User Tag List

First 2345 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 41

  1. #31
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    5,349

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Theory View Post
    What's funny is how I always hear about how ENFJs are supposedly so perfectionistic, and yet that couldn't be further from the truth for me. Yes, I'm very organized and detail-oriented, but generally, my principle is "Well, I'll give it a go, and if I fail, that's okay. I just want do to my best and have as much fun as possible."

    Any other ENFJs feel the same way?
    I have an ENFJ son who has been known to break things from the frustration of failing to reach his goal of perfection.

    This is the toughest thing for me to help him with. I struggle with perfectionism, too so I know how it feels.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    644

    Default

    I've never gotten upset because I'm not perfect (impossible). I'd say I've gotten more upset at the imperfections I see in the world. Now THAT is frustrating. I want to do something about what I see but I know that I can't fix anything. I have to say that's more frustrating than me not being perfect. I suppose because I try to be the best I can be I just want everyone to do that, but I'm not so far gone as to think I can be perfect or that anyone else could be...just that maybe they'd like to try...
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  3. #33
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Comments about the Bachelor (potential ENFJ?) moved here.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #34
    Member Theory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelostnf View Post
    I've never gotten upset because I'm not perfect (impossible). I'd say I've gotten more upset at the imperfections I see in the world. Now THAT is frustrating. I want to do something about what I see but I know that I can't fix anything. I have to say that's more frustrating than me not being perfect. I suppose because I try to be the best I can be I just want everyone to do that, but I'm not so far gone as to think I can be perfect or that anyone else could be...just that maybe they'd like to try...
    Exactly.

  5. #35
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,859

    Default

    the ENFJ I know best is very hard working, very nurturing, empathetic, loving to family and friends and has strong values. She seems to feel that she is the 'mother' when among friends and others seems OK with this. At the same time, she can be fragile and need TLC over perceived slights.
    Her empathy is worthy of admiration. One time we were driving down the street, and she pulled over to offer a ride to homeless man who was walking with a crutch.
    So yeah, I think she is an 'exemplar' in many ways...

  6. #36
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    394

    Default

    There is an element of truth in the OP within this context but it might not be correct to say that ENFJs think they are the best. I think it might be more that they think everyone else is worse, or unreliable, or simply less productive. The quotations which I hear from my ENFJ on this subject are:

    • 'My way is the best way!' - This is said as a joke, but we all know it's intended as the truth!
    • 'It's not that you're disorganised, it's just that I am more organised' - There is a modicum of truth here, but it's the implication that everyone else is a huge slacker which is irksome. I'm happy for someone else to plan, but then there is a feeling of exploitation, as if the ENFJ always has to be the planner, which is not true. However, if someone else were to plan, it would not be good enough. An irritating circle if there ever were one!
    • 'If I didn't do things, things would never get done' - A blatant over-exaggeration, but seems to augment ENFJ desires to be the action-oriented, "doer". Again, there's no problem with this, other than the implication of others' ineptitude.


    The problem with ENFJ idealism only appears when the ENFJ is aggressively pursuing self-improvement to the point of denigrating others. As an INFP, people often let me down (they don't match up to my internal ideal of humanity). However, I get the feeling an ENFJ feels a stronger compulsion to show everyone just how "great" they are/can be if they witness this shortcoming, whereas I don't feel that urge (because I know how good I am/can be, and I am not obligated to do anything for these ungrateful plebeians! ).

    The difficulty is when the ENFJ's behaviour implies their own greatness when compared to the lacklustre nature of everyone else. If this aspect is curbed, or not present, then ENFJ's can be quite inspiring, since they're usually good at setting goals and eventually achieving them. The problem for ENFJs is that they seem to worry constantly about everything. Having so much nervous energy, they dispense it through physical action, which seems helpful to them (and can be helpful in reality) but can also make them seem like a "busybody". However, since I understand they are trying to seek perfection (as I am, just in a different way), I recognise this behaviour and try not to feel too bad if they slight me.

    Essentially, the arrogance the OP suggested is present in ENFJs seems to me to be a manifestation of their desire to display the perfection they wish to see in the world. However, this perfection seems based on order, planning, and getting all of the details right so as to make this internal vision manifest. If you are seen to be antagonistic to these goals, then perhaps the "ENFJ backlash" is perceived as arrogance.
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
    Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
    Of any world where promises were kept,
    Or one could weep because another wept.

  7. #37
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Some people are very much comfortable not being the best they can be and see no reason to try. These aren't bad or unambitious people, that's just not one of their life goals. It's strange really, when I try to talk about it and I get blank stares.
    the ENFJs i know have a very good idea of who they are and who they would like to be. and that's very admirable, but maybe it would help explain your surprise to point out that ENFJs don't seem to need/want to go through the same identity quest that many of us have to go through - or, at least, it manifests quite differently. so while i agree that some people just really don't care, other people are stuck at a place of not having chosen who they want to be. like, it's not always clear what improvement would be, or at least how it can be gone about. i think that almost everyone does try to improve themselves, but not everyone goes about it in the way that an ENFJ does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adasta View Post
    There is a modicum of truth here, but it's the implication that everyone else is a huge slacker which is irksome. [...] if someone else were to plan, it would not be good enough. An irritating circle if there ever were one!
    yeah. this is the way i feel about ENFJ "arrogance" too. one of my absolute favorite people is an ENFJ, but this is true about her. i admire her efforts to be the best she can be but there's the lingering implication that everyone else isn't as good as she is. it's just hard sometimes to get along with someone who thinks they know best most, if not all, the time.

    i think ENFJs are even more appealing/attractive when they let you see a hint of the insecurity/worry behind the perfection... brings you guys back down to just-above-human level

  8. #38
    Senior Member ExAstrisSpes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    341

    Default

    For me, I have this idea of who I want to be, what I want to be like. What the "ideal me" is like.

    I really try to live up to that ideal, and to be honest it's quite nebulous what that ideal is sometimes.

    It's not motivated out of "oh I need to be a role model for other human beings" or any sort of social motivation like that. It's more of, "I want to reach my personal potential of being human". I really love Star Trek because I feel what it's really about is a group of imperfect people aiming to improve and better themselves (at least TNG was).

    I can be really hard on myself when reality doesn't quite meet my ideal. I know it's an ideal, but I think my goals are somewhat reasonable and I'm really hard on myself when sometimes I'm way off.

  9. #39
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,022

    Default

    My ENFJ friend does this. She has an idealised version of who she is and what the world should look like. And she's really quick to point this out!

  10. #40
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    eNfj
    Enneagram
    2
    Posts
    660

    Default

    I actually struggle with the whole concept of ENFJ arrogance. I definitely DON'T think I am the best at everything and am usually fine with other people (OK, admittedly mostly other J's ) planning things. I love just being able to show up!

    However...as part of my ENFJ ideals, I think it is important for people to admit their flaws, relinquish control, be humble and understand that every person from the trash collector to the president has a unique and important purpose - we are all cogs in the machine that is humanity. The thing that I struggle with is people who ARE self-important and arrogant, but then I wonder if I am guilty of being arrogant about not being arrogant. I don't even know if that makes sense, but I drive myself nuts thinking about it
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
    I can't spell...get over it

    Slightly ENFJ, totally JoSunshine
    Extroverted (E) 52.5%........Introverted (I) 47.5%
    Intuitive (N) 65.63%..........Sensing (S) 34.38%
    Feeling (F) 55.56%............Thinking (T) 44.44%
    Judging (J) 51.43%............Perceiving (P) 48.57%

Similar Threads

  1. [ENFJ] ENFJ self esteem help
    By elephantcaviar in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-15-2012, 12:15 PM
  2. Self image of physical appearance
    By swordpath in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 106
    Last Post: 11-07-2008, 07:45 PM
  3. At what point does a fetus become a human being?
    By sriv in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 103
    Last Post: 09-28-2008, 06:44 PM
  4. Pregnancy and Self-Image
    By Buds of May in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 05-24-2008, 08:45 AM
  5. [NF] ENFJs and INFPs as good thinkers?
    By Electric in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-24-2008, 11:45 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO