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  1. #1
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Default Rosetta1: Fi vs Tertiary Fe

    Here is the first Fi vs Fe thread. I would like to present the scenario and then have the Fi users and Fe users not attack one another.

    Rather I would like both to discuss what they meant to convey and those on the perceiving end to discuss what they perceived on their end. Each situation will have both sides. Think of Fi/Fe as two languages where we just need to prepare a set of tools to translate. These situations are embarrassing as I dont mean to do this stuff, but I do and I am trying to self calibrate so I will sacrifice myself for the topic.

    Please add your interpretations of how you would perceive each situation as an:

    1) Fi user receiving these signals
    2) Fe user receiving these signals
    3) Fi user sending these signals


    Please add your scenarios that illustrate this same Fi vs Tert Fe theme so we can each comment on what we see from our different perspectives.

    Scenario 1: I very much liked an ENTP boy. The ENTP was very flirty, friendly, sweet, touchy, affectionate. He was very into me in a sexual way. He acted like we had a very intense emotional bond and an intense connection when he saw me. He looked like he loved me. However when not around he would not call or email except very sporadically.

    I'll provide an answer for this one:
    Fi saw love-unicorn style
    Tertiary Fe honestly cares but in a short term emo way, not an in depth long term connectivity. Fe was like WTF when I hit it with intense Fi emo rays. He was very confused and wanted a hook up where I thought he really had emo feelings for me.


    Scenario 2:
    A tert Fe user on this site started joking with me and playing and being very flirty and fun. I saw Fi and responded and wrote a crazy, silly poem with lots of Fi. The person quickly withdrew.

    Fi Answer: Fi saw emo intimacy and assumed Fi connectivity.

    Fe response:They were playing with Fe as a social interactive tool to have fun. My Fi response was too intense, too emo, too fast and ended up likely intruding onto their personal space and they quickly withdrew.


    Scenario 3:
    Again almost exact of scenario 2, but on a dating site rather than here. I have also done this in real life several times.

    We can cheat a bit as I have Two threads I started from both directions of this issue trying to understand what was happening:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...nectivity.html

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...oundaries.html

  2. #2
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    do you guys get the point of this? If of no value I shall retire now as compiling this crap is a pain in the ass.

  3. #3
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Most infamous scenario for me:

    While having a debate with an ENTP you get to a point where they want to convince you with logic about something that you feel strongly about. You then feel oppressed and forced, not to mention trapped in their perceived webs of so-called logic, paranoia and judgements/demands for surrender to them being right. You then lash out, telling them to back off, respect your space and your freedom to think this way. Repeat cycle till infinity.

    Fi-reaction: why are you judging the way i feel about something that is important to me and insisting that I back it up with logic? And when I do try to back it up with logic, why do you insist on misunderstanding what I say, twisting my words, and intuiting thoughts I supposedly according to you had but aren't willing to share for some obscure reason? And what's with the judgement and conclusion that I am a bad person for being the way I am? This feels like mental rape, btw, especially when the ENTP does not take the hint to back off and leave me alone when I'm no longer able to cope and as such drives me to hysteria instead.

    Fe-reaction/intent: (from what I've been told) I'm merely interested as to why you would say such a thing when my logic seems to not support that. Did i miss something? Are you seeing something I didn't? And what is that then? I ask guided questions (misunderstood as judgement by Fi) to get to that information quickly and fill in the gaps. And when you tell me something that doesn't make sense to me, I'll quickly assess it so I can gain better insight into what it was you meant. Which is where I start intuiting your 'logic' behind things. I never did judge you. Mental rape, really???


    Scenario 2:

    Same thing. Argument, this time about feelings. ENTP tells you something about their past. You ask for a clarification as to how it made them feel, so you can relate more to them, get a feel for what they're communicating. They wonder what you're talking about, as it's just facts that they're relating. You press on, since something personal like that has to have some meaning to them and there must be some reason why they tell you this now. Or, you just are trying to ask more questions as you cannot really feel where they are coming from. They seem to get aggrevated and defensive. You ask em why they are aggrevated or defensive. Which is followed by a flat out denial of those emotions. You then turn to intuition to figure out why it could be that they are denying those emotions as you clearly saw them. Often the result is a lashing out of the ENTP and a recoiling of the ENFP, licking their wounds. Time usually tells whether or not the ENFP was right about the denial or not, ime.

    Fi-reaction: Why would he open up to me and then suddenly block me emotionally? And the feelings he's projecting aren't matching up with what he's told me..what's up with that? Lemme ask...mmm no, he seems to insist I'm wrong. Perhaps he's scared of telling me? Maybe there's something I can do to reassure him/her? I *know* there must be more to this story, but he may not see it himself? Maybe I can help...Wow, sorry for offering!


    Fe-reaction (again, from what I've been told and interpreted) When I say that I have no feelings towards this, I mean it. I'm not lying, nor am i hiding stuff. I just get aggrevated with you constantly verifying this! If you cannot accept my word on the fact that there's nothing there, then f** off. Stop projecting your own feelings on me! I dunno why you are focussing on this part of that story anyways. This feels like emotional rape to me, as I don't like having people dig for my feelings. That's private.


    Basically...we're the same, but in reverse. Ironically, we should be able to relate to each other just fine, because of this. Afterall, we know what it's like when we're the one in the vulnerable position. Yet somehow we don't seem to be able to undo this misunderstanding
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  4. #4
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Get? Perhaps... Why don't I try answering and you tell me whether it's what you were looking for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    Scenario 1: [I]I very much liked an ENTP boy. The ENTP was very flirty, friendly, sweet, touchy, affectionate. He was very into me in a sexual way. He acted like we had a very intense emotional bond and an intense connection when he saw me. He looked like he loved me. However when not around he would not call or email except very sporadically.
    My first impulse was to dissect your statements (which is Ti? I'll filter it). When you say ENTP was flirty, friendly... my impression is to question whether what you've said was reality or an act. Fe doesn't trust the outer signs too much because it in itself does a lot of mirroring. Your last statement about inconsistency matches the first impression. So Fe say this is not truly love, just affection.

    Scenario 2:
    [I]A tert Fe user on this site started joking with me and playing and being very flirty and fun. I saw Fi and responded and wrote a crazy, silly poem with lots of Fi. The person quickly withdrew.
    I'm assuming you mean ENTP for tertiary Fe users? Playful joking is merely Ne's way of having fun. An Fe spur of the moment burst of emotion thing is very common. What you saw as Fi wasn't Fi. Wasn't meant to be taken seriously at all. So when you throw in lots of emotion... it was overload. Hence withdrawal.

    Scenario 3:
    Again almost exact of scenario 2, but on a dating site rather than here. I have also done this in real life several times.

    We can cheat a bit as I have Two threads I started from both directions of this issue trying to understand what was happening:
    *confused* What's the difference between 2 & 3 in the threads?

    Fe is not all or none, although ENTPs with tertiary Fe might at time feel it's all or none. If you're dealing with a relationship, for me playfulness is like testing the water. Gradually ramping up intensity is probably easier to handle than a full-on petal to the metal approach. A sudden withdrawal just means I've decided this isn't going to work out and get out to save both of us time. I guess you can say Fe does a lot of assumption testing. The Ni influenced Fe anyhow.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    No, sorry, these were my examples, but up in the "wary of Fe thread" the idea was to take other examples where Fi and Fe don't communicate effectively and look at it from both sides to determine why the miscommunication occurs.

    Not sure if this is effective though.

  6. #6
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Wow, from Amargith's examples (and I would be the Fe user in this scenario), I can really see that I don't really naturally "get" Fi at all. I mean, when you explain it, I see the intent, and it makes sense, but it would just never occur to me to think that way. And yeah, I would get really irritated, really quickly at being probed about my emotions.
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  7. #7
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Wow, from Amargith's examples (and I would be the Fe user in this scenario), I can really see that I don't really naturally "get" Fi at all. I mean, when you explain it, I see the intent, and it makes sense, but it would just never occur to me to think that way. And yeah, I would get really irritated, really quickly at being probed about my emotions.
    Hehe, yeah it can get pretty intrusive, I admit. The thing is, we aint aware of it..for us this is something that we do naturally and constantly on superficial level, though when given a chance we can go a lot deeper. I (think I) get how it feels, as I have the same with you guys when you go passionately into a debate. And I'd imagine it feeling great for you guys, as it is your element. The same is true for us. I relish the idea of digging into someone's psyche, getting to know them, going 'spelonking' with them. And some people will even ask me to do this, knowing what it entails. I love that. I try to avoid doing it without permission as I know many don't feel comfortable with it, but sometimes I just don't notice that I'm doing it
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  8. #8
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    No, sorry, these were my examples, but up in the "wary of Fe thread" the idea was to take other examples where Fi and Fe don't communicate effectively and look at it from both sides to determine why the miscommunication occurs.

    Not sure if this is effective though.
    In that case I'll have to spend some time thinking about it. Real life example doesn't come readily to me lol.
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  9. #9
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post

    Scenario 1: I very much liked an ENTP boy. The ENTP was very flirty, friendly, sweet, touchy, affectionate. He was very into me in a sexual way. He acted like we had a very intense emotional bond and an intense connection when he saw me. He looked like he loved me. However when not around he would not call or email except very sporadically.
    I wouldnt think about it that way. What comes into play with tert-Fe is Introverted Thinking aswell. I couldnt develop for example emotions for a girl, who isnt at my level when it comes to thinking matters.

    Meaning, if I had a wife, who stays at home allday caring for the kids and only waiting for me to call her, I would think that she can grow dependant on me, lacking her own personal evolution, like forgetting her own dreams of what to accomplish in life.

    In connection with Introverted Thinking then, it is that you trust your wife and know where your home is. But you go out in this world and deal with matters besides from thinking about her all the time, to make money and fullfill your dreams.

    But the foundation on which that rests and if all the world would brake together around you, would still be your love. And she will be there often in sporadic moments on a day, when you think of her, got reminded of her or see her in things.

    If you see her again then, you are doubly happy to have her.

    ------------------

    I cant really connect only Fi or only Fe with love matters. They play a part in a gigantic web that love is made of, but on their own they dont say much.

    What they say for me is: Fe is introspection, while Fi is intraspection. And they often mix with the perceiving function, making for example ENFPs looking very extrovert in their Ethics
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  10. #10
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Okay, these are some really basic examples, slightly exaggerated . It some way or another, I have had small clashes with Fe along these lines.

    -------------

    Fe: How have you been?
    Fi: Terrible. Everything is going wrong (expounds on situation). How have you been?
    Fe: Errr, um, I'm sorry....well, I am sure things will get better for you... I am doing okay. The weather has been really hot though. Hey, I just saw that new movie, have you seen it?
    Fi: No, I can't enjoy anything because I feel so bad. The world is a blackhole, sucking my soul out.
    Fe: It's a funny movie. It will cheer you up! Well, hey, I gotta go now. Hope you feel better soon.
    (Fe walks away feeling bad for their friend, but annoyed to be burdened with their problems. Fi walks away feeling better about their life after venting, but annoyed that Fe brushed them off and won't open up).

    -------------

    Fe: You should call so-and-so because they've been depressed.
    Fi: I don't like them, and I don't care. Besides, they never call me and I've been depressed too.
    Fe: I know, but it would just be nice.
    Fi: Why should I be nice to someone I don't care about? You don't like so-and-so either.
    Fe: Because it's polite, and the right thing to do.
    Fi: That's fake! I hate phony politeness. The right thing is to show genuine concern only. It's patronizing to pity people.
    (Fi never calls. Fi has no friends and feels ignored. Fe calls everyone. Everyone likes Fe. Fe talks behind their back).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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