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[ENFJ] ENFJ self-image as exemplary human being

Varelse

Wait, what?
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Apr 25, 2007
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An ENFJ male that I know does seem to see himself as exemplary. He's a nice guy and all, but he often comes across as a bit pompous and self-important. Interestingly, he's a priest as well.

In some ways he makes a good role model/father figure type, but in other ways I think he could use a bit of examining the straws in his own eyes if you know what I mean... sometimes he can seem a bit of a hypocrite because he talks about wanting to help people and he's all for cheering people up and helping with their problems, but in reality if you try to talk to him about a problem he always seems to focus on just wanting to cheer you up, when you might not WANT to cheer up right now, you just want to be heard. I suspect it's because he just needs the mood to be happy and light all the time and can't handle people 'getting intense'.
I've seen some of that in an ENFJ as well. Somewhat of trying to fix people, without realizing that the behavior involved in such wasn't fixing anything at all.

Also, assertions of moral and spiritual superiority, which greatly annoyed me. And a lack of self-examination, seemingly because of an inability to deal with his own faults.
 

INTJMom

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...Also, assertions of moral and spiritual superiority, which greatly annoyed me. And a lack of self-examination, seemingly because of an inability to deal with his own faults.
Isn't that sort of the description of human pride in general?
I would think all types are capable of that,
though it may manifest itself differently in the different types.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
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Am I arrogant? Yes probably. However unlike NTs such a label causes me internal distress. I find arrogance outside of my ideal. I would strive for humility though I do often fail especially when my plan/agenda works perfectly.

That sentence is hilariously awesome. :party2:

A personality type driven to be their best and to be a good role model, could on average, reasonably come closer to this goal than types that don't invest the same effort.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
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I think the whole idea of types relate to WHAT each type thinks as best. For some, a person, for others, something else. I don't think it's away from other's happiness if there is a socially active, pleasant ENFJ or any other type who also thinks he/she is setting a good example.
 

Varelse

Wait, what?
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Isn't that sort of the description of human pride in general?
I would think all types are capable of that,
though it may manifest itself differently in the different types.
True. I just tend to be too unsure, and aware of my own faults, to consider myself some paragon of humanity, so when someone does consider themselves such, it grates.
 

Lookin4theBestNU

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I found the perfect gift for the ENFJ in your life!!

happybunnywb4.gif


Toonia said:
That sentence is hilariously awesome.
I didn't think anyone would notice it lol. YAAAAAAAA Toonia!!
 

The Third Rider

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Well I try my best to improve upon my weaknesess and that is one of the reason I why I read everything I can about ENFj's to find out what I can improve upon from how others perceive me. I am sort of a perfectionist and I tend to get really annoyed and pissed off when things don't go as I had planned or people that try to stop/slow me down me from my goals. As far as being an example I try my best at my job, when someone new starts at my job my boss picks me 90% of the time for me to teach them all I can and I become friends with nearly all the guys at my office.
 

Theory

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What's funny is how I always hear about how ENFJs are supposedly so perfectionistic, and yet that couldn't be further from the truth for me. Yes, I'm very organized and detail-oriented, but generally, my principle is "Well, I'll give it a go, and if I fail, that's okay. I just want do to my best and have as much fun as possible."

Any other ENFJs feel the same way?
 

Lookin4theBestNU

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I've grudgingly accepted that I will never meet my own expectations for 'perfection'. I think doing my best and having fun is a great way to describe my overall attitude.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
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An ENFJ male that I know does seem to see himself as exemplary. He's a nice guy and all, but he often comes across as a bit pompous and self-important. Interestingly, he's a priest as well.

In some ways he makes a good role model/father figure type, but in other ways I think he could use a bit of examining the straws in his own eyes if you know what I mean... sometimes he can seem a bit of a hypocrite because he talks about wanting to help people and he's all for cheering people up and helping with their problems, but in reality if you try to talk to him about a problem he always seems to focus on just wanting to cheer you up, when you might not WANT to cheer up right now, you just want to be heard. I suspect it's because he just needs the mood to be happy and light all the time and can't handle people 'getting intense'.

Hmmm...I must have missed this post. Can you explain what you mean by "getting intense"?

I've thought about the bolded part before. For me, I think that since I have a tendency to absorb and reflect the emotional temperature of my surroundings I try to keep my surroundings in the positive to neutral zone. It's not intensity that bothers me, it's negative emotion just stewing and simmering. I can handle emotional upheavals as long as they return to normal relatively quickly. This is when I actively try to stabilize the situation (maybe this is what your friend is doing?) When I notice myself doing this, it's for self-protection because I need to keep my core stable. I feel other people's emotions pressing in on me and if I don't change the temperature I'll become overwhelmed.
 

INTJMom

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What's funny is how I always hear about how ENFJs are supposedly so perfectionistic, and yet that couldn't be further from the truth for me. Yes, I'm very organized and detail-oriented, but generally, my principle is "Well, I'll give it a go, and if I fail, that's okay. I just want do to my best and have as much fun as possible."

Any other ENFJs feel the same way?
I have an ENFJ son who has been known to break things from the frustration of failing to reach his goal of perfection.

This is the toughest thing for me to help him with. I struggle with perfectionism, too so I know how it feels.
 

Littlelostnf

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Apr 23, 2007
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I've never gotten upset because I'm not perfect (impossible). I'd say I've gotten more upset at the imperfections I see in the world. Now THAT is frustrating. I want to do something about what I see but I know that I can't fix anything. I have to say that's more frustrating than me not being perfect. I suppose because I try to be the best I can be I just want everyone to do that, but I'm not so far gone as to think I can be perfect or that anyone else could be...just that maybe they'd like to try...
 

Totenkindly

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Comments about the Bachelor (potential ENFJ?) moved here.
 

Theory

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I've never gotten upset because I'm not perfect (impossible). I'd say I've gotten more upset at the imperfections I see in the world. Now THAT is frustrating. I want to do something about what I see but I know that I can't fix anything. I have to say that's more frustrating than me not being perfect. I suppose because I try to be the best I can be I just want everyone to do that, but I'm not so far gone as to think I can be perfect or that anyone else could be...just that maybe they'd like to try...

Exactly.
 

Stanton Moore

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the ENFJ I know best is very hard working, very nurturing, empathetic, loving to family and friends and has strong values. She seems to feel that she is the 'mother' when among friends and others seems OK with this. At the same time, she can be fragile and need TLC over perceived slights.
Her empathy is worthy of admiration. One time we were driving down the street, and she pulled over to offer a ride to homeless man who was walking with a crutch.
So yeah, I think she is an 'exemplar' in many ways...
 

Adasta

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There is an element of truth in the OP within this context but it might not be correct to say that ENFJs think they are the best. I think it might be more that they think everyone else is worse, or unreliable, or simply less productive. The quotations which I hear from my ENFJ on this subject are:

  • 'My way is the best way!' - This is said as a joke, but we all know it's intended as the truth!
  • 'It's not that you're disorganised, it's just that I am more organised' - There is a modicum of truth here, but it's the implication that everyone else is a huge slacker which is irksome. I'm happy for someone else to plan, but then there is a feeling of exploitation, as if the ENFJ always has to be the planner, which is not true. However, if someone else were to plan, it would not be good enough. An irritating circle if there ever were one!
  • 'If I didn't do things, things would never get done' - A blatant over-exaggeration, but seems to augment ENFJ desires to be the action-oriented, "doer". Again, there's no problem with this, other than the implication of others' ineptitude.

The problem with ENFJ idealism only appears when the ENFJ is aggressively pursuing self-improvement to the point of denigrating others. As an INFP, people often let me down (they don't match up to my internal ideal of humanity). However, I get the feeling an ENFJ feels a stronger compulsion to show everyone just how "great" they are/can be if they witness this shortcoming, whereas I don't feel that urge (because I know how good I am/can be, and I am not obligated to do anything for these ungrateful plebeians! :D).

The difficulty is when the ENFJ's behaviour implies their own greatness when compared to the lacklustre nature of everyone else. If this aspect is curbed, or not present, then ENFJ's can be quite inspiring, since they're usually good at setting goals and eventually achieving them. The problem for ENFJs is that they seem to worry constantly about everything. Having so much nervous energy, they dispense it through physical action, which seems helpful to them (and can be helpful in reality) but can also make them seem like a "busybody". However, since I understand they are trying to seek perfection (as I am, just in a different way), I recognise this behaviour and try not to feel too bad if they slight me.

Essentially, the arrogance the OP suggested is present in ENFJs seems to me to be a manifestation of their desire to display the perfection they wish to see in the world. However, this perfection seems based on order, planning, and getting all of the details right so as to make this internal vision manifest. If you are seen to be antagonistic to these goals, then perhaps the "ENFJ backlash" is perceived as arrogance.
 

skylights

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Some people are very much comfortable not being the best they can be and see no reason to try. These aren't bad or unambitious people, that's just not one of their life goals. It's strange really, when I try to talk about it and I get blank stares.

the ENFJs i know have a very good idea of who they are and who they would like to be. and that's very admirable, but maybe it would help explain your surprise to point out that ENFJs don't seem to need/want to go through the same identity quest that many of us have to go through - or, at least, it manifests quite differently. so while i agree that some people just really don't care, other people are stuck at a place of not having chosen who they want to be. like, it's not always clear what improvement would be, or at least how it can be gone about. i think that almost everyone does try to improve themselves, but not everyone goes about it in the way that an ENFJ does.

There is a modicum of truth here, but it's the implication that everyone else is a huge slacker which is irksome. [...] if someone else were to plan, it would not be good enough. An irritating circle if there ever were one!

yeah. this is the way i feel about ENFJ "arrogance" too. one of my absolute favorite people is an ENFJ, but this is true about her. i admire her efforts to be the best she can be but there's the lingering implication that everyone else isn't as good as she is. it's just hard sometimes to get along with someone who thinks they know best most, if not all, the time.

i think ENFJs are even more appealing/attractive when they let you see a hint of the insecurity/worry behind the perfection... brings you guys back down to just-above-human level ;)
 

ExAstrisSpes

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For me, I have this idea of who I want to be, what I want to be like. What the "ideal me" is like.

I really try to live up to that ideal, and to be honest it's quite nebulous what that ideal is sometimes.

It's not motivated out of "oh I need to be a role model for other human beings" or any sort of social motivation like that. It's more of, "I want to reach my personal potential of being human". I really love Star Trek because I feel what it's really about is a group of imperfect people aiming to improve and better themselves (at least TNG was).

I can be really hard on myself when reality doesn't quite meet my ideal. I know it's an ideal, but I think my goals are somewhat reasonable and I'm really hard on myself when sometimes I'm way off.
 

rav3n

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My ENFJ friend does this. She has an idealised version of who she is and what the world should look like. And she's really quick to point this out! :laugh:
 

JoSunshine

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I actually struggle with the whole concept of ENFJ arrogance. I definitely DON'T think I am the best at everything and am usually fine with other people (OK, admittedly mostly other J's :newwink:) planning things. I love just being able to show up!

However...as part of my ENFJ ideals, I think it is important for people to admit their flaws, relinquish control, be humble and understand that every person from the trash collector to the president has a unique and important purpose - we are all cogs in the machine that is humanity. The thing that I struggle with is people who ARE self-important and arrogant, but then I wonder if I am guilty of being arrogant about not being arrogant. I don't even know if that makes sense, but I drive myself nuts thinking about it :huh:
 
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