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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    infjs talk about their lives in emotional language, and they like to communicate about what is most important to them, what they struggle with, etc, but they have difficulty with their own emotional awareness. their skills are much better suited towards recognizing/reconstructing the inner states of others. all those goddamned mirror neurons.

    i have enormous difficulty making decisions, and in some contexts, this fucks up my communication skills in those serious relationship talks, moments, etc. i just don't know what to say, bc i don't have an accurate reading on the situation. i am floating over my average self, and i sway so far depending on a variety of somewhat relevant but not the truth factors, and it's difficult for me to commit to a specific anything in the moment. instead it always feels like i'm working on it.

    i do know that enfps catalyze my emotions better than any other type. i just feel more emotionally free with them than other types, i feel like they recognize exactly where i am on an emotional level, they can figure it out better than me, and with 7w6s, they are usually very gentle and supportive and imaginative and funny. the connection is very natural. i think, in my experience, it might take a little more time for female enfp-male infj than the opposite, as the timidity can still be pretty high with unsocial infjs and anxious 7w6 enfps. enfp females generally have no issues with physical distance, until they become aware of it, or there's a change in tenor. then it can become quite self-conscious. that probably depends, as much as anything, on instinctual subtype as well. i mainly know so/sx for 7w6, the only sx/so types i've met are 7w8.
    well put "the state i am in". i am a female 7w6 enfp & my boyfriend is an infj - i think he's a 9. i have directly noticed / observed / reflected on etc. everything you mentioned above with him & what you wrote is SPOT ON!!! excellently accurate & true . . . and like you mentioned also, we get those moments when he can be distant but yet i can still tell that he is observing me & the ways i will react to him & i can't figure out how to respond from him & then i start getting anxious & paranoid because i don't know what's wrong or what he's thinking & then he says that he doesn't even know & then i start getting mean because i feel rejected & scared & my fight or flight response / fear of rejection makes me react like hurt him before he hurts me & i spew out anxiety laden mean verbal diahherea to fill the cold silence & distance. ENFPs need to just learn to WAIT IT OUT i think, it's that simple. also i get paranoid that he probably secretly wants an ENTP girl now that dumb me got him into MBTI . . . cuz all you infjs seem to adore them across the board & i think enfps seem like a dime a dozen to infjs . . . enfps are a dime a dozen, poppin up everywhere & hittin on infjs . . . like there's plenty to go around but meanwhile the enTp is the true golden prize that they're wating for . . . OK i went off on a tangent peace & love

  2. #22
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    infjs talk about their lives in emotional language, and they like to communicate about what is most important to them, what they struggle with, etc,
    I experience this.

    but they have difficulty with their own emotional awareness. their skills are much better suited towards recognizing/reconstructing the inner states of others. all those goddamned mirror neurons.
    This sounds like a sweeping generalization, and is not accurate for me. I am addressing it because I think it would be better if you kept your responses in terms of "my" experience rather than "infj" experience. Perhaps it's the difference between male/female infj or perhaps it's just that we all have different experiences that have made us who we are, or maybe it has something to do with how much we use our undifferentiated functions (Fi)........
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  3. #23
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revolve View Post
    well put "the state i am in". i am a female 7w6 enfp & my boyfriend is an infj - i think he's a 9. i have directly noticed / observed / reflected on etc. everything you mentioned above with him & what you wrote is SPOT ON!!! excellently accurate & true . . . and like you mentioned also, we get those moments when he can be distant but yet i can still tell that he is observing me & the ways i will react to him & i can't figure out how to respond from him & then i start getting anxious & paranoid because i don't know what's wrong or what he's thinking & then he says that he doesn't even know & then i start getting mean because i feel rejected & scared & my fight or flight response / fear of rejection makes me react like hurt him before he hurts me & i spew out anxiety laden mean verbal diahherea to fill the cold silence & distance. ENFPs need to just learn to WAIT IT OUT i think, it's that simple. also i get paranoid that he probably secretly wants an ENTP girl now that dumb me got him into MBTI . . . cuz all you infjs seem to adore them across the board & i think enfps seem like a dime a dozen to infjs . . . enfps are a dime a dozen, poppin up everywhere & hittin on infjs . . . like there's plenty to go around but meanwhile the enTp is the true golden prize that they're wating for . . . OK i went off on a tangent peace & love
    enfps are the furthest thing from dime-a-dozen to infjs. most infj males, throughout the course of their lives, are captivated by enfp females. infj males seem more off the radar for enfp females than vice versa.

    the entps are a bit better at this game you mention above. they cut thru the bullshit, and they more naturally understand the rationale of the infj, why he is in-hiding, etc. more than that, they are usually very secure with themselves, they play the game with a logical approach that focuses on best case scenario rather than relating to the whole of it at all times. this detachment is useful, bc it helps stay focused on a greater truth.

    this greater truth is that while the infj may, in the moment, be observing you cooly, detached, somewhat judgmentally, this is but a small fraction of his own Ni landscape of the relationship (and that most of it is full of hope and wonder). he is looking for problems bc his emotional response, the suites of potential behavior and the meaning of that behavior, the understanding that fits with it, detects serious threat. i don't know how to explain this to people, but my interpretations are just a little more wild, a little less grounded than others at times, especially when i lose control of my emotional responses. when i don't integrate them into a larger picture, when i don't error-check them, when i have extremely poor emotional awareness, when they become too mob-mentality. which has to do with threat-level, overall health, balance, rest, etc.

    we need help breaking thru our filtrations to reach something real. and to let go and be free and capable of loving. this is a general problem, and it's stacked differently amongst different incarnations of infj (e4, e5, e9, sx/so/sp varietals). but it's a problem of opening up unto the other, the world, you, and so on. enfps are really good at making us believe in this in a way that we don't have happen for us very often, but, as a result of this total lack of practice, we're terribly stunted and we have a lot of unpleasant growing pains.

    as an enfp, some of your growing pains correlate with ours, and at times there needs to be a mutual growth to be able to use a little Ti/Te to ground the relationship in something other than whole relating all F-like (which can be a lot to ask of two people). yet we both know that kind of relating matters to us very much, which is what much of the attraction is based on (along with Ni-Ne being neverending caterwauling merry-go-round experience that feels like childhood ought to have felt like).

    also, the whole, but is another type better for this person game is really fucking unhealthy. i do it too, which is dangerous and frustrating. man, if only i were an enxp, i would be able to reach her better. i would see positive outcomes more consistently. and so on and so forth. the sense of TRUTH about typology relations, well, they're helpful, but you can't know the answer, you can try to find the answer, keep working on the problem, but knowing the words is different than knowing what is true for you. you aren't ready to live it until it is true for you, and that true is the answer to a unique constellation of questions, however similarly they are processed to others of your same type.

  4. #24
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    This sounds like a sweeping generalization, and is not accurate for me. I am addressing it because I think it would be better if you kept your responses in terms of "my" experience rather than "infj" experience. Perhaps it's the difference between male/female infj or perhaps it's just that we all have different experiences that have made us who we are, or maybe it has something to do with how much we use our undifferentiated functions (Fi)........
    i agree that my perceptions do not match up with your Fi. i would speculate that maybe your advice to me shows that your Fi isn't so undifferentiated after all.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    enfps are the furthest thing from dime-a-dozen to infjs. most infj males, throughout the course of their lives, are captivated by enfp females. infj males seem more off the radar for enfp females than vice versa.

    the entps are a bit better at this game you mention above. they cut thru the bullshit, and they more naturally understand the rationale of the infj, why he is in-hiding, etc. more than that, they are usually very secure with themselves, they play the game with a logical approach that focuses on best case scenario rather than relating to the whole of it at all times. this detachment is useful, bc it helps stay focused on a greater truth.

    this greater truth is that while the infj may, in the moment, be observing you cooly, detached, somewhat judgmentally, this is but a small fraction of his own Ni landscape of the relationship (and that most of it is full of hope and wonder). he is looking for problems bc his emotional response, the suites of potential behavior and the meaning of that behavior, the understanding that fits with it, detects serious threat. i don't know how to explain this to people, but my interpretations are just a little more wild, a little less grounded than others at times, especially when i lose control of my emotional responses. when i don't integrate them into a larger picture, when i don't error-check them, when i have extremely poor emotional awareness, when they become too mob-mentality. which has to do with threat-level, overall health, balance, rest, etc.

    we need help breaking thru our filtrations to reach something real. and to let go and be free and capable of loving. this is a general problem, and it's stacked differently amongst different incarnations of infj (e4, e5, e9, sx/so/sp varietals). but it's a problem of opening up unto the other, the world, you, and so on. enfps are really good at making us believe in this in a way that we don't have happen for us very often, but, as a result of this total lack of practice, we're terribly stunted and we have a lot of unpleasant growing pains.

    as an enfp, some of your growing pains correlate with ours, and at times there needs to be a mutual growth to be able to use a little Ti/Te to ground the relationship in something other than whole relating all F-like (which can be a lot to ask of two people). yet we both know that kind of relating matters to us very much, which is what much of the attraction is based on (along with Ni-Ne being neverending caterwauling merry-go-round experience that feels like childhood ought to have felt like).

    also, the whole, but is another type better for this person game is really fucking unhealthy. i do it too, which is dangerous and frustrating. man, if only i were an enxp, i would be able to reach her better. i would see positive outcomes more consistently. and so on and so forth. the sense of TRUTH about typology relations, well, they're helpful, but you can't know the answer, you can try to find the answer, keep working on the problem, but knowing the words is different than knowing what is true for you. you aren't ready to live it until it is true for you, and that true is the answer to a unique constellation of questions, however similarly they are processed to others of your same type.
    i admire you. you are awesome. thank you.

  6. #26
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i agree that my perceptions do not match up with your Fi. i would speculate that maybe your advice to me shows that your Fi isn't so undifferentiated after all.

    Well, I don't really care about my Fi and its differentiation.

    I would please ask you to speak less in generalities as it regards INFJs.......it smacks of condescension at the most and inaccuracy at the least.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  7. #27
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Well, I don't really care about my Fi and its differentiation.

    I would please ask you to speak less in generalities as it regards INFJs.......it smacks of condescension at the most and inaccuracy at the least.
    your values are out of touch with what i see. you don't have to identify with my description of infjs. i don't identify you in that description either.

    you don't like my posts, so don't read them. it's a simple solution. i have no interest in pure testimonial.

  8. #28
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    your values are out of touch with what i see. you don't have to identify with my description of infjs. i don't identify you in that description either.

    you don't like my posts, so don't read them. it's a simple solution. i have no interest in pure testimonial.

    It's just taken me while to see it, but it's always been there, and while I think you have great insights, it's what I haven't liked about them. Your posts speak in sweeping generalizations of INFJs.....go back and look at your posts in just this thread.

    I think it's absolutely appropriate and expected that on this forum, members use 'I' terms to describe their experiences, not 'we' terms, otherwise you sound like you think you are the quintessential INFJ! Surely you must admit this.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  9. #29
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    It's just taken me while to see it, but it's always been there, and while I think you have great insights, it's what I haven't liked about them. Your posts speak in sweeping generalizations of INFJs.....go back and look at your posts in just this thread.

    I think it's absolutely appropriate and expected that on this forum, members use 'I' terms to describe their experiences, not 'we' terms, otherwise you sound like you think you are the quintessential INFJ! Surely you must admit this.
    what you're speaking of is Ti. this is "absolutely appropriate" with Ti users. Ti presumes to know an objective truth, Fi presumes to know a subjective truth. Ti discusses truth outside of itself. Ti would attack my consistency, precision, and logic, but the method would be fine.

    i am NOT reading all of infj into myself, tho i am reading myself into my concept of infj. when i speak, my concept comes first. sometimes the relationship is messier than i would like. but my understandings aim to transcend myself. bc i don't think my own story is the truest form of understanding that i can generate. your claim is backwards. i am always looking to understand the differences between myself and other infjs. but that's true for typology as a whole. i am interested in many, many relationships, not just those pertaining to my own immediate experience (bc i do not privilege that, i privilege my own knowledge that i work very rigorously to perfect).

    i don't think the "i" focus is foundational or necessary. people are free to criticize, or disagree. you disagree with my statements. that's fine with me, we have obvious foundational conflict in how we are invested in typology.

    i get frustrated with the term "sweeping generalization" bc to me, it's a meaningless critique. all of language is a sweeping generalization. making propositions, claims, etc, are all sweeping generalizations unless you say something so small and particular that it has no relevance, universality, and meaning for anything else. these are not lazy generalizations, yet there's always more left unaccounted for. with that said, this "sweeping generalizations" statement is often just a knee-jerk rejection based on different rationale processes. it doesn't feel like it's properly testing anything, just putting it in the "dislike" column.

  10. #30
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    enfps are the furthest thing from dime-a-dozen to infjs. most infj males, throughout the course of their lives, are captivated by enfp females. infj males seem more off the radar for enfp females than vice versa.

    the entps are a bit better at this game you mention above. they cut thru the bullshit, and they more naturally understand the rationale of the infj, why he is in-hiding, etc. more than that, they are usually very secure with themselves, they play the game with a logical approach that focuses on best case scenario rather than relating to the whole of it at all times. this detachment is useful, bc it helps stay focused on a greater truth.

    this greater truth is that while the infj may, in the moment, be observing you cooly, detached, somewhat judgmentally, this is but a small fraction of his own Ni landscape of the relationship (and that most of it is full of hope and wonder). he is looking for problems bc his emotional response, the suites of potential behavior and the meaning of that behavior, the understanding that fits with it, detects serious threat. i don't know how to explain this to people, but my interpretations are just a little more wild, a little less grounded than others at times, especially when i lose control of my emotional responses. when i don't integrate them into a larger picture, when i don't error-check them, when i have extremely poor emotional awareness, when they become too mob-mentality. which has to do with threat-level, overall health, balance, rest, etc.

    we need help breaking thru our filtrations to reach something real. and to let go and be free and capable of loving. this is a general problem, and it's stacked differently amongst different incarnations of infj (e4, e5, e9, sx/so/sp varietals). but it's a problem of opening up unto the other, the world, you, and so on. enfps are really good at making us believe in this in a way that we don't have happen for us very often, but, as a result of this total lack of practice, we're terribly stunted and we have a lot of unpleasant growing pains.

    as an enfp, some of your growing pains correlate with ours, and at times there needs to be a mutual growth to be able to use a little Ti/Te to ground the relationship in something other than whole relating all F-like (which can be a lot to ask of two people). yet we both know that kind of relating matters to us very much, which is what much of the attraction is based on (along with Ni-Ne being neverending caterwauling merry-go-round experience that feels like childhood ought to have felt like).

    .
    You just lose such validity for me when you stereotype types so rampantly like this. I agree, it is fine to be opinionated, and others can challenge us in that; but making arguements or conclusions from the perspective of how all infjs do things or think about things; or entps, or enfps, or whomever, is ridiculous.

    I guess I missed the memo that said the INFJ HIGH COUNCIL made you our spokesperson. Could someone please forward that on to me?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


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