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[ENFP] INTJ trying to understand an ENFP's actions

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
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I don't want to be mean towards anyone but the fact is that ENFP sometimes simply do not act in a logical way (and they are even proud of it).
So if you are trying to place him into a logical framework you could be making a mistake.

This is true when I'm being silly but far from true when I'm pulled back down to reality. We are also very capable of being logical.
 

Amargith

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Ouch. Of course, context is everything, but this sounds likes a hurtful comment, especially if made in front of others. You might have not only hurt his feelings, but also embarrassed him in front of colleagues, hence the ENFP shield went up and he became defensive because he felt publicly ripped (even though you say you didn't mean it that way). ENFPs are sensitive - we might keep it inside because we have Fi but we are definitely sensitive...



He feels attacked so is responding in kind. Curious - what was your "tone" in your comment - ENFPs will respond more to the tone of the message even more than what is actually being said a lot of times. If the tone AND message both ripped him, you definitely have a hurt ENFP on your hands.




Yes. Most definitely.



Great idea... Most ENFPs are verrrryyy forgiving if approached with authenticity and a sincere apology...

I know you didn't mean to hurt his feelings, but for some reason you struck a nerve with your comment I think, and hurt his feelings, and then he began his distancing behavior (self protection/preservation).

I don't think it's anyone's *fault* just a T/F inadvertant clash. I think there is definitely hope! =) We ENFPs do enjoy playful witty banter but usually not at anyone's expense - especially at our own expense in front of work colleagues. Again, I know your intentions were good. =) Definitely talk to him and clear it up. We ENFPs forgive and bounce back quickly once we *understand* the other person's perspective... =) Good luck I am rooting for you!

+1 Good post.

Tip: if you make a sarcastic comment, especially if you don't know us that well yet, for the love of God smile! That way we get to enjoy the joke too, instead of recoiling.
Took me a year to get the female INTJ in our group at college to grasp that concept, but once she learned, her rep a bitch diminished instantly :D
 

seeker22

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This is true when I'm being silly but far from true when I'm pulled back down to reality. We are also very capable of being logical.

Agreed. Illogical and random is fun for silly time... However, in every day "reality" I have an extremely logical, methodical side - a grounded side if you will.
 

thescientist

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Wow, I'm so glad to have gotten so many responses. Thanks so much for your feedback everyone.

Ditto with everyone else who suggested talking to him, but I also wanted to ask for clarification purposes:

What happened on that last date? Did you detect any coldness from him then? When did you start detecting that he was becoming emotionally withdrawn? If you think clearly and put yourself in his shoes, have you been not responsive and cold to his reaching out to you?

You don't have to answer these questions here, but they might help you get a clear picture of what's going on.

Our last date was when he kissed me. It went great. He initiated. After that, he continued to flirt and kiss me at work, but never asked me out again.

I don't know what happened in your particular instance, but I will say that I've often found INTJ sarcasm very offputting until about the 1000th or more time where I just quit taking it seriously at all and quit giving a ____. BUT it took me 1000 or more times to get there, and it still will piss me off if I'm not consciously thinking/remembering to not take it at all seriously.

I've been very sarcastic with him, especially after our last date. I'm trying to think back when the coldness started. I made a comment in front of male colleagues. Usually all of my sarcasm is in front of coworkers because we sit in the same row. I can see now how that could have been a very BAD thing. There was one time he even told me he thought it wasnt funny, but I thought maybe he was over that incident. I just didnt think much of it.

Is it bad that I called him sensitive in front of the coworkers? It was playfully intended. Wow...I cant believe how much all of this could have been taken the wrong way. I guess I need to lay off on my biting sense of humor...

Mmm, you hit a nerve with that joking comment. His insecurity showed in his response, I'd say. Which would suggest that he believes you judge him on something and therefore dont like/respect/value him in some way.

I think he may feel that I've judged him. He's mentioned to me he HATES it when people judge him.


He feels attacked so is responding in kind. Curious - what was your "tone" in your comment - ENFPs will respond more to the tone of the message even more than what is actually being said a lot of times. If the tone AND message both ripped him, you definitely have a hurt ENFP on your hands.
I always say things with a smirk. I dunno. But then again I probably dont realize how I come off to others.

Great idea... Most ENFPs are verrrryyy forgiving if approached with authenticity and a sincere apology...

I don't think it's anyone's *fault* just a T/F inadvertant clash. I think there is definitely hope! =) We ENFPs do enjoy playful witty banter but usually not at anyone's expense - especially at our own expense in front of work colleagues. Again, I know your intentions were good. =) Definitely talk to him and clear it up. We ENFPs forgive and bounce back quickly once we *understand* the other person's perspective... =) Good luck I am rooting for you!
This is so nice to hear. I really hope he hears me out. Thank you very much...so there's still hope to clear the air...

Unfortunately, I'm going on vacation for a week so I cant have the talk with him right now...I wonder how things will be when I return...
 

Clonester

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Yeah, I agree. Seems like he is fizzling you out. I would ask sooner rather than later. The more time he spends away from you, the more he may think to himself, "wait a sec, maybe we COULD work!" And then, you will be back on the roller coaster of "what could be" only to end up where you are now all over again.

Bingo. Ask him where you stand. If he thinks there may still be something there, the problem can be worked out (doesn't matter who caused the problem). ENFP's are reasonable, IME.
 

Nonsensical

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Talk to him. He will appreciate the intimacy of it and that you were the one to reach out, we always like that. Tell him how you feel about him, even if he knows, and tell him what you told us.

I'd love to give you better advice, but I can't muster it. I do feel like this is the best approach and if he liked you enough to go on a few dates with you, then I'm sure it wouldn't take much to get your relationship, whatever it may be, back in track.

Good luck!
 

Strawberrylover

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There was one time he even told me he thought it wasnt funny, but I thought maybe he was over that incident. I just didnt think much of it.

This just made me cringe. Sounds like he was trying to be as blunt with you as possible without exploding to your face, and you didn't get it. Thank goodness there's the Typology forums. Saves relationships, coworkers and puppies. You'll be alright. Just have a talk at some point.
 

Little Linguist

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As a little side note, I too often try to understand my actions.

If you figure it out, let me know. :newwink:

Nah, but seriously, Antisocial One, I was not implying that you meant 'always' by 'sometimes,' and I admit that is often the case when I'm in the so-called 'silly mode.' I just wanted to clarify because otherwise people might walk away and think holy......Well, yeah...

:D No worries.
 

thescientist

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This just made me cringe. Sounds like he was trying to be as blunt with you as possible without exploding to your face, and you didn't get it. Thank goodness there's the Typology forums. Saves relationships, coworkers and puppies. You'll be alright. Just have a talk at some point.
Yes, that time actually caught me by surprise. It was the one time he expressed it verbally. But I told him it was just a joke, and that's when he said well, I didnt find it funny. So I proceeded to say something along the lines of "see I knew you were sensitive, you're a total feeler." To which I couldnt really interpret his reaction afterward. We just continued conversing.

What's odd is that i've sent him text messages after i've said something that could have possibly been hurtful telling him I hope it didnt offend him, and he always replies, "no not at all". is he just trying to play the tough guy part? or trying to be non-confrontational?

I also remember on one of the dates I was trying to be cautious and said "I havent gauged your sensitivity level yet (knowing he was ENFP)." To which he responded, "dont worry, I'm senseless". Somehow I didnt believe him, but I guess I took his word for it! Big mistake.
 

Lady_X

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Ouch. Of course, context is everything, but this sounds likes a hurtful comment, especially if made in front of others. You might have not only hurt his feelings, but also embarrassed him in front of colleagues, hence the ENFP shield went up and he became defensive because he felt publicly ripped (even though you say you didn't mean it that way). ENFPs are sensitive - we might keep it inside because we have Fi but we are definitely sensitive...



He feels attacked so is responding in kind. Curious - what was your "tone" in your comment - ENFPs will respond more to the tone of the message even more than what is actually being said a lot of times. If the tone AND message both ripped him, you definitely have a hurt ENFP on your hands.




Yes. Most definitely.



Great idea... Most ENFPs are verrrryyy forgiving if approached with authenticity and a sincere apology...

I know you didn't mean to hurt his feelings, but for some reason you struck a nerve with your comment I think, and hurt his feelings, and then he began his distancing behavior (self protection/preservation).

I don't think it's anyone's *fault* just a T/F inadvertant clash. I think there is definitely hope! =) We ENFPs do enjoy playful witty banter but usually not at anyone's expense - especially at our own expense in front of work colleagues. Again, I know your intentions were good. =) Definitely talk to him and clear it up. We ENFPs forgive and bounce back quickly once we *understand* the other person's perspective... =) Good luck I am rooting for you!

yep totally true. a lot of that attitude or aloofness you'll see is some subconscious self protection thing...you can't hurt me if i don't care thing...sounds like that might be what it is.
 

Strawberrylover

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@Scientist

I don't know if you've seen the thread on ENFPs taking on personas. That's our protective shell that we present to the world a happy-go-lucky personality of FUN and ADVENTURE!!

I can totally see my male ENFP friend saying "don't worry, I'm senseless" instead of being more honest. You guys have only been on a few dates -- not enough time to completely trust someone with who you really are. You're still sniffing each other out.

It sounds like he doesn't completely trust you to tone down the sarcasm. You did it more than once, so why should he believe that your behavior will change? My advice: Talk with him AND at the same time tone down the sarcasm and be consistent. It's good that you're insightful about all this. Hope everything works out. :)
 

Charmed Justice

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Some friends suggested just ignoring him seeing as he used me just for an ego boost while he was clearly uninterested.

Are ENFP's vengeful? I dont know why I sense this from him. If I ignore him, it's almost like he'll try to ignore me twice as much or be unusually cold with me.

:doh: i hate this....

ENFP's can be vengeful, but we have to have a real deeply felt reason for being so(pain that we can feel).

Maybe he felt offended by something you did. I'd def ask if I were you.

Then again-
It is common for us to loose romantic interest in someone quickly, but when we loose interest, I have never known it to be in a manner that feels unkind or hurtful.....but also, I personally have acted the way your guy is acting towards people I was deeply(and maybe reluctantly) in love with. I don't know rather that's an ENFP thing, or just a me thing, but I have effectively pushed away people for whom my affections for seemed overwhelming and I felt as though I was literally melting into the very soul of the person. That being said, it sounds like your sarcasm is a bit much for him, and him saying "No, not at all"(I say this all the time) could just be a knee jerk response to avoid conflict.
 

thescientist

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It is common for us to loose romantic interest in someone quickly, but when we loose interest, I have never known it to be in a manner that feels unkind or hurtful.....but also, I personally have acted the way your guy is acting towards people I was deeply(and maybe reluctantly) in love with. I don't know rather that's an ENFP thing, or just a me thing, but I have effectively pushed away people for whom my affections for seemed overwhelming and I felt as though I was literally melting into the very soul of the person. That being said, it sounds like your sarcasm is a bit much for him, and him saying "No, not at all"(I say this all the time) could just be a knee jerk response to avoid conflict.

I highly doubt he's in love with me or has deep feelings. Is there a possibility he is being cold with me because he's just not interested anymore? If he has lost interest, wouldnt approaching him about his aloofness come across as needy? If that's the case, should I make it clear that I'm fine with him not being interested, and that I just wanted to clear the air and make sure I didnt offend him?

I just want to be careful about how I express myself this time around.

So I'm going on vacation for a whole week and wont be able to talk to him until I get back (if things are still weird when I get back). He sent me a text today to give me a tip about the museums I'll be visiting, which I thought was unexpected. Could he be trying to make up for being cold with me the day before? He again completely ignored me when I left work and said, "Well I'm off to NY".. He just replied "have a good trip" w/o even looking at me. That one really stung :eek:uch:...It was so weird because just a few minutes before that, he and I along with another coworker were conversing and it was fun and friendly.

This guy is making me want to sing Katy Perry's "Hot and Cold" all day long. UGH :BangHead:
 

secondhandsight

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I think he may be doubting if there could ever be
a comfortable acceptance of his sensitivity (in relation
to your 'I knew you were sensitive' comment), and
probably is in fear of being being coldly analyzed
by someone who might have the sardonic logical
upper hand in any discourse (as he may see it).

I'd wager that the opening stages of any relationship
are tricky for an ENFP, in that their gauging of you
is emotional and necessarily under-critical (in my
experience ENFPs hold off on critical analysis, both
building it and sharing it, until they achieve a certain
level of trust with you, all in aid of their warm-hearted
ways I gather :)). The only way to circumnavigate
all this and avoid playing that Katy Perry track is
to open up the debate board gently, offering honest
thoughts and feelings, as has been offered already.
Nothing succeeds like gentle honesty with any of
the ENFPs I've known anyway! Best of luck.
 

Amargith

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I'd also wager that he could've taken your oh you're a feeler -comment as a blow to his sensitivity and masculinity. No doubt he tries to cover it up, especially at work as...well it's not exactly the right place nor is he according to society the right gender for it. If you blew his cover on top of that, or if he's scared that you might do so..he's acting very much the opposite to minimize the damage (+ potential self-denial as a defensive reaction).

I'd say he's going to keep denying it till you level the playing field. No clue if you're up for that though, coz it means trusting him with some of your insecurities/vulnerabilities/feelings so he feels that what you know about him is matched by what he knows about you. It creates a special bond of trust.
 

sonata

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It is common for us to loose romantic interest in someone quickly, but when we loose interest, I have never known it to be in a manner that feels unkind or hurtful.....but also, I personally have acted the way your guy is acting towards people I was deeply(and maybe reluctantly) in love with. I don't know rather that's an ENFP thing, or just a me thing, but I have effectively pushed away people for whom my affections for seemed overwhelming and I felt as though I was literally melting into the very soul of the person.

-commences obnoxious jump into this thread in hopes of further ENFP comprehension- Could you (or any ENFP here) elaborate on some of this? What makes you lose interest? Does it happen in an established relationship, where you just decide one day you aren't that into the person anymore, or is it just during the opening stages where you two are flirting?

On the whole pushing away people for whom you feel too much: is there anything that person could do to start or reverse that cycle?
 

Mondo

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It's tough to say what happened.
Do you think you did anything to hurt his feelings?
Whatever his type is, he sounds like an insecure guy.

I guess calling him sensitive could be a blow to his masculine ego.
He doesn't sound like a guy you want to be with anyway.
 
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