User Tag List

First 2345 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 50

  1. #31
    Senior Member Silly_Siren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Beethoven did not take his hat off for the prince.
    Goethe did.

    I suggest you settle with Goethe.
    I know! And Goethe was as arrogant as they come! both cool dudes regardless.

    Beethoven, had no Fe like was said before so he's definitely not INFJ. He could be ISFP, it is the composer type. I could buy that, but he really seems more like an INTJ.
    =universal solution

  2. #32
    Senior Member SuperFob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    264

    Default

    Beethoven, had no Fe
    What makes you think that?

  3. #33
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,859

    Default

    I think Beethoven defies type...

    I know he had a reputation for being a curmudgeon, but I think he was a feeler and a thinker, almost equally. His harmonies are very intense and precise, but his music is not 'heady' or super-ration, like Bach can be (strict rules of counterpoint); to me it's passionate above all, but with a very precise architecture. For example, The Groe Fuge is very harmonically complex, yet it's also very passionate and full of fire.

    IMO, like all great people, Beethoven is not easy to type because of his evolution. And he's a hero of mine...

  4. #34
    Senior Member Silly_Siren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperFob View Post
    What makes you think that?
    Well I suppose I don't know the guy that well, but he did not have a reputation for being one to "grease the wheels of social interaction".
    =universal solution

  5. #35
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperFob View Post
    Beethoven's music was much more F than T, though. It was more about creating beauty and emotionally stimulating tunes as opposed to the more intellectualized music of Bach.
    There are two distinct cultural settings for Beethoven and Bach which account for some differences. Also MBTI designations are limited in addressing certain issues especially those that are steeped in integration. Artistic expression is the culmination of synthesis on various levels. Much MBTI discussions are about simplification, categorization, and isolating out features. In the end I like talking about Beethoven as a person and composer more than relating him to a particular type. I will say his intelligence and ability to create complex musical systems might be paralleled, but not clearly surpassed. My main point is to not overlook the structural integrity of his work because of its emotional and dramatic appeal. The two concepts are intertwined and cannot be separated. I would say the same for Bach.

    After studying with Haydn and writing his first symphony, Beethoven went back through a thorough study of counterpoint. He had arrived as a composer, but his technical prowess did not match his inner vision. He was rigorous with himself as a composer and reworked passages relentlessly.

    There is also an anecdote about an aristocratic woman begging him at point of tears to play for her after dinner. He wouldn't do it in response to such a display.His whole life was faced with obstacles of one sort or another. His relationship with the world was somewhat adversarial and when the vulnerability of his deafness started to become apparent, he left for the country. One famous quote of his is, "There will be a thousand princes, but one Beethoven" - which was true. The critics of his ninth symphony were brutal, unfair, and their response proved unfounded in years to come.

    Beethoven's music is structurally more complex than Bach or Mozart. He was the first to extend the symphonic form in length and integrated the musical patterns between movements not just within a single movement. He always starts with a simple, direct theme that is expanded upon to a point of complexity not seen before his time. His process can be compared to starting with a seed and growing into an impressive oak tree. The relationships between the pitches can be described as fractal patterns. For an example, if the main theme emphasizes C D and G in the melody, then the primary harmonic centers for the piece might move from the key of C major, modulating to D (or d minor), and then to G. What occurs on the small scale also occurs on the large-scale. This is also true of Mozart and to a lesser degree Bach. It is mostly associated with tonality and sonata-forms, but is still more present in Beethoven than Schubert.

    Contemporaries that had more lyrical warmth in their expression include Schubert, Schumann, and Mendelssohn. Schubert's melodic warmth defies analysis to a large degree. It is that subjective, emotional realm. When Schubert develops patterns he relies more on repetition than development when compared to Beethoven. Most every note in Beethoven can be analyzed and explained as part of the larger structure. This is also true for Mozart and Bach. On a personal level they both move me equally, but that is not entirely relevant when analyzing their music. Romanticism is a cultural movement, so one has to evaluate an individual within that context. Language use of the time was quite different from now and might leave all people of the time as Feelers. The Baroque was much less individualistic in its expression of emotion, and so any composer from the 19th century is going to appear more emotionally expressive than in the 17th century based on our own cultural values. There are personal deviations in preferences and responses, but it generally holds true.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  6. #36
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,584

    Default

    Here is one more short analogy that can summarize the relationship between structure and complexity and the emotional world of Beethoven's expression.

    Beethoven as a musical architect built structures which were larger, more complex, and filled with more inter-relationships than those who came before him. It is because of the certainty of these structures that they can hold greater dramatic expression than those before him. His music is like watching a storm at sea and later realizing that it was only possible to experience it because the ship you were standing on was structurally sound.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  7. #37
    Senior Member something boring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    nnja
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    EII
    Posts
    279

    Default

    I could really see him as an INFJ...
    "Don�t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive." - Howard Thurman


    [SIGPIC]http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/evillinclinations/fortune45.gif[/SIGPIC]

    ...and yes, I'm still on about that...






  8. #38
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    3,278

    Default

    He was an ISFP..
    He had zero Fe.. he was rude and obnoxious.
    He was an idiot savant.

    He was not an INFJ.

  9. #39
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudonym_Alpha View Post
    I was recently reading that some people seem to think that Ludwig Van Beethoven was an INFJ. Which I find rather interesting.

    Beethoven's Personality and Music: Introverted Romantic

    As I am a pianist and enjoy playing the piano perfusely(I think I spelt that correctly..), I wanted to research it.

    Any other facts anyone else can think of in relation to this topic, would be greatly appreciated
    INTP.

  10. #40
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    INTP.
    definitely Ni. his music is far too singular. feels very bombastically totalitarianly j. i would guess intj.

Similar Threads

  1. [INFJ] You know you're an INFJ when...
    By Dali in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 2356
    Last Post: 03-07-2017, 02:37 AM
  2. [INFJ] Help Me! I'n an INFJ!
    By Motor Jax in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-09-2009, 07:32 AM
  3. [INFJ] What Attracts an INFJ man?
    By grendiecat in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 86
    Last Post: 03-06-2009, 07:29 PM
  4. [INFJ] Bebe Le Strange : How to Spot an INFJ
    By Thursday in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 111
    Last Post: 11-22-2008, 02:06 PM
  5. [INFJ] Public portrait of an INFJ
    By Griffi97 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-23-2008, 09:43 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO