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  1. #71
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    I love this thinking! The joys of being young! What I say to you, find yourself a nice ESFJ, they have amazing hearts and with that being your priority it should be easy. Use MBTI as a tool to smooth out the rough spots, it's going to be a tool you use OFTEN so you will become well versed, give me a shout in a few years after the divorce to ask where you went wrong.

    I think it's safe to assume different people are different ways for different reasons and see the world through many different eyes. MBTI does a wonderful job of getting you close to balanced in a relationship the rest is up to the two individuals involved.

    And your "rotten INFJ" argument is like the whole "size doesn't matter it's how you work it debate" that never thinks about having the size and knowing how to work it. Sure I would rather be with a healthy well rounded and self aware ISJF than a meth head abusive INFJ but I'm not saying all of any type is always any way so the topic is moot.
    Well just offering another perspective, but it looks like you've already considered it.

    cheers !

  2. #72
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    You have clearly been on typec enough to know a thing or two so I'm not going to go into the fundamentals I'm just going to assume you know. I will only say that I know more than one INFJ/INTJ couple, fairly common when you factor in them being two of the three least common types. By contrast I don't know a single Ne/Ne couple and it would honestly disturb me, other Ne doms feel like family to me.

    I've heard a lot of INFJs say "gross", "that's nasty" or "that's like incest" when talking about Ni/Ni pairings. To partly use something Synarch once said I/I couples have WAY TOO much self and E/E couples don't have enough.

    I think you should get two magnets to illustrate this example, try putting the two -/- together and see how that works, now give the +/+ a try and you'll understand why you see two Is together but never two Es, because with the Es it's very clear there's an issue where as with the two Is they feel safe in a lazy sort of way. Now try the -/+ and you will better understand something that was very clear to Jung.

    As for the introverting/extroverting where it relates to a Ne dom. People WHY ARE YOU NOT GETTING THIS! The four most introverted of all the MBTI types are:

    ENTP
    INFP
    INTJ
    INTP

    Notice, you as an INFJ with a secondary Fe function don't make that list. Most introverted would be a Ti/Ne (that's makes perfect sense followed by a Ni/Te, Fi/Ne and coming in as the most introverted of all the extroverts...Ne/Ti.

    I'm saying this because I keep hearing the same thing over and over again about ENTPs and it makes me question if the people saying it actually know one or if they just met one that was extroverting.

    Picture the ENTP like the turbo charged introvert, it's there when we need it but sometimes you seriously need to talk me into using it.

    Hell, Sunday I went out with my INFJ friend at a club and he was hanging in there, I had to walk out just to get away from people cause I couldn't deal with them anymore.
    umm, you can say whatever you want, but people are recognized as introverted based on a myriad of ways
    1. dominant function reliance
    2. need for alone time/mental processing time
    3. feeling alienated/drained from other people
    4. preference for non-human activities

    the basic criteria in mb is that you have a more specific, more tightly integrated perceptual framework. it is just tighter and more localized. more detail-oriented, more concentrated, and as such, it gets more disoriented jumping around from thing to thing. it is less go with the flow and more focused on its own inner world.

    people are different. a 5w4 infj is often more introverted than a 9w1. and more introverted than a 4w3. your argument makes no sense. nor does the magnet metaphor, you can use that for any pair of oppositions. there is nothing that says introverts repel each other (which two negatives do!). it's just wrong. i like other introverts, they know their shit and aren't so pushy. i like other extroverts who know how to respect others. it's all in the particulars. you can point to some sort of imagined balance, but do the same for S vs N, F vs T, and J vs P as well. there are so many possible permutations that can work if need be, or if a particular type of balance is necessary. i find F vs T balance more important in a serious relationship for me than i vs e (f can get overwhelmed and need to get back on track by focusing on a few basic T causal relationships to get the ball rolling).

    in my situation, we both like spending much time alone together. one on one. i have no problem working on my other interests, finding new friends, meeting people, etc. chalking i-i relationships up to laziness and complacency shows how ridiculous your ideas actually are. to say that it isn't challenging or doesn't promote growth makes it seem as if your growth as a human being is totally dependent upon one other person to provide it. as if you expect that person to MAKE you grow up. healthy relationships occur when people fucking grow up, period. deal with their shit and move on. perhaps introverts just have less desire to dominate and control other people than you can imagine. on that note, your infj friend may not be more extroverted than you, he may just be a much nicer person and less childish when he isn't getting his way.

    as i said before, i find the best fits for me to be with other dominant intuitives. it's all about communication. being able to communicate what you want to say, to share your thoughts, feelings, and impressions, and to be balanced enough as a couple to support each other and bring out the best in one another. why you find this irritating, i have no idea.

  3. #73
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahNounBlah View Post
    Does he dislike your friends? I can be very inattentive to people I dislike.



    He seems immature. Is he very young?




    Thats a good question, I dont know if he likes my friends. He never gives me a clear answer. But it doesnt seem like it, now that I think of it.


    Lol yes we're both young, 18. But sometimes I feel like his mommy. On the other hand, there are alot of things in which he has a greater depth of understanding then I

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    Wow, that was long, I wonder if a single person will read that. Oh well, it was too much effort to write not to share on here.
    you're really wonderful at explaining things.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladypinkington View Post
    sorry I don't know how to really multi quote so I responded in bold and bigger print within the quote thingie.

    there is so much more I wanted to say yes that is so right to but I was afraid it would take too long,lol. Great points. Nailed them on the head. I also think it works because ENTP's and INFJ's are similar enough that they can understand each other and are able to bring a sense of belonging and an at home feeling- a sense of completeness together the infj intot he heart and the entp with the mind but different enough that they keep each other mystified and interested.



    Thats amazingly similar to my realtionship with my ENTP boyfriend =]
    Another thing I like about us is, we have a similar sense of humor. (which really isnt that funny to most people). I told him he was satan the other day, with the most serious look on my face. We both starting cracking up afterwards. We are such an awkward couple, but it works =].

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    First off I need to add a caveat, I'm a single ENTP so maybe my intentions are to try and swoon one of you INFJs but what's wrong with that.

    No really (well, additionally), I wrote this to get these thoughts out of my head and thought I would share because there does seem to be some confusion about how these functions work and just what it is to be an introvert or extrovert.

    I will say there has to be a huge level of self awareness on the ENTP side, something I think is rare before 30 and I wouldn't trust a young ENTP myself so a word of caution to any heartbreak that may arise from pursuits of young ENTPs.

    To fully explain this I need to go more in depth on MBTI itself so I'm sorry in advance if you already know this as well as for my inability to be terse. MBTI is not just 8 letters and being an INFJ for example doesn't mean only what the letters say at face value. As an example an ENFJ is not just the extroverted version of the INFJ, they are VERY different. The two middle letters are the main focus each with an extroverted or introverted possibility. So you can have Ne, Ni, Te, Ti, Fe, Fi, Se and Si in many different orders. To give an example, Se is very sensory based, an ESFP would lead with this function as their main way (or least energy) of processing the world and making choices. To stereo type, the ESFP is the classic sorority girl who will date a douche bag asshole based only on his looks. In the case of the ESFP this Se function is followed up with Fi which is about internal feelings, when used correctly this translates to a self aware person, when wrong very selfish. Also the reason the ESFP is all about "me" and what is everybody going to do for "me". What a messed up function (Se) to lead with right!

    Now if you move on to a person with a dominant function of Ti such as with an INTP, you have the classic perfectionist engineer with tape on their glasses who doesn't even notice how messed up their hair is. Mainly because they lead Ti, Ne, Si and Fe leaving them with sensortardation (you and I have this as well) because we don't notice surroundings and do stupid things like walk into closed doors or forget we just brushed our teeth and brush them again, this is due to how in our own heads we are, always thinking. So again the INTP totally lacking the Se function would be oblivious to their appearance where as the ESFP would care only about their appearance.

    With that said, the INFJ is Ni, Fe, Ti and lastly Se leaving them with a dominant (or no energy to use) function of Ni that generates endless possibilities in an internal world. This is the reason they can picture things clearly and in such detail when they read (almost as if they're watching a movie in their head), this is why they can be alone in their own mind for long amounts of time and never get bored. With a secondary function of Fe, this is what allows them such an amazing ability to read people and is also what makes them such an enigma, they generate all these possibilities yet follow them up with Fe, a function that's VERY people based. They feel SO amazingly deep because they can visualize what other people feel in an endless world with no boundaries or rules that they haven't given it.

    To move on the ENTP is Ne, Ti, Fe and Si leaving them a dominant function of Ne, so they're as vivid as the INFJ except in the external world, their fantasies are about building things and with any and every thing they look at they wonder how it works and if they can make it better. They follow this up with Ti so they take all these possibilities and filter them with internal thinking. They can look at something very simple, imagine it 500 other ways and quickly think about what would work the best. It also affords them the luxury of being extremely quick witted and good at debates, because they can generate 50 possibilities and figure out what works best before most people can think of one. So if INFJs are the enigma having the Ni function followed by Fe (one being so internal the other being so people driven) ENTPs would be the paradox in that their first two functions are not people based and even though their dominant function is an extroverted one it's the extroverted function that doesn't need other people, leaving them the most introverted of all the extroverts. In fact with INFJs secondary function of Fe they're more extroverted than an ENTP although it doesn't look that way on the surface. Picture the INFJ as water dripping into a bucket, picture the ENTP when the bucket finally tips.

    The ENTP/INFJ dynamic is so amazing because if you look at how we look at the world it's:

    Ni Fe Ti Se
    Ne Ti Fe Si

    What that boils down to is picture a sock and somebody reaching in and pulling it inside out. ENTPs have the same depth INFJs do in a different way, ENTPs are the same as INFJs yet opposed in a way that is more reversed than opposite. The functions line up in a way that leaves both feeling totally understood yet with endless learning possibilities and total balance. They're like mental playgrounds for one another and it never gets old because both worlds are based in endless possibilities. This same dynamic holds true for the ENFP/INTJ.

    Where the four dominant intuitives differer so much from other types (and why this dynamic is so interesting among the ENTP/INFJ) is our satisfaction (or mostly, lack of) in relationships due to our desire for a deep mental connection, both are looking for mind mates and both want the ideal relationship. Overall we (dominant intuitives) have the most consistent moral systems and are most likely to be disappointed if someone falls short of those moral standards. Both are very growth oriented, passionate, deep and unwilling to be in a relationship of routine that gets old and lazy in time. You do not "get", "capture", "confine", "own" or "cage" an ENTP, ENFP, INFJ or INTJ, those are the four types that pick you.

    The issue with the difficulty in starting an ENTP/INFJ relationship isn't limited to one thing. First off, neither is used to being understood so there's this never ending clarification and "know what I'm saying", "if that makes sense" issue. Both are in dismay somebody else understands with such ease. However because we take different paths to the same place we'll ask things like "why'd you do that" just to understand, when explained the other person totally gets it but because we're so used to the same thing happening with a different outcome it preys on our frustration or issues of never feeling understood. Secondly the INFJ is hard to get out of their shell and the ENTP is quick to run back to theirs. The INFJ has this feeling initially that they'll never get the space they want because they see the ENTP extroverting and the ENTP swears you're not interested. The INFJ will have this constant push/pull I want it no I don't issue and have to fight to get the flood gate open. The ENTP will have this run while you still can issue and have a tough time keeping the flood gate from shutting. Both speak truly and honestly but have a tendency to try reading between the lines with the other when there's nothing there to be read. We apply our own motivations to the other persons actions which is never correct (different path to the same place) and this all takes some excellent and very open communication. These issues don't last long however so at least that's a plus. We're both a type that never really lets people in and we're both amazing at reading people so we're faced with an issue of holy shit this is going to hurt if it doesn't work so both need to want love more than the fear of having it. We're both so whole alone but together there's an overlapping of abilities that gives the other a peephole (I read that four times and kept thinking there was a missing p) into a whole different world. I can tell you right off the bat, if I (as an ENTP) had internal issues I was hiding I wouldn't even consider pursuing an INFJ until I had my head on right because I know it would be picked up on instantly.

    There two things I would like to add while I'm thinking about them. I've compared the ENTP and INFJ to opposite sides of the same coin saying we're exactly the same yet totally different.

    I would say the ENTP and INFJ are both the oddity of the MBTI world on the introverted and extroverted side. We don't really fit in anyplace and are the two types that most often feel quirky, misunderstood and like there is no way anybody will every accept much less understand and love how different we are.

    Anyway, what dawned on me is the false low score we often get on our E function. My dominant Ne function is very high yet I will sometimes only score 54% E and on occasion I will test as INTP. This is because depending on the test I will answer all questions like "you feel comfortable in a crowd" with a yes (standard extrovert answer) yet also answer all questions like "you require a lot of alone time" with a yes, standard introvert answer. This conflict is due to leading Ne, an extroverted function that doesn't need people at all.

    By contrast and backing up everything else I've said. INFJs often falsely test as INFPs, because while the ENTP is the most introverted extrovert the INFJ is the least orderly J. With MBTI these are the only two anomalies like this I'm aware of.

    I have never probed enough on this topic to explain why this is the case with INFJs and that J function but I do find it interesting and in line with everything else I've said.

    Also, ENTPs are the slowest to mature and the INFJ is of course the quickest so I think a 5 to 10 year age difference with the ENTP being older is ideal if not essential. The downside for the INFJ maturing so quickly is because you already feel so different and alone (the ENTP does as well but being the extrovert with an over sized ego they haven't noticed it yet and is enjoying still thinking they're better than everybody else) you also don't feel like you fit in with other people your age so by the time the ENTP has matured the INFJ is feeling jaded, frustrated and starting to let go of that ideal picture of love they've always had and can find in the ENTP.

    Damn this was long, sorry, only a saint or INFJ (same thing I guess less the dark humor) would read all of this.




    I am an INFJ, and my boyfriend is an ENTP. I would like to say that many of the problems/ triumphs of our realtionship are correctly represented in what you said. One of our biggest problems though, is his need for lots and lots of different partners. Its very hard to keep him down to one person. He only reserves his true feelings about me when I leave, or he's in trouble, or I threaten to leave. He also likes to debate, which I hate. I always let him win because I think its dumb. He always tries to one-up me.

    About the communication between us, Since ENTPs and INFJs are like mirror opposites, our communication is short and very simple. Almost like cave men, its like what do say is one thing but what we dont say is more. Our similar communication styles have brought us a wide range of awkward moments. Such as this one, in the midst of one of our heated verbal lashings :

    ENTP boyfriend: "Look babe, if I had.. 10 bikes, you would be the best one. The shiniest one, the one that I would take out all the time, and care about, and pimp out, and fix up everytime it getz even a tiny scratch on it"

    INFJ girlfriend: ....So all you want to do is ride me?!?

    ENTP: Very clever, but not what I meant.

  8. #78
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustmite30 View Post
    ENTP boyfriend: "Look babe, if I had.. 10 bikes, you would be the best one. The shiniest one, the one that I would take out all the time, and care about, and pimp out, and fix up everytime it getz even a tiny scratch on it"

    INFJ girlfriend: ....So all you want to do is ride me?!?

    ENTP: Very clever, but not what I meant.
    Well, as long as he's okay with you having other riders when he is not around, it should be all good.

  9. #79
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustmite30 View Post
    About the communication between us, Since ENTPs and INFJs are like mirror opposites, our communication is short and very simple. Almost like cave men, its like what do say is one thing but what we dont say is more.
    Yes that's how it is with my ENTP.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Well, as long as he's okay with you having other riders when he is not around, it should be all good.
    Lol. Well, he's quite the double-standard type of person. It's okay for him, but when I do... then he gets jealous. We're still trying to figure that part out. I think our differences are getting the best of us.

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