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  1. #141
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    I would love to tell him the true reasons why he flirts are just to validate himself and to feed his ego...that it's completely unhealthy and potentially hurtful to others if taken too far. This to me would be the ideal closure, but there are a lot of risks involved so I'm not sure if it's the best choice. I'll assess that as time passes. Like Lethe said...play it by ear.
    An ENFP chick I was interested in a while back was doing some seriously weird ethical manoeuvrings to justify the odd relationship she was attached to (married guy with a wife and kid, guy was going to leave his wife, planned timetable, 7 years, happiness would ensue, he was a great man, made her think, tolerated her temper, heaven awaited all).

    But all of that was bullshit, and at some level she knew it, but not at a level that admitted some guy like me saying so to her face.

    People do their stupid things for reasons. They're usually deeply attached to their reasons. And one day they stop being deeply attached to their reasons and they pull some 180 turn like nothing happened. But much to my dismay as a Course Charter I have yet to see a person turn that corner just by being told the corner is there.


    I think you can call an ENFP on their bullshit if they're in a place where they want to be called on their bullshit by you. And every one of them I have met IRL thus far will always and every time only ever take the call under advisement. One wins next to nothing until they decide for themselves.

  2. #142
    Senior Member thescientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    She's outing him? I approve. He fits the profile of a closet denier.
    I would definitely agree about the closet denier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    People do their stupid things for reasons. They're usually deeply attached to their reasons. And one day they stop being deeply attached to their reasons and they pull some 180 turn like nothing happened. But much to my dismay as a Course Charter I have yet to see a person turn that corner just by being told the corner is there.

    I think you can call an ENFP on their bullshit if they're in a place where they want to be called on their bullshit by you. And every one of them I have met IRL thus far will always and every time only ever take the call under advisement. One wins next to nothing until they decide for themselves.
    To out him or not to out him? What if I do it for my own sake, for closure? It would be done in a mature and diplomatic fashion, not a bitter and upset one. Wouldn't an ENFP care that I'm hurt about the whole thing?

    Still debating this...Opinions?

  3. #143
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    ... FYI I still stand by my posts in this thread.

    I haven't read the rest of the thread in detail, but you haven't done anything like what Amargith and I (the ones with actual experience with the INTJ-ENFP match edit: forgot about Lethe, sorry! (and others?) ) were talking about, have you?

    I hope this adventure ends well for you.

  4. #144
    Senior Member thescientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    ... FYI I still stand by my posts in this thread.

    I haven't read the rest of the thread in detail, but you haven't done anything like what Amargith and I (the ones with actual experience with the INTJ-ENFP match edit: forgot about Lethe, sorry! (and others?) ) were talking about, have you?

    I hope this adventure ends well for you.
    Have you read from page 13 on? There are some very important updates there, where I come to an epiphany about the whole thing.

    I do value yours and others insight because of your experience, but after knowing what I know now, is the talk still worth the trouble? I'm assuming you're going to say yes?

  5. #145
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    Have you read from page 13 on? There are some very important updates there, where I come to an epiphany about the whole thing.

    I do value yours and others insight because of your experience, but after knowing what I know now, is the talk still worth the trouble? I'm assuming you're going to say yes?
    Yeah, I skim read it, and I think you're rationalizing. It's what we do when we're vulnerable and scared and trying to protect ourselves.

    (I wrote more about that feeling here in case anyone's interested.)

  6. #146
    Senior Member thescientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Yeah, I skim read it, and I think you're rationalizing. It's what we do when we're vulnerable and scared and trying to protect ourselves.
    wow, for some reason, that tugged an emotional string just now.

  7. #147
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    To out him or not to out him? What if I do it for my own sake, for closure? It would be done in a mature and diplomatic fashion, not a bitter and upset one. Wouldn't an ENFP care that I'm hurt about the whole thing?

    Still debating this...Opinions?
    My own experience is it goes badly when you try to get other people to provide you with closure. He'll have his own case for hurt, and it'll be something like he's really, really sensitive and no one should try to hold him down, or something, and some part of his case will actually be true despite him being a big girl's blouse.

    It's counter intuitive, but really the only way forward, given that you have to see him at work, is to chill out inside and let it go. E's can be really kind of assholes at times like this, they've got the stamina for making their mark on the public environment, which also happens to be your environment, so they make it hard to shut them out.

    I dunno. Are you able to talk as equals, or are you both on the run from hurt? If you do end up talking to him, straight forward "I" statements would be better than "you" accusations.

    Get some better friends, is maybe the only good way forward.

    You can.


  8. #148
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    wow, for some reason, that tugged an emotional string just now.


    I think his actions sound very compatible with him liking you (if he's attracted to you physically (and he obviously is), then seriously, you've got great odds that he would like you very much indeed, INTJ-ENFP being the match that it is) but not thinking that (or being confused about whether) you like him back.

    There are no guarantees in love, and you'd definitely be taking an emotional risk by giving Amargith's and my recommendation a shot... But your odds are so good that if you don't take this shot, I think you'll kick yourself when looking back someday.

    I suggest you try approaching him a few times with a heartfelt smile and a positive comment and see if his reaction isn't positive enough (even if he's initially wary) to give you the courage to take him aside and make yourself vulnerable to him by letting him know you really do like him.

    Edit: Wow, that's some contradictory advice you're getting here!

  9. #149
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    My own experience is it goes badly when you try to get other people to provide you with closure. He'll have his own case for hurt, and it'll be something like he's really, really sensitive and no one should try to hold him down, or something, and some part of his case will actually be true despite him being a big girl's blouse.

    It's counter intuitive, but really the only way forward, given that you have to see him at work, is to chill out inside and let it go. E's can be really kind of assholes at times like this, they've got the stamina for making their mark on the public environment, which also happens to be your environment, so they make it hard to shut them out.

    I dunno. Are you able to talk as equals, or are you both on the run from hurt? If you do end up talking to him, straight forward "I" statements would be better than "you" accusations.
    I agree with all of this, particularly the bolded parts.
    __________________


    I'M OUTTA HERE.

    IT'S BEEN FUN.

    TAKE CARE.

    PEACE OUT!!!


  10. #150
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Hey, Scientist?

    I'm trying to think of a message here. Something about this many people getting invested in advising you might seem a bit like a lot of pressure. I know I've chosen polarised language in some of my posts, too. But I'd also like to say that whatever else, tomorrow is a new day.


    That sounded meaningful when I thought it. Maybe it lost some poetry in the typing.


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