[With the disclaimer that I'm not reading many of the new posts here- I'm just responding to something I saw in yeghor's post.]
Honestly [MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION], I don’t think the introverted judgment in Ne/Se dom/aux “contains†much of anything- I think that’s an introverted perception thing, to “contain†previous assessments for reference/comparison. Introverted judgment is a means of assessing what's *right there*- and imo, Ne/Se dom/aux can be super judgmental (in the sense of having a strong negative opinion, or any really strong opinion)- but it’s often fleeting because they don’t have introverted perception to hold on to those assessments.
While many NPs seem to find some kind of absolution in the way the judgments quickly disappear- as if Pe dom/aux judgment is harmless because it’s so fleeting, and “it’s not even a ‘judgment’ so much as a ‘possibility’†(so they should be able to spew as much of it aloud as they see fit without there being any consequences)- assessments expressed aloud are still assessments expressed aloud, regardless of how fleeting they are. While it’s true that a single assessment may not last- the tendency to spew these fleeting assessments, when paired with an inflated sense of entitlement to directing the reality between oneself and others, is not fleeting and can be emotionally abusive in excess (no matter how much they try to get rid of the problem by throwing yet more fleeting assessments at it....because it's the tendency to compulsively throw fleeting assessments around to control shared reality in the first place which is the problem).
But anyway, if introverted judgment “contained†anything, then Pe doms/auxes would be more consistent.
Well ... I find Je as shallow, inconsistent and ill-informed as you find Pe. It's the germ of an idea I've been mulling over the last month or so. Just as I am attracted to holding the door open (Pe) Pi aux's and dom's are attracted to closing the door shut (Je). I know, I know, all Je types maintain that they are open to being convinced that they are wrong. (Key word convinced, because they seem to always present themselves as Right, that they have received enough information to fully justify a Je position.) Yet, in practice, this can be sketchy, due to a number of factors endemic to humanity - personal self-esteem, ego needs, situational awareness, self-awareness etc etc.
Judgements don't disappear. They evolve and deepen or are disproved and discarded. They are not articulated because to do so often feels premature, not because they are impermanent, they are simply imprecise, and thus, should be questioned. For example, I will share a bit of my cumulative Ji judgement of you and this post of yours today. You are still in a bad place emotionally. From a feelings-perspective, I sense much self-justified anger and even a kind of condescending indignation underneath your post. This is consistent with what I have sensed from you over the last several months. However, it feels more dug-in and self-righteous. You feel bolder and more prone to lash-out. You would do well to find an outlet for this, where you can vent some of these old, deeply felt hurts in a physical sense, like ecstatic dancing or martial arts. You will feel stronger for it and clear. The forum however, will not give you any release, even with some new-found protection. Now, because you have chosen to not communicate with me, I can't gather much more data than what I can sense of your inner realm. So, no way to verify or give you something more Ji-meaty. And I would usually not share this since it's not cooked yet. But, in the interest of understanding this stuff better, since Ji is generally invisible to the outer world, I'm putting it out here, there you go. At least I can share this out of the many interactions we have had thus far, therefore potentially increasing accuracy.
So, let's leave that. This kind of stuff feels troubling to share. Possibilities feel ok to share. Judgements demand consequent action, a course, ONE course, be set. Possibilities do not. There's a possibility my judgements are wrong, so better to leave it there then act from presumed certainty.
To see the coin from both sides, Pe types claim an openness and lack of guile in influencing someone else when in reality they are tailoring each moment to a relatively unforeseen yet kind of palpable end-point existing at least in the near future. Meaning, there's not this conscious ability to see a long-term outcome, but the short-term nudging of reality can lead somewhere that seems or feels correct, like knowing you are on the right road, but with no proof why you might feel that way. Plus, there are judgements and then there are JUDGEMENTS. A capital-letter style Ji JUDGEMENT is near-immovable. So Pe optimizes to end-points with some kind of relatively short-term stability yet holding long-term capital-letter judgements open.
eta: I've been watching myself to really examine closely how I seek to optimize the moment. It's been fascinating because I constantly monitor other people's inner states to try to optimize them too and help them hold open harmonious interpersonal relations between people. I am more influential than I believed.
I see the contrast so exquisitely diverging in my adult children. My INTJ daughter is usually planning 5 - 7 years into the future. My ESFP son, there's just today, literally. We've talked about it and he says he literally cannot envision beyond in-the-moment optimizing, geared to how he feels. He can at most look at something a few hours ahead of this moment. I suspect on a continuum, they each hold down one end of that, from super-future-planner to live-in-the-moment optimization. To suggest that he should be held accountable to the same kind of future "knowing" seems rather unfair to me when his wiring does not support this awareness. This is not to say he should not consider his actions and the possible outcomes of that, no! His Ni-inferior leads to all sorts of troubled and speculative doom-and-gloom scenarios. He does well to trust that his in-the-moment optimization and awareness of cause-effect do work well together, and that by focussing on NOW, his strength, some of the other pieces will just fit in quite naturally.
Now, I also know what's likely to come of some of this post. So, my message for those who are prone to rush to judgment, check them at the door. It's doubtful you have held the doors of your judgements open for as long as I have here.
eta:
I prefer ENFJ in this regards, because they're more forthcoming with their thought process, more likely to engage in a dialogue, rather than keep it in until the end. They're better able to communicate their feelings and thoughts, to their audience.
Agreed. Things burst out and get dealt with, usually very helpful.
After all, in response to an INFx inquiring about dating another INFx on here (they were a male/female couple) I gave some insight, paused and said "so basically just treat is like a lesbian relationship" or something along those lines.
