy you want to be with anyway.

I dont think he's insecure at all. He's a very confident guy. He's just sensitive. And he doesnt like to admit it, especially because of what others have said about the typical male stereotypes.

Reading this thread I'd be surprised, actually, if he was hurt by one of your comments. The coldness is probably coming from something else that he's taken in. But he wont verbalize this reason to you unless you ask; the only thing you will see is the coldness.
So if he wasnt hurt by my sarcasm, what do you mean the coldness is from something else he's taken in? Like what?
 

Into It

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Edit: Following three posts presuppose that he does not wish to pursue a relationship with you, which is my hunch, but it appears others do not think so.

A wise idea to tell him exactly how you feel. He is not going to come out and tell you, but if you explain yourself, I think he might give you something satisfactory. He may be trying to turn you off/away from him because he does not want you, and he may be insensitive because he feels you do not require the sensitivity that another might, which is probably true, but not to the extent that he apparently believes. He wants to be clear with his intentions, but he doesn't have the spine to do so, and so he reverts to childish and simple tactics which may be more hurtful or confusing than the mature alternative. But his animosity is not directed to hurt- don't make that mistake. If I were you, I would be straight up with him and focus more on his undertones leading you to believe that he is harboring somewhat malicious feelings than on the fact that things are awkard. He already knows things are awkward.

I must say that I am not surprised by his initial behavior, though, and that he may have moved on quickly for the simple reason that he has GGS (Grass is Greener Syndrome) and the situation involves no fault of yours. He wouldn't stop dating you because you offended him unless you did so consistently, which I doubt. He is probably behaving this way now because your presences peeves him, peeves him because he feels the necessity to distance himself from you but is unwilling to do so through calm, rational explanation, thus pitting his consciousness against his own weakness that he would rather not acknowledge, and he is deflecting this truth by blaming you for your thickness and inability to get the hint.

Sorry we have GGS, this probably will not be your last time to experience this kind of unfairness.
 

Into It

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-commences obnoxious jump into this thread in hopes of further ENFP comprehension- Could you (or any ENFP here) elaborate on some of this? What makes you lose interest? Does it happen in an established relationship, where you just decide one day you aren't that into the person anymore, or is it just during the opening stages where you two are flirting?

On the whole pushing away people for whom you feel too much: is there anything that person could do to start or reverse that cycle?

GGS. ENFPs think a) in terms of what things could be and b) in broad concepts and c)interpersonally. Therefore, you can expect an ENFP to consider the relationship question in terms of all that the relationship is not, taking what is for granted. On top of this, ENFPs attract the object of their affection like a tractor beam, so on top of considering the relationship that they are in in terms of what it is not, they consider the possibilities of all of the other relationships that are not. Being particularly focused, (though not seeming so), the tractor beam may be repositioned and aimed at another person much to the dismay of the person he is with. ENFPs are quite caring, but they are not selfless. There must be a strong benefit:work ratio involving relatively quick payoff for an ENFP to be enticed to action, and when you apply this to remantic relationships, you get a person who sees he can have the novelty of a new relationship almost effortlessly, and he will abandon the one he is with for the better ratio (in terms of immediate payoff). It is quite possibly my worst quality, and I have become much wiser in terms of being careful who I allow to open up and become attached to me. Maybe my wisdom came from the realization of the accumulative damage I have caused. Many ENFPs are not so wise about this, and so they crush people successively until their guilt forces them to reevaluate their behavior.

Is this sufficient?
 

Into It

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So if he wasnt hurt by my sarcasm, what do you mean the coldness is from something else he's taken in? Like what?

I really want to stress that I don't buy this for a second. I don't know any type more able to evaluate the seriousness of another's comments. An ENFP will be crushed by the INTP "mirror of truth," but general sarcasm is usually appreciated by ENFPs. I mean, does he really suck at volleyball and think about it a lot self-consciously? If so, your comment was pretty bitchy and I retract my statements. If he is at least halfway decent, he will recognize the sarcasm immediately (and probably appreciate the acronym as well ;))
 

Strawberrylover

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I highly doubt he's in love with me or has deep feelings. Is there a possibility he is being cold with me because he's just not interested anymore? If he has lost interest, wouldnt approaching him about his aloofness come across as needy? If that's the case, should I make it clear that I'm fine with him not being interested, and that I just wanted to clear the air and make sure I didnt offend him?

I just want to be careful about how I express myself this time around.

So I'm going on vacation for a whole week and wont be able to talk to him until I get back (if things are still weird when I get back). He sent me a text today to give me a tip about the museums I'll be visiting, which I thought was unexpected. Could he be trying to make up for being cold with me the day before? He again completely ignored me when I left work and said, "Well I'm off to NY".. He just replied "have a good trip" w/o even looking at me. That one really stung :eek:uch:...It was so weird because just a few minutes before that, he and I along with another coworker were conversing and it was fun and friendly.

This guy is making me want to sing Katy Perry's "Hot and Cold" all day long. UGH :BangHead:

Awww. :hug: I'm going through my own version of "Hot and Cold" with an INFJ right now, so I hear ya.

I think he still has feelings for you. Personally, I don't have any problems smiling and being nice with people I don't care about, but I can and have been the coldest b-tch from hell with my INFJ man.

So 1. Yes, you should definitely talk to him and 2. Talk to him for your own emotional safety. Be brief, to the point, sincere. No sarcasm. And don't expect a response back. Whichever way this goes, the bottom line is you want to be good coworkers again. CLEAR THE AIR. That's not needy. That's you being a mature adult and not wanting to work in an awkward, uncomfortable environment.

You'll get loads of points with him by bringing it up in the first place and things will begin to thaw and get better.
 

Into It

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That's an awesome vector, by the way. Did you make it?
 

thescientist

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So 1. Yes, you should definitely talk to him and 2. Talk to him for your own emotional safety. Be brief, to the point, sincere. No sarcasm. And don't expect a response back. Whichever way this goes, the bottom line is you want to be good coworkers again. CLEAR THE AIR. That's not needy. That's you being a mature adult and not wanting to work in an awkward, uncomfortable environment.

You'll get loads of points with him by bringing it up in the first place and things will begin to thaw and get better.

I wonder if talking about the issue is something that ENFP WOMEN welcome more than ENFP men...I'm just afraid of him pulling away even more if I start expressing my feelings about the tension. Any insight on discussing the issue when it comes to Male vs Female ENFPs? Would they both appreciate the honesty? Or will the ENFP man find it annoying and unnecessary to have the talk?

I really want to stress that I don't buy this for a second. I don't know any type more able to evaluate the seriousness of another's comments. An ENFP will be crushed by the INTP "mirror of truth," but general sarcasm is usually appreciated by ENFPs. I mean, does he really suck at volleyball and think about it a lot self-consciously? If so, your comment was pretty bitchy and I retract my statements. If he is at least halfway decent, he will recognize the sarcasm immediately (and probably appreciate the acronym as well ;))
I was definitely consistently sarcastic...but most of the sarcasm has been a friendly stab at HIM, whether they were true or not.


That's an awesome vector, by the way. Did you make it?
I do make vectors but this one is by another artist on deviant art. This is her gallery: rafajija on deviantART
 

Uytuun

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I'm not very happy with ENFPs at present and feel like it's not worth your trouble or pain (I suppose you're forced to seeing as he's a coworker, but otherwise, just walk away). Look at all the accomodating you're doing when this person is pouting in a corner like a little (cruel) child. The fuck.
 

thescientist

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So 1. Yes, you should definitely talk to him and 2. Talk to him for your own emotional safety. Be brief, to the point, sincere. No sarcasm. And don't expect a response back. Whichever way this goes, the bottom line is you want to be good coworkers again. CLEAR THE AIR. That's not needy. That's you being a mature adult and not wanting to work in an awkward, uncomfortable environment.

You'll get loads of points with him by bringing it up in the first place and things will begin to thaw and get better.
I wonder if talking about the issue is something that ENFP WOMEN welcome more than ENFP men...I'm just afraid of him pulling away even more if I start expressing my feelings about the tension. Any insight on discussing the issue when it comes to Male vs Female ENFPs? Would they both appreciate the honesty? Or will the ENFP man find it annoying and unnecessary to have the talk?

Anyone care to comment on the above?

I'm not very happy with ENFPs at present and feel like it's not worth your trouble or pain (I suppose you're forced to seeing as he's a coworker, but otherwise, just walk away). Look at all the accomodating you're doing when this person is pouting in a corner like a little (cruel) child. The fuck.

I just want to better understand their type and perhaps be more sensitive to how others take my sense of humor. Ultimately if he doesn't budge and continues the whole hot/cold thing I'll just have to ignore.
 

Kalach

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I wonder if talking about the issue is something that ENFP WOMEN welcome more than ENFP men...I'm just afraid of him pulling away even more if I start expressing my feelings about the tension. Any insight on discussing the issue when it comes to Male vs Female ENFPs? Would they both appreciate the honesty? Or will the ENFP man find it annoying and unnecessary to have the talk?

Um... no idea, really. I have an ENFP buddy and we do guy talk sometimes, and I also know an ENFP female, but she's really young. The only obvious difference I get from them is the guy really likes to try and make strategies for dealing with his harem.

Both of them really only make sense on any topic once they've (finally, after lots and lots and lots of waiting and accidents and sudden adventures) come to a strong position on what's right or wrong about the thing they're part of. Usually takes a long time.

And that's really why (a) you have to talk to them directly, and (b) when you start getting frustrated, remember to back off a little because they have their own processes to go through, lengthy and full of redundancies though they are.

Say it, get it out there, make it part of what's happening, back off for a while to go do some other work. FTW. IMO. ABC.
 

Economica

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I highly doubt he's in love with me or has deep feelings. Is there a possibility he is being cold with me because he's just not interested anymore? If he has lost interest, wouldnt approaching him about his aloofness come across as needy? If that's the case, should I make it clear that I'm fine with him not being interested, and that I just wanted to clear the air and make sure I didnt offend him?

I just want to be careful about how I express myself this time around

I'd say he's going to keep denying it till you level the playing field. No clue if you're up for that though, coz it means trusting him with some of your insecurities/vulnerabilities/feelings so he feels that what you know about him is matched by what he knows about you. It creates a special bond of trust.

+1.

It sounds to me like you're interested in him and scared to death of showing it without being 100% sure that he is just as interested in you. Here's the thing though: Love involves risks. You have to be willing to face rejection unless you are prepared to settle for someone so far beneath you that there is essentially no risk of it. :thumbdown:

He's already gone out on a limb by asking you out and kissing you, and even though on some level he probably knows that you like him since you accepted and kissed him back, he's been confused and/or turned off by the torrent of abuse it sounds like you've simultaneously sent his way.

My advice would be to 1) immediately discontinue the sarcasm and 2) be open and honest about how you feel towards him. You must acknowledge your weakness for him and resist your urge to deprecate him to make up for it. If you're not dying inside and visibly imploding from anxious embarrassment, you're not doing it right. ;) Judging by the information you have given in this thread, I'd say the odds are great that he will be endeared to you and give you another chance if you do get it right. :yes:

And if he does give you another chance, be sure to treat him right this time around. Tip: Shower him with physical affection to make up for your deficiencies in the verbal department.

This is 7 years of female INTJ/male ENFP experience talking, by the way. The relationship soured for a variety of reasons, but for the first few years it was a carefree growth experience. Enjoy! :)
 

Amargith

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I wonder if talking about the issue is something that ENFP WOMEN welcome more than ENFP men...I'm just afraid of him pulling away even more if I start expressing my feelings about the tension. Any insight on discussing the issue when it comes to Male vs Female ENFPs? Would they both appreciate the honesty? Or will the ENFP man find it annoying and unnecessary to have the talk?


I was definitely consistently sarcastic...but most of the sarcasm has been a friendly stab at HIM, whether they were true or not.


I doubt an ENFP male would find it unnecessary to talk *looks at her male brethren...right?*

Make sure you do this somewhere where he can be himself though, so he doesn't lose face by fessing up what's going on. Also, I'd recommend with starting with:

"Look, I'm not really good at all this sensitive stuff, so I could use some help here, but I really do like you." This should give him back his confidence, and push his 'knight-in-shining-armour'-button.

Then explain that you were being sarcastic and just messing about, and tell him why you did that! Tell him it's your way of dealing with the feelings he's stirred up in you, and that the fact that you do in fact look for contact with him, is your way of showing him that you actually like him.

He might ask a couple of verifying questions still, but by this time he should be having a big grin from the flattery and completely defrosted, I'd say (unless he's one of those immature, jaded ones).

Again...that means putting yourself emotionally at risk. And only you can decide if he's worth it. But it should clear the air..and potentially clear the way for more.

I'll see Economica's 7 years and raise you 3. ENFP-INTJ is a very satisfying connection, if you can make it work and if both partners are mature enough to be appreciate each others differences.
 

Economica

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I'd recommend with starting with:

"Look, I'm not really good at all this sensitive stuff, so I could use some help here, but I really do like you." This should give him back his confidence, and push his 'knight-in-shining-armour'-button.

Then explain that you were being sarcastic and just messing about, and tell him why you did that! Tell him it's your way of dealing with the feelings he's stirred up in you, and that the fact that you do in fact look for contact with him, is your way of showing him that you actually like him.

He might ask a couple of verifying questions still, but by this time he should be having a big grin from the flattery and completely defrosted, I'd say (unless he's one of those immature, jaded ones).

Again...that means putting yourself emotionally at risk.

+1. :yes:

Listen to the 17 years. :D
 

runvardh

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Yeah, good choice. Speak as he hasn't manned up to it. Make sure he understands that his mouth can be used for meaningful communication as well.
 

Strawberrylover

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Love involves risks. You have to be willing to face rejection unless you are prepared to settle for someone so far beneath you that there is essentially no risk of it. :thumbdown:

...

My advice would be to 1) immediately discontinue the sarcasm and 2) be open and honest about how you feel towards him. You must acknowledge your weakness for him and resist your urge to deprecate him to make up for it. If you're not dying inside and visibly imploding from anxious embarrassment, you're not doing it right. ;)

+ 100 :yes:

There really needs to be a "rock star headbangin" emoticon, because I loved loved loved this post. :) Especially the very last bit. Ahh love.
 

supern

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THE MAIN IDEAS IN THIS THREAD ARE WRONG!

Many a girl throw themselves at the ENFP boy, and the ENFP boy loses interest in many a girl. It happens every day.

You must manipulate him in the coldest way to win his heart. First, reject him. This will drive him wild. Then, hold him between rejection and acceptance. He'll love it and will love you for it.

This seems evil but really you're doing him a sadistic service that he'll find intensely pleasurable and that only the most worthy girl can deliver. :D He might just marry you.

NOW GO FORTH AND CONQUER!
 

Economica

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You must manipulate him in the coldest way to win his heart. First, reject him. This will drive him wild. Then, hold him between rejection and acceptance. He'll love it and will love you for it.

This seems evil but really you're doing him a sadistic service that he'll find intensely pleasurable and that only the most worthy girl can deliver. :D He might just marry you.

Uh, she's INTJ. The cold part of the hot/cold act is second nature, as she has demonstrated. The problem would seem to be that she took it too far.

(I don't necessarily accept your premise, btw. I'm just going with it.)

Edit: I just saw that you're brand new to the board. Welcome! :bye: A word of advice from a regular: You might want to tweak the "you're all wrong, AND WHAT I HAVE TO SAY IS SO IMPORTANT THAT I GET TO POST IN ALL CAPS" approach. ;)
 
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