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  1. #841
    Dope& diamonds. Dyslexxie's Avatar
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    While I do love INFJs, they can sometimes drive me so crazy I experience more mood swings than Canadian weather. There's definitely a great deal of compatibility there and a chemistry if explored could result in fantastic synergy. The problem of course is the slow drawn out process INFJs enjoy applying to so many areas of their life (even though their mind may be buzzing at 100 mph, externally I find they often express very little), whereas as an ENTP I often pour my heart out, and unfortunately expect reciprocation, which an INFJ will rarely offer. After enough of that my impatience will kick in and there goes another one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    Also, ENTPs are the slowest to mature and the INFJ is of course the quickest so I think a 5 to 10 year age difference with the ENTP being older is ideal if not essential. The downside for the INFJ maturing so quickly is because you already feel so different and alone (the ENTP does as well but being the extrovert with an over sized ego they haven't noticed it yet and is enjoying still thinking they're better than everybody else) you also don't feel like you fit in with other people your age so by the time the ENTP has matured the INFJ is feeling jaded, frustrated and starting to let go of that ideal picture of love they've always had and can find in the ENTP.
    Of course you've thought it all out already though, because you already had a rebuttal to my argument years before I even had a chance to bring forth my argument.
    Unfortunately at this rate I'd have to either wait it out (not my forte), or date a 10 - 15 year old haha.
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  2. #842
    Anamolic Amalgamation Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexxie View Post
    While I do love INFJs, they can sometimes drive me so crazy I experience more mood swings than Canadian weather. There's definitely a great deal of compatibility there and a chemistry if explored could result in fantastic synergy. The problem of course is the slow drawn out process INFJs enjoy applying to so many areas of their life (even though their mind may be buzzing at 100 mph, externally I find they often express very little), whereas as an ENTP I often pour my heart out, and unfortunately expect reciprocation, which an INFJ will rarely offer. After enough of that my impatience will kick in and there goes another one.

    Of course you've thought it all out already though, because you already had a rebuttal to my argument years before I even had a chance to bring forth my argument.
    Unfortunately at this rate I'd have to either wait it out (not my forte), or date a 10 - 15 year old haha.
    I don't know what INFJ's you have been meeting. If an INFJ is at their best, I don't think it's buzzing at all, it's a beautiful on sync with nothingness as the abstractions are far too valuable to be put into energy-sucking thoughts. When I'm highly creative words come straight out of my mouth as for the split second as my tongue creates the words the image flashes in my head and I speak. It is both beautiful and frustrating a process that this intuitive process can't be clearly seen. But we're the closest to the unconscious as we can get though making us highly self-aware. I still haven't met anyone who is like me yet. Which is nice and annoying.

    I often seem to have more of the same problems, I vomit my feelings out via Fe strengthened by Ti and nothing comes from others. I'd think that the INFJ would be the listener to empathize with you deeply. Me and you got to talk about these 'INFJ's' if you allow yourself for me to hear at least the general details.
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  3. #843
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    The post needs a followup as it's complete and total hogwash! I wrote this based on idealistic principals and concepts with an underlying motive of pickup up INFJ chicks. In this case the reality of life, things, dynamics don't hold or to the underlying principles as people are more complex and the way our functions impact our actions are hard to quantify in some words in an online post. Been there, got the t-shirt and can definitively say that INFJs are on the short list of MBTI types I would never even think of dating and I don't even use MBTI as a partner selection tool. I would actually pick an ISFJ or INFP over an INFJ any day of the week which is a bold statement from an ENTP.

    INFJs make amazing friends, my closest friend is actually an INFJ and we were on the phone for 2 hours today, he's an absolutely amazing person. INFJs are wonderful therapists, counselors, healers, listeners, overall I highly enjoy them in my life and am thankful for the ones I know. That doesn't mean they make good romantic partners however and I have found them to be happier and more fulfilled either focused on their profession/passion (hopefully one and the same) and or with an INFP, INTJ, ISTJ, INTP, or other type that they accept as the type they are without expecting more and aren't as in-tuned to the INFJ as an ENTP is.
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  4. #844
    Member Florence Atley's Avatar
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    SamVega, idealism as a dating prop? Wow - you guys really are evil geniuses! I agree with you that romanticized notions are often disappointing, that MBTI is not the best judge of compatibility, and I can see how being too in tuned to another person's private thought life could get overbearing. And keep in mind that I'm new to MBTI, so I can't really discuss in depth concepts yet. With that said, I kind of want to do the INFJ thing and encourage you to reconsider the idealistic (pseudo or no ) notions of your original post before you write INFJs off completely. Here's why:

    No two INFJs or ENTPs will be the same, they just have similar mechanics. The specific desires and needs will be unique. I was thinking about an INFJ who longs for adventure and to have their ethical feathers ruffled to challenge them and make them feel alive. Living as a metal recluse and feeling responsible for solving the world's problems can get stuffy, and it would take a really unique person to address out inner landscape directly to challenge it. I was thinking of an ENTP who is a hopeless romantic at heart, and would benefit more than most other types from the INFJ sense of purity, passion and devotion. Especially the INFJs who secretly have a twisted sense of humor and endless patience to put up with any amount of crap from people as long as those people are sincere, loyal, intelligent and passionate (a rare occurrence, if you haven't noticed). In that case, the endless mental energy of the INFJ and the endless physical energy of the ENTP seems like the beginning of really great book.

    Of course, I don't think I've ever met an ENTP in real life
    You and I compose reality - the sharing of human intimacy, a topic whose depth takes endless breath to understand, though the bravest try through books. Yeah. We are all fans of decadence, but do know: what you know is incidental. Who is speaking? The truth speaks.
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  5. #845
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florence Atley View Post
    SamVega, idealism as a dating prop? Wow - you guys really are evil geniuses! I agree with you that romanticized notions are often disappointing, that MBTI is not the best judge of compatibility, and I can see how being too in tuned to another person's private thought life could get overbearing. And keep in mind that I'm new to MBTI, so I can't really discuss in depth concepts yet. With that said, I kind of want to do the INFJ thing and encourage you to reconsider the idealistic (pseudo or no ) notions of your original post before you write INFJs off completely. Here's why:

    No two INFJs or ENTPs will be the same, they just have similar mechanics. The specific desires and needs will be unique. I was thinking about an INFJ who longs for adventure and to have their ethical feathers ruffled to challenge them and make them feel alive. Living as a metal recluse and feeling responsible for solving the world's problems can get stuffy, and it would take a really unique person to address out inner landscape directly to challenge it. I was thinking of an ENTP who is a hopeless romantic at heart, and would benefit more than most other types from the INFJ sense of purity, passion and devotion. Especially the INFJs who secretly have a twisted sense of humor and endless patience to put up with any amount of crap from people as long as those people are sincere, loyal, intelligent and passionate (a rare occurrence, if you haven't noticed). In that case, the endless mental energy of the INFJ and the endless physical energy of the ENTP seems like the beginning of really great book.

    Of course, I don't think I've ever met an ENTP in real life
    He's probably just playing into your need to improve things via diplomatic discourse for his own child-like amusement.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
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  6. #846
    Member Florence Atley's Avatar
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    Please, oh please let that be true!! I expected ENTPs to be funny, but I didn't expect it to be an art-form.
    You and I compose reality - the sharing of human intimacy, a topic whose depth takes endless breath to understand, though the bravest try through books. Yeah. We are all fans of decadence, but do know: what you know is incidental. Who is speaking? The truth speaks.

  7. #847
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Subjective speculation that might provide some useful generalized info:

    I think I see some issues that involve the hetero male xNTP/female INFJ dynamic and the FeTi/TiFe dynamic. My xNTP has said that he observes and evaluates behavior. When I tell him things about me that I've spent a long time figuring out (for example, a need I have), he still needs to take the time to observe my behavior to confirm my conclusions for himself. This makes me feel unheard and can trigger feelings of not being trusted or believed. It also can have the side effect of me feeling like my needs are unimportant, since he doesn't start to change to meet them until after he has confirmed for himself.

    The good news is that, if I have patience, and if I stay consistent, he does eventually confirm and then do his darndest to meet my needs. The bad news is that I have the tendency to adjust instead of staying consistent because I perceive staying consistent as causing him and/or me discomfort. I have to learn to have patience and to deal with my own discomfort.

    How the male/female dynamic might be coming into play: He wants to take care of me and meet my needs, but he doesn't always understand what those needs are. He's going off of his own database until he gets to know me better. So, when a need I tell him about conflicts with what is already in his database, it causes blips for him and for me. His emotions come into play because he feels he's not successfully fulfilling his responsibilities as a man. Plus, when my needs are emotional, I touch upon an uncomfortable place for him. This can involve Ti/Fe also, because it seems to me he solves his emotional needs in a Ti way and he's finding that doesn't always work well in solving my emotional needs. Heck, I thought solving my emotional needs in a Ti way was the way to go, but it seems it is not, at least for me.
    Johari / Nohari

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    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  8. #848
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    to be free and to be purposeful at the same time is infinitely challenging. to be either, on some level, you also have to be free of yourself too. to me, this is where the rubber often meets the road.

    ep-ij takes a tremendous amount of work, unless you simply want to outsource a big part of yourself to the other person, never really deepening your ability to appreciate them on their own terms rather than just in terms of what they can do for you.

    w an estp, in your same quadra, you can just like sense the currents, bc they don't require any translation, without necessarily understanding (just a kind of strange attunement). the gift of ntp-nfj, to me, is that you can learn, from scratch, another complete understanding, in a way that works outward from the most useful shared foundations, depth of vision with the same constructive tools which makes collaborative work so much more responsive, even if impatience and creative process expectations often don't align without great self-awareness and emotionally centered communication.

    as partners, infjs usually bring very soft and undefined, sometimes unpredictable boundaries with them, which can be incredibly challenging for others. i would wonder if most of the non sp (self-preservational instinct) infjs end up with other F types. this is probably quite influenced by gender and social resources, among other things which would precipitate and support the kind of development needed to develop self-sustaining, easy-to-live-by boundaries.

    just learning how to meet one's own emotional needs and facilitate a social existence in which that fluidly happens is kind of a weird and beautiful art.
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  9. #849
    Member Florence Atley's Avatar
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    @the state i am in (I love your avatar! I saw them last year in Indianapolis and it was one of the best nights of my life!!) - I agree with you that the challenges are great, but the reward is more complete understanding. I would go two steps further: to learn someone who excels at your weaknesses helps you grow, and can balance you out as a person. For example, whenever I take the personality test, I often get like 100% Ni. As in, my S is practically not there at all!! Not good! I am incredibly grateful to people who can bring me back down to earth. Although feeling types make awesome friends, in my INFJ idealism I usually find myself choosing partners who inspire me with their insightful problem-solving abilities. In a way, Ti inspires my Fe more than Fi would... it seems more active and even more idealistically pure to me (not sure if I'm making sense). And I often prefer a Ti type to a Fe type, because if I really want to save the world, I'm gonna need some new skills My Fe is all about choosing to help people over personal comfort, right? I usually prefer to be stretched and inspired rather than to be perfectly comfortable (then I run to my study to hide and recharge, of course).

    Lastly, any old Ti or Te won't work, because the person has to be able to stomach and even love to study really complex weird people. A lot of thinking types don't have the patience for this. In my experience, INTJ and INTPs fit this bill pretty well, although they are sometimes a little rigid in their beliefs which makes it difficult to please them and remain a free-spirit at the same time. ENTPs (to me) seem like the natural choice for INFJs who want to save the world but frequently get stuck in fantasy. Also, their sense of humor is so helpful if you feel the weight of the world's problems all the time.

    I'm married to someone who tests as an INTJ. He inspires me and we can talk for hours, solving the world's problems The thing is, it can be challenging to develop intimacy, and if both parties are not willing to do the extra legwork to meet in the middle on relational and emotional issues, the results can be disastrous. The interesting thing is, I'm pretty sure he was an ENTP in the beginning of our relationship. Back then, when he was actively doing what he loved - making movies, he had plenty of patience to stretch his comfort zone. Right now when he's stuck behind a desk rather than being highly active in projects, he's so drained he doesn't have the patience for it at all. I don't know if this is due to a difference between INTJs and ENTPs, or if this is just an issue of being 'caught in the grip.'

    My conclusion? INFJs can change the world with an INTJ/ENTP by their side, but it takes more work than usual to maintain intimacy. If one party quits doing the work, the explosion can get pretty ugly. But then again, isn't this true for any relationship? I guess to me, the choice seems to depend on priorities - is the possibility of loftier achievements worth the extra work in intimacy...
    You and I compose reality - the sharing of human intimacy, a topic whose depth takes endless breath to understand, though the bravest try through books. Yeah. We are all fans of decadence, but do know: what you know is incidental. Who is speaking? The truth speaks.

  10. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    I wrote this based on idealistic principals and concepts with an underlying motive of pickup up INFJ chicks.
    I knew this the first time I read this thread title. Didn't want to make an assumption though. Today is the first time I've actually read the OP. Then I saw this post and my assumption was confirmed.

    You sneaky devil.

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