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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    than get a therapist.
    My mother called two weeks ago, but they've yet to call back.

  2. #222
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    My mother called two weeks ago, but they've yet to call back.
    o ok good, at least something is being done.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so
    Likes Noll liked this post

  3. #223
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I've only known one, and she was still really sweet, but complex. There was a chasm between the ideal and real self. In communication she was especially kind and accepting, but had reached a point of believing that each person was sooo different that it helped justify some people's needs being dismissed. She was always searching into philosophical realms and even challenging herself with personal development on a deep level, but for some reason could not see the degree to which she would take and not give in the concrete realm. She required complex and specific dietary and personal needs that others met for her.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  4. #224
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I've only known one, and she was still really sweet, but complex. There was a chasm between the ideal and real self. In communication she was especially kind and accepting, but had reached a point of believing that each person was sooo different that it helped justify some people's needs being dismissed. She was always searching into philosophical realms and even challenging herself with personal development on a deep level, but for some reason could not see the degree to which she would take and not give in the concrete realm. She required complex and specific dietary and personal needs that others met for her.
    maybe she 'gave' intangible things to people that you could not recognize? why must a person give so much in a concrete realm---people can offer different things. i think Fe sometimes expects there to be a 50/50 clear split in concrete duties and whatnot, and that is somehow a signifier of health.

    i really feel for INFPs because this notion of MBTI health is so normalized and reductive erhghh idk. i think everyone has a process and people are so quick to label INFPs as 'unhealthy.' we operate in different spaces. i don't think it should be a problem if the person is open about what they are and what space they are occupying
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  5. #225
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulabelle View Post
    maybe she 'gave' intangible things to people that you could not recognize? why must a person give so much in a concrete realm---people can offer different things. i think Fe sometimes expects there to be a 50/50 clear split in concrete duties and whatnot, and that is somehow a signifier of health.

    i really feel for INFPs because this notion of MBTI health is so normalized and reductive erhghh idk. i think everyone has a process and people are so quick to label INFPs as 'unhealthy.' we operate in different spaces. i don't think it should be a problem if the person is open about what they are and what space they are occupying
    That's a good point, and yes, she did give intangible things. I'm actually referring to a really complex situation, but your point is important. INFPs are one of my personally favorite types and I do love and respect all of the ones I know, so I was mostly just trying to answer this question in the OP. I think the person I described is a good person. I would also describe myself as unhealthy at times, so I'm not coming from a position of superiority in this at all.

    The problem with all the stuff in the concrete realm is that it *has* to get done, so the more people who don't do it, leaves more stuff that someone has to do whether or not it's natural or healthy for them to be the one the workload falls upon. It would be great if everyone could just give to others what is natural and best for them to give, but sometimes that leaves the menial stuff undone. Some people do like to do more concrete work, but what happens if there is an environment where the omega of the pack has a chronic pain problem, has a heavy workload, is under tremendous stress, but most others only give intangibly?

    This isn't just Fe and Fi, because in the end we sometimes have to give what comes unnaturally if we love others enough. The person who cannot express love in words may need to go outside their comfort zone if they are with someone who is hurting and needs to hear it. The person who isn't good at cleaning up may need to do it if everyone else is sick, etc. I guess I've learned that being a rather extreme intuitive spending my life living with other extreme intuitives. It takes tremendous focus for me to remember groceries and do all that sort of stuff and I would absolutely love to be able to give intangibly through art and not worry about the menial stuff, but it's a problem that goes beyond personality if there is no food in the house, if there is dog poop on the floor, if dogs needs to be let out at 6:00am, etc. It's just like being a parent who needs to change the baby's diaper - that goes beyond whether we give intangibly or not. In the end the baseline needs of life have to be met by someone, and most of the time noone really *wants* to do it, so whoever is lowest in the pack is left with the assumption they will just do it.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.
    Likes lulabelle liked this post

  6. #226
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    That's a good point, and yes, she did give intangible things. I'm actually referring to a really complex situation, but your point is important. INFPs are one of my personally favorite types and I do love and respect all of the ones I know, so I was mostly just trying to answer this question in the OP. I think the person I described is a good person. I would also describe myself as unhealthy at times, so I'm not coming from a position of superiority in this at all.

    The problem with all the stuff in the concrete realm is that it *has* to get done, so the more people who don't do it, leaves more stuff that someone has to do whether or not it's natural or healthy for them to be the one the workload falls upon. It would be great if everyone could just give to others what is natural and best for them to give, but sometimes that leaves the menial stuff undone. Some people do like to do more concrete work, but what happens if there is an environment where the omega of the pack has a chronic pain problem, has a heavy workload, is under tremendous stress, but most others only give intangibly?

    This isn't just Fe and Fi, because in the end we sometimes have to give what comes unnaturally if we love others enough. The person who cannot express love in words may need to go outside their comfort zone if they are with someone who is hurting and needs to hear it. The person who isn't good at cleaning up may need to do it if everyone else is sick, etc. I guess I've learned that being a rather extreme intuitive spending my life living with other extreme intuitives. It takes tremendous focus for me to remember groceries and do all that sort of stuff and I would absolutely love to be able to give intangibly through art and not worry about the menial stuff, but it's a problem that goes beyond personality if there is no food in the house, if there is dog poop on the floor, if dogs needs to be let out at 6:00am, etc. It's just like being a parent who needs to change the baby's diaper - that goes beyond whether we give intangibly or not. In the end the baseline needs of life have to be met by someone, and most of the time noone really *wants* to do it, so whoever is lowest in the pack is left with the assumption they will just do it.
    yeah, i guess i just feel that Fe tends to Show more when it comes to tangible love... people mainly tend to notice Fi when it's out of control, you know?

    I'm not just talking about 'intangible' art here, i'm talking about presence and feeling deeply for someone... being next to someone who will allow you to experience in whatever way you want.

    i understand this part... i guess the people in the relationship need to decide/express their contributions in some way. and yeah, not trying to defend the sloppiness. it's just, sigh. the things that are most natural to the INFP seem most conducive to a lack of Health! i understand though that there must be compromise in certain areas in certain relationships. sometimes i get frustrated when people seem to define health in sort of a rigid way--certain types seem to fit into it more neatly than others! it's complicated business but people need to define their own spaces
    Likes labyrinthine liked this post

  7. #227
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulabelle View Post
    yeah, i guess i just feel that Fe tends to Show more when it comes to tangible love... people mainly tend to notice Fi when it's out of control, you know?
    I think I know what you mean, but I will say that it can feel the same way between INFJ and ISFJ. I find myself trying to be an ISFJ in relationships because they are ideal as caretakers in many ways since they can remember concrete details and combine that with Fe. My tendency to forget the details of a loved one's needs can make this INFJ seem not all that great at "Fe". I think that the Ni-Fe combo changes the nature of Fe into something that doesn't fit most stereotypes because it individualizes and abstracts the nature of Fe into something very personal and internal.

    Quote Originally Posted by lulabelle View Post
    I'm not just talking about 'intangible' art here, i'm talking about presence and feeling deeply for someone... being next to someone who will allow you to experience in whatever way you want.
    I do realize that, but that was the primary thought that came to my mind because that is what would be easiest for me to do rather than all the concrete cleanup help. My mother and sister are Fi-doms and I can feel the depth of their ability to see and love others uniquely. My mother was a superb kindergarten teacher all her life because she saw and loved each child as a unique person with unique needs to learn. That willingness to see someone for who they are and accept them quietly can be the most meaningful aspect of being loved.

    Quote Originally Posted by lulabelle View Post
    i understand this part... i guess the people in the relationship need to decide/express their contributions in some way. and yeah, not trying to defend the sloppiness. it's just, sigh. the things that are most natural to the INFP seem most conducive to a lack of Health! i understand though that there must be compromise in certain areas in certain relationships. sometimes i get frustrated when people seem to define health in sort of a rigid way--certain types seem to fit into it more neatly than others! it's complicated business but people need to define their own spaces
    I can see why the scenario I presented sounded like the classic complaints, but I left out the hard-core stuff that hurt because it was too personal. All iNtuitives need to be careful about not having an idealized self that doesn't map to reality. It can be too easy for any of the N types to fix it all with words and imagination. That's actually why my relationship ended so horrifically because we were both in a dreamworld and neglected all the damage being done in the concrete realm.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    My mother called two weeks ago, but they've yet to call back.
    Must say that I'm not sure you'll want a therapist, but more a psychologist. Therapists are more expensive and mainly deal in drugs. Psychologists use theraputic technic to solve problems, and if drugs are needed, they contact a therapist.

  9. #229
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Most INFPs are probably unhealthy by other people's standards (especially 4w5s); most people don't relate to that extreme sensitivity and will dismiss it as unhealthiness. It's a great battle for many INFPs to overcome what they've been told about themselves their whole lives: too sensitive, too shy, too spacey, too self-pitying, too strange, too lazy etc etc. I can definitely see why so many INFP guys are annoying to others... it's very difficult to be the antithesis of what a 'real man' is supposed to be in our society + clearly they have some baggage as a result.

  10. #230
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    I seem to, without trying, bring out the gremlin out of INFPs. Like my TJ'ness is adding water on that cute little furry teddy bear that turns into a gremlin.


    I didn't understand it, until I read this.

    One real problem area for the INFP is their intensive dislike of conflict and criticism. The INFP is quick to find a personal angle in any critical comment, whether or not anything personal was intended. They will tend to take any sort of criticism as a personal attack on their character, and will usually become irrational and emotional in such situations. This can be a real problem for INFPs who are involved with persons who have Thinking and Judging preferences. "TJ"s relate to others with a objective, decisive attitude that frequently shows an opinion on the topic of conversation. If the opinion is negative, the TJ's attitude may be threatening to the INFP, who will tend to respond emotionally to the negativity and be vaguely but emphatically convinced that the negativity is somehow the INFP's fault.

    For INFPs with extremely dominant Feeling preferences who have not developed their Intuitive sides sufficiently to gather good data for their decision making processes, their dislike of conflict and criticism can foretell doom and gloom for intimate relationships. These INFPs will react with extreme emotional distress to conflict situations, and will not know what to do about it. Since they will have no basis for determining what action to take, they will do whatever they can to get rid of the conflict - which frequently means lashing out irrationally at others, or using guilt manipulation to get their mates to give them the positive support that they crave. This kind of behavior does not bode well for healthy, long-term relationships. Individuals who recognize this tendency in themselves should work on their ability to take criticism objectively rather than personally. They should also try to remember that conflict situations are not always their fault, and they're definitely not the end of the world. Conflict is a fact of life, and facing it and addressing it immediately avoids having to deal with it in the future, after it has become a much larger problem.

    INFP Relationships
    As I've read through this thread. I've seen some mentioning they go to sleep and hide from the real world. I can see how most go for solitude and would never really lash out. Until I'm sure you've got yourself entangled with a TJ. The INFP in my life, gets so worked up on any discussion that turns into an argument. Literally shivering/trembling voice, jumping up and down, talking over me, talking extremely fast and loud, basically yelling. Fighting till the death blindly, for the supposed "injustice" that happened against the perceived "victims" in the argument.

    The constant care test is there as well. Also somehow, money = care ? In my point of view, business is business.

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